Not sure if I can call myself "Christian" anymore.

[jgredline]

I see what you are saying now. That's not just lack of Faith, that is the Adversary using those feelings against you. I've been there, in a way. We all have. Orion, read my siggy.

Orion
First and foremost, I pray the the peace who is Christ Jesus will fill you with his joy....I believe Vic hit the nail on the head....It is the evil one who comes to kill, steal and destroy...He is evil and there is nothing good in him..He takes pleasure in seeing you doubt your POSITION in Christ.... God gave you authority as his Child to Rebuke the evil ones armies in Jesus name and I suggest ''you'' take that leap of faith and rebuke them....Rebuke them out loud and tell them to leave...Anoint your home with oil and consecrate it to the Lord Jesus Christ....Everything you need is right there in the word of All Mighty God...Read it and receive its promises...God did not give you a Spirit of fear, but of Power, Love and a ''sound mind''.....

You ask for the supernatural...I can tell you, that I have seen things and been though things, that you don't even want to know....The Lord Jesus Christ will not give you more than u can handle...

You ask why does Gods will not get done in your life? Well for one, we have to live by the choices ''we'' make...We are not puppets and God is Not pulling strings...Secondly a Child of God will indeed persevere to the very end...God is 100% sovereign in the life of the believer...so what ever Gods will is for you, it will come to pass...it is simply a matter of How, when, where...

You said you ''done'' something very terrible...Orion...In Gods eyes, no sin is worse than any other...The devil will have you believe otherwise...Who does Jesus say he is????Oh yes, the ''father of lies''....

Listen, if you would like to talk or Pray over the phone, send me a PM and I will give you my numbers.....You are not alone and your loved very much...
God bless you...
javier

 

[jgredline]

Orion
I posted this in another thread and have not had time to edit it..Perhaps it will help explain or steer you in the right direction....

As Vic said...and I have said a few different times...How does God get the ''most'' glory? By him imputing his saving grace on folks or by folks choosing him? By folks choosing him, will indeed give God more Glory...It is the Holy Spirit who ''wooooos'' people to himself and it is the Holy Spirit who gives people eyes to hear and ears to see.....If it is not a work of the HS then man on his own will not choose God...The scriptures are clear on this.....

So is God sovereign over all his creation? ''YES'' and NO.. oH oh Javier what is this madness your speaking now? .....Allow me to explain how this all works without the bible contradicting itself in the way full blown Calvinism does...As many of you know I do not believe that a Born Again Christian can loose his salvation...It ''can't happen'' The bible clearly teaches this...But if we have ''free will'' then we can loose it; right?...Let me explain...

But here is the thing....Once we become born again, we are NO LONGER OURS...We belong to Jesus...We are now one of his sheep...Jesus promised he will not loose a single one....God is completely sovereign in the life of the ''believer''....Once we are born again and are his, The Holy Spirit by whom we are sealed by will make sure we persevere to the very end....How can this happen....????Because ''the believer no longer has free will''....

But javier are you saying that you no longer sin?????...What I am saying is that ''my spirit'' no longer sins, but the flesh will continue to sin as I go through my sanctification process and ''IF'' i am truly born again the flesh will sin less and less as time passes...A person who is born again will not live in sin...A person who is born again will not plan to sin....Does this still happen??????

Yes, but there will be consequences to pay....I will make up an example...
''Suppose'' I where to plan to go to a strip club...What would happen?
On my way there, I would be convicted by the Holy Spirit....Suppose I ignored the HS and went...
1) I would get caught, by say a friend at church or my wife...
2) Nobody would ever know, but would feel guilt that would tear me up inside and make me sick...The waring that Paul speaks off in Romans 8...
3) I would walk away and say...Boy this was cool, I can't wait to come back...in which case, I would say that I was NOT born again...If there is no war, then there is no HS....it is that simple......

So a Believer does not have ''free will'' in a sense that a non believer does...
If the believer had no free will at all, then even the flesh would not sin....But who here can say that their flesh never sins???????

Let me give one more example and then I will get off my soap box...
This is for the believer....
Now that I belong to Jesus and I no longer have free will in the same way a pagan does, how does this work?.....
If it is Gods will for Javier to be a Pastor, Javier will be a pastor....
Let me explain...Lets say I was praying...God; What would you have me do for you???God tells me, I want u to be a pastor and take care of my sheep...
I say, no thnaks God, I want to go to school and be a doctor...God will say OK, But 8 years later I am struggling through school and can't pass the exams and so finally through much hard work and grief over the years I finally make it....Then I get to see my first patient....Hey it is my PASTOR...How cool....I get to take care of my pastor...BUT..I make a mistake and end up prescribing the wrong medication and ''kill my pastor''...
The next thing you know I get fired and 2 years later as I breezed through seminary, I am now a pastor... For the same church that I killed there pastor...Go figure....Had I listened to God, I would have saved me 10 years of grief....

One thing that is sad, is when non believers will pray for what ever it is in the hopes that God will answer their prayers and as we all know, God does not even hear them...They may as well pray to a tree...God is sovereign over all his creation in that if he pulled his common Grace, then literally all hell will break loose...and you know what folks..This day is coming...

Comments welcome...I have had this in my head since this debate satrted, but nobody took the bait...Really we never even got though round 1...

Very good Javier.

But here is the thing....Once we become born again, we are NO LONGER OURS...We belong to Jesus...We are now one of his sheep...Jesus promised he will not loose a single one....God is completely sovereign in the life of the ''believer''....Once we are born again and are his, The Holy Spirit by whom we are sealed by will make sure we persevere to the very end....How can this happen....????Because ''the believer no longer has free will''....

Let me add a little historical aspect to this:

A shepherd would go to great lengths to keep any of his sheep from getting lost.; even if it meant finding the stray sheep, break its leg so it can't wander and carry it if he must.

Think about that when reading Matthew 18:11-14.

Also consider this:

Matthew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Jesus appears to even be condoning saving the stray sheep on a Sabbath! Wow! That's how important we are to Him!

Excellent description of God's Truth!!!!!!

I am in total agreement with you on everything you have stated.

To clarify my point on freewill is that all believers choose to walk in the spirit or to walk in the flesh, and just as an unbeliever can reject the calling of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit reveals the spiritual truth to him, so, too, can a believer not follow the guidence of the Holy Spirit; thus grieving Him.

Also, if a believer rejects the call of God on his life, I believe that, just as you say, dire times will befall him, even to the point of being killed; however, if God's sovereignty is to be what it truly is, when God wants Samson to destroy the Philistines, it will be done if Solomon acts on his faith (walking in the spirit). Samson could have decided to be a complainer of being in his circumstances and just ended up being killed as he was bound with no strength, or he could have repented and gone to God in prayer and asked for strength.

As always, you and I have the unity of the Spirit and see things through the truth of God's Word, even though we live in this sinful flesh.

God bless you today,
Michael

 

[Orion]

Orion
First and foremost, I pray the the peace who is Christ Jesus will fill you with his joy....I believe Vic hit the nail on the head....It is the evil one who comes to kill, steal and destroy...He is evil and there is nothing good in him..He takes pleasure in seeing you doubt your POSITION in Christ.... God gave you authority as his Child to Rebuke the evil ones armies in Jesus name and I suggest ''you'' take that leap of faith and rebuke them....Rebuke them out loud and tell them to leave...Anoint your home with oil and consecrate it to the Lord Jesus Christ....Everything you need is right there in the word of All Mighty God...Read it and receive its promises...God did not give you a Spirit of fear, but of Power, Love and a ''sound mind''.....

You ask for the supernatural...I can tell you, that I have seen things and been though things, that you don't even want to know....The Lord Jesus Christ will not give you more than u can handle...

You ask why does Gods will not get done in your life? Well for one, we have to live by the choices ''we'' make...We are not puppets and God is Not pulling strings...Secondly a Child of God will indeed persevere to the very end...God is 100% sovereign in the life of the believer...so what ever Gods will is for you, it will come to pass...it is simply a matter of How, when, where...

You said you ''done'' something very terrible...Orion...In Gods eyes, no sin is worse than any other...The devil will have you believe otherwise...Who does Jesus say he is????Oh yes, the ''father of lies''....

Listen, if you would like to talk or Pray over the phone, send me a PM and I will give you my numbers.....You are not alone and your loved very much...
God bless you...
javier

I don't think I said anything about me doing something very bad. If I did, I'm sorry. The thing that was bad was what my ex wife did to me. But I have had these thoughts before everything happened, yet still holding on to God all that time. Even now, I still hold to it. . . . as I can see it. And to be honest, a lot of the mainstream Christian doctrines are falling by the wayside.

I'm not a bible literalist. Many of the Christian doctrines that most Christians hold as literal, I don't. And one of them is a completely all consuming evil being called The Devil. I believe that there are evil beings out there, but much of our own self is evil enough to not need any "evil spiritual being's help". Case in point, . . . the selfishness of my ex which caused the end to a beautiful relationship solely because she let herself be influenced by stupid friends and an even stupider guy, and she bought it all, because she tried to find happiness in other people.

I'm getting off track, I think. As for "rebuking the devil from my house", and doing so out loud, I gotta say that it won't happen. I would be so out of character that I would never take myself serious in attempting that. I'm turning out to be less of a "black and white" type person.

I'm still on the good side, though.

 

[Drew]

Hello Orion (and others):

I am sorry to hear that you are suffering.

I have come to reject a certain widely held belief about the nature of our personal "relationship" with God. I believe that the claim that God "talks to us" or can even be discerned as a palpable "other" is generally untrue. In other words, I think we have invented the idea that a relationship with God will be a "felt experience" in the specific sense that we should "hear God's voice", in any sense whatsoever (I am not just talking about a literal voice) or that we will "feel His presence". I have not yet expressed this view in these forums and expect that it will not be well received when I do.

I am a tad older than you (still on the south side of 50) and have had some life crises of my own. My experience is baldly and plainly this: God does not talk to me in the form of "an inner voice" or through any identifiable mechanism. That's the "bad" news. Nevertheless, I think that God is very real does indeed interact with me, but the "language" of that interaction is the content of my life experiences as specifically viewed in light of the "stories" of Scripture.

In short, I think that God "talks to us" specifically through the tangible events of our real nuts and bolts lives. On the one hand, my view may seem to rob the content of Christian experience of all "mystical" content. Fair enough, but I have to respect the reality of my experience - and in my experience, there are no tangible "experiences" of God that are unmediated - no clear voice "in my mind", no "emotional" experiences, etc. I believe that God relates to us through good old "life experience".

As a result of coming to this belief, I no longer despair of the silence "in my head" when I ask God to speak to me. Instead I focus on the "lessons of life", beleiving that "there are no coincidences" and that God works in the world to reveal himself to us through the material world of people, events, and experiences. Another way of expressing this view is as follows: I try to determine what "story" I am in, believing that Scriptural themes are continually echoed in the content of real life experience. This is how I think God talks to us - by putting us in "stories" that play out in the real world.

Why do I post this in response to your situation? Well, I want to suggest that perhaps we have incorrect expectations that God will reveal Himself in "mystical" ways. Perhaps God is really speaking to you in the middle of your trial but the way that He does this may not be what what you have come to expect. However, I have not gone through the same trial that you have and I would not dare to "tell you how to deal with it". I just submit this for your consideration, as a fellow voyager along the road less travelled.

 

[jgredline]

I don't think I said anything about me doing something very bad. If I did, I'm sorry. The thing that was bad was what my ex wife did to me. But I have had these thoughts before everything happened, yet still holding on to God all that time. Even now, I still hold to it. . . . as I can see it. And to be honest, a lot of the mainstream Christian doctrines are falling by the wayside.

Orion..First I miss spoke about you doing anything bad..I apologize for that..

I'm not a bible literalist. Many of the Christian doctrines that most Christians hold as literal, I don't. And one of them is a completely all consuming evil being called The Devil. I believe that there are evil beings out there, but much of our own self is evil enough to not need any "evil spiritual being's help". Case in point, . . . the selfishness of my ex which caused the end to a beautiful relationship solely because she let herself be influenced by stupid friends and an even stupider guy, and she bought it all, because she tried to find happiness in other people.

Well, unfortunately there is nothing that I can say that will bring you any comfort....In fact it is quite the other way around...If you do not believe in all consuming evil being called The Devil, then how can you believe there is a God? That is illogical....You where asking about faith and supernatural things, but I can assure you, it is not going to happen...You will not experience the Joy of being a Child of God until you surrender your life over to him 100% and part of that is believing him in his promises...Do your prayers feel like they are bouncing off the wall???

I'm getting off track, I think. As for "rebuking the devil from my house", and doing so out loud, I gotta say that it won't happen. I would be so out of character that I would never take myself serious in attempting that. I'm turning out to be less of a "black and white" type person.

Exactly my point...If you are not a child of God and you where to try and do this, then you will likely end up worse...The reason you don't see God working in your life is because I believe you are not his...I base my believe in reading your posts here...I pray and hope that I am wrong in this...But if I am right, then you need to start to get your life in order and it starts by getting on your knees before all mighty God....

I'm still on the good side, though.

And this is the problem....Problem is that scripture teaches that there is not one who is Good, no not one...This is why we need Christ, so that when God sees us, he sees Jesus righteousness and not ours, because there in none who is righteous, no not one....

If I have offended you, I apologize and ask for forgiveness...But I had to speak what I feel is the truth as ultimately, I am accountable to God....

 

[Vic C.]

Why do I post this in response to your situation? Well, I want to suggest that perhaps we have incorrect expectations that God will reveal Himself in "mystical" ways. Perhaps God is really speaking to you in the middle of your trial but the way that He does this may not be what what you have come to expect. However, I have not gone through the same trial that you have and I would not dare to "tell you how to deal with it". I just submit this for your consideration, as a fellow voyager along the road less traveled.

Thanks Drew. I'd like to complement your last paragraph with this verse;

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Be still and know that I am God. Part of that "know" comes through hearing, hence the "Be still...". Often times we cannot hear HIM through all the noise and clutter in our head and in our lives. It's not that HE's no longer there; He Never budges. It's we that will move from HIM. Sometimes we need to just stop running, sit down, meditate and bask in HIS creation. Not worship it, but just appreciate it for what it is and WHO created it. Often times I sit and listen to the birds and know that not a single chirp would be possible if not for the Almighty.

HE is faithful; HE has to be. It would be against his nature to be otherwise.

I'm getting off track, I think. As for "rebuking the devil from my house", and doing so out loud, I gotta say that it won't happen. I would be so out of character that I would never take myself serious in attempting that. I'm turning out to be less of a "black and white" type person.

When in this state of mind, nothing is off track. If it's something you need to get out; shout it out. Never say never. I "never" thought I would become that which I used to despise; an apologetic, evangelical Christian. :o You say it would be out of character; which character is that? Your "old" character? It doesn't exist. You are a new creature; a new creation in the eyes of the Lord.

I'm doing things I thought would never be possible. I had to let go of "myself"; sometimes on a daily basis! I want to leave here with something from the Peterson Message Bible; which I rarely quote:

James 4:7-10 (The Message)

7-10 So let God work his will in you. Yell a loud no to the Devil and watch him scamper. Say a quiet yes to God and he'll be there in no time. Quit dabbling in sin. Purify your inner life. Quit playing the field. Hit bottom, and cry your eyes out. The fun and games are over. Get serious, really serious. Get down on your knees before the Master; it's the only way you'll get on your feet.

 

[Orion]

Then perhaps I'm not His after all, if that's the litmus test. It's not that I don't want to be God's, but if I'm expected to "give myself 100%", then I'm pretty certain that I won't be able to. In fact, I question whether anyone can. A person who give himself 100% will no longer fall to sin. . . if he/she does, they weren't giving 100% were they?

And even if I WERE to give 100% all the time, . . . that righteousness is nothing more than "filthy rags" anyway. Nothing I do will make me good in God's eyes, which is where Grace comes in. And I accept that Grace into my life. Does that mean I'm going to be an evangelic apologetic Christian? Probably not. But at least I'm going to be honest about who I am. I'm not one of the "super Christians". I may never be. But by Grace, . . .thank God I don't really have to be.

Blessings all!

 

[jgredline]

Then perhaps I'm not His after all, if that's the litmus test. It's not that I don't want to be God's, but if I'm expected to "give myself 100%", then I'm pretty certain that I won't be able to. In fact, I question whether anyone can. A person who give himself 100% will no longer fall to sin. . . if he/she does, they weren't giving 100% were they?

I take it you did not read my long post where I did address this very thing...
Giving yourself over to Christ does not mean your flesh will not sin...your flesh will sin for the rest of your life as you go through the sanctification process called life...
Jesus is clear however...Jesus said that you are either with me or your against me....He did not leave any room for compromise....You are either his or your not...Vic gave you one of my favorite scriptures ''be still and know that I am God''....That was good advice...Be still and hear him....He is calling you....

And even if I WERE to give 100% all the time, . . . that righteousness is nothing more than "filthy rags" anyway.

Exactly right...This is why we need Jesus...He is the only one who can stand in our place...We are made righteous through Jesus and Jesus alone...

Nothing I do will make me good in God's eyes,

You are correct.....

which is where Grace comes in. And I accept that Grace into my life.

Except you forgot ''through faith''...We are saved by Grace through Faith........

Does that mean I'm going to be an evangelic apologetic Christian? Probably not. But at least I'm going to be honest about who I am. I'm not one of the "super Christians". I may never be. But by Grace, . . .thank God I don't really have to be.

Blessings all!

I don't know very many super Christians and certainly I am not one...But I can tell you that it takes more than ''Grace'' to be a Christian, it also takes ''faith''....

 

[Orion]

Well, . . HMMMMMmmmm. . . since we have no physical manifestations, . . . we don't see God, . . .. feel God, . . . . hear God, . . . .but take everything on faith, . . . . then I guess I would have to admit that I HAVE nothing but blind faith that there is Grace at work. However, having said that, . . . .I will probably continue to struggle with this idea because I will never be completely certain that it is God working in my life, . . . or just an incredible random act of coincidence, or just my own thoughts as to what I should do. . . . basically because everything is to be taken solely on faith.

I wonder how many people screw things up because they are acting on their blind faith and it was ONLY their own self fooling themselves to think it was God? :-? I think that is my biggest problem with the Christianity. If you THINK you are hearing from God, and have faith that it is absolutely true, . . . . and it isn't God at all, . . . . you could end up ruining your whole day. . . . or worse ruining a whole LOT of people's day . . . or life. . . .or existence.

But, it is apparently all we have to go on. Faith in a book that we believe, again by faith, that it was given by God with no outside human influences. What if that was wrong? What if not every book in the Bible WAS inspired, but only some books, . . . and not every word of those books? If it IS wrong, and even the most zealot Christian of faith believes it WAS from God. . . .all of it, . . . what does that say about the problem with "faith" being the most important part of the religion?

Well, it is obvious that I have some major concerns with this subject. And I mean no disrespect towards anyone.

 

[jgredline]

Well, . . HMMMMMmmmm. . . since we have no physical manifestations, . . . we don't see God, . . .. feel God, . . . . hear God, . . . .but take everything on faith, . . . . then I guess I would have to admit that I HAVE nothing but blind faith that there is Grace at work. However, having said that, . . . .I will probably continue to struggle with this idea because I will never be completely certain that it is God working in my life, . . . or just an incredible random act of coincidence, or just my own thoughts as to what I should do. . . . basically because everything is to be taken solely on faith.

The ''Grace'' you are feeling is the holy spirit wooooing you to himself...It is his common grace, not to be confused with grace that comes through faith....The grace that comes through faith can only happen when you are born again...

I wonder how many people screw things up because they are acting on their blind faith and it was ONLY their own self fooling themselves to think it was God? :-? I think that is my biggest problem with the Christianity. If you THINK you are hearing from God, and have faith that it is absolutely true, . . . . and it isn't God at all, . . . . you could end up ruining your whole day. . . . or worse ruining a whole LOT of people's day . . . or life. . . .or existence.

.. While I can't speak on anybodies behalf, I can certainly speak of my own life...When I am walking in the spirit, I will trust the first thoughts that come to my mind, because the HS will always prompt me first....Most I have spoken to will also attest to the same thing...If you are a Christian who is living after after the flesh, then, no You can't trust your first thoughts..This is why it is important to take up your armor daily, Pray through out the day, Paul says to pray with out ceasing, study the word and be a doer and not merely a hearer....Everything the person needs to live a Christian Holy life is in his word.....

But, it is apparently all we have to go on. Faith in a book that we believe, again by faith, that it was given by God with no outside human influences. What if that was wrong? What if not every book in the Bible WAS inspired, but only some books, . . . and not every word of those books? If it IS wrong, and even the most zealot Christian of faith believes it WAS from God. . . .all of it, . . . what does that say about the problem with "faith" being the most important part of the religion?

Well, it is obvious that I have some major concerns with this subject. And I mean no disrespect towards anyone.

People have been trying to disprove the bible since it was first put to together....The word of God has proved to pass the test of time, has withstood some of the brightest minds against it and has been transforming peoples lives for centuries....What better testimony is there than seeing change in a persons life...It is easy to live a life of hell in the flesh, but Only God can change a person who lives like Hell to a person who will repent and live a life that is worth living for.......

 

[Relic]

.
ORION,

How does God reveal Himself to me, How do I know he is communicating with me? Blind faith is NOT so blind when you partner it with HOPE! And see His GRACE was at work, afterward! Retrospect.... speaks louder than the silence of the present!



I thank Him for all that I am and all that I have, for all that I give to others and for all that comes back to me from my service to His cause.

I used to not know how to find him either..... But the only way you can find Him working and communicating with you in your own life is to Give praise and Thanksgiving for ALL things. God is IN the Praise and the Worship. He is IN the Thanksgivings. King David knew how to tap into that and more. Psalm 32 Psalm 109 Psalm 117 Highlight your bible all you want.... if you don't personalize all that HE is. and take it on. then how can you expect to experience His love inside of you?

Any love you have ever expressed that is OF God IS God communicating to you and speaking through you. Don't you know that? God IS communicating with you.

God is communicating with you in every word and act of appreciation you extend outward. And IN every word and act of appreciation extended toward you. Murmuring and complaining is what the Hebrews did in the Sinai desert. What was supposed to take them 11 years journey took them 40 years because of their murmuring and complaining that what they had wasn't good enough. They didn't look to see all the provisions as a blessing, they only murmured that they didn't have what they wanted, or expected they needed to get them by. Think about that. Sinai means a desolate place. Is that where you want to stay? In a desolate place of feeling aside from Him? You will only find His presence in taking on the Promises of His word, in taking on all that HE is for you. He created you for Him. Take what he says he is IN you, through His word living IN you. You can only find Him in His Holiness. Not in the unholy murmur of desolation. That desolate place... Get out of it and Give praise and thanks for ALL things. Even though it seems like it's not, sometimes, we "give sacrifices" of praise and thanksgiving.... in so doing, we come out of (overcome) that desolate place.



The world is full of awful horrible things. We can complain about them all we want and try as we will to make changes about the awful horrible things we see. Hope brings rewards. Not giving up thinking nothing is happening, no one is listening..... God is not seen face to face.... Not even Moses could do that. God is seen in His stead. If you fail to give thanks for all things. you will fail to see the workings of the Lord God in your life, you will fail to see that yes, he was communicating all along. But you were too busy murmuring that he wasn't talking to you, he wasn't near you. Look on the retrospect... you will see the footprints of the Lord. He carries you even though you don't even realize it! You will see this when you are older!!!!!! Believe me! I used to think God was nowhere around me. I thought life was not good to me and God forgot about me too.



NOW THAT I'm 55 years old! I thank God for the 55 years of my life. I used to think it was an unfortunate life.... being from a poor family most of my life having to struggle most of my adult life, because I was divorced twice, with two children to raise on my own. But as I look back on everything..... I realize how much THE GOOD LORD TOOK CARE OF ME in spite of my negative outlook and many many times, I also thought HE WASN'T ANYWHERE NEAR ME. I FELT SO ALONE, SO UNFORTUNATE TO NOT HAVE HIM AS CLOSE TO ME AS I WANTED..... To wipe all my cares away. I hated being so .... alone in life. I wanted superman GOD! Not some God who just didn't do for me at the snap of my fingers. Not some God who didn't let me know HE SEES ALL, HE HEARS ALL, and HE KNOWS ALL. I didn't keep those things in mind. I thought he would talk to me like any other human being. I thought..... HE WOULD take all my troubles away from me, I thought he would give me all the answers - as if I didn't have to make any effort to get them or learn how to stand on my own two feet without being handed that ole' silver spoon I wanted Him to provide for me in order to give me a sense of His provision. But instead..... HE let me live and learn. And He took me under His wing of refuge even though I didn't realize it.

Ya know.... If you help the butterfly out of it's cocoon.... it will not get strong enough to fly. God is not ignoring you! Don't let the whiles of the devil trick you into thinking God is nowhere around you or speaking to you! God IS in every second of your life, whether you realize it or not!


I count my blessings instead of my sorrows.

Just on example:
I see a roof over my head and I see the GOOD LORD gave me a safe place to live...... I'm grateful that I am not in Africa having to live in some straw hut or some tin roofed shack of a home, in fear of being terrorized by some fanatical muslim soldiers out to massacre a whole village of people.

I know God is IN MY PRESENCE AND VERY NEAR TO ME... My problems could be so much worse! I thank God for my now even though, at times, I may not like my now..... I know, that I'll get through it and I can learn from it. Look to see what life has to offer, in the now, even if it means a moment of nothing, it is still something. Look not what it is missing in your life, look what you have been given and what you can give. If you think God is missing from your life.... you are mistaken. His work is not always for you too see or understand, but for you to accept and learn and press on in knowing it may not be what you expected, but it is what it is and even though there is silence.... HE IS at work IN your life. Yes, even thought the murmuring, we can learn from it, move onward, or be stuck in it, and not learn.... take 40 years of a journey for what could have taken 11 years because of murmuring instead of finding ways of gratitude for what is and what can be.

You'll never see God's presence in your life if you expect to see miracles before they happen. You can only see miracles in retrospect of them happening. You can hope for miracles before they happen, but you can't see miracles before they happen. If you know what I mean.

Count your blessings and you WILL SEE the tracks of GOD's presense IN YOUR LIFE!

Every breath we take is proof enough that GOD IS in our life communicating that there is a reason we are here! It's for Him. We weren't born for ourselves, We were born for God's Holy purpose. Not our own ungodly selfish reasons. Count every moment a miracle for HIS purpose. Simple as it may seem, blind as we might be, not understanding the why-for or the way-for, Just know.... HE IS. And, at times, even though we may think nothing is happening.... something IS. HE IS.

Count ALL of your blessings, not just some of them, and you will see God is communicating with you constantly, whether you highlight your bible or not. Getting to know His Grace, His Mercy, His giving.... is where we most experience his presence. And yes.... silence isn't always so bad. Sometimes, children don't need to hear what's going. They just need to Be and rest in knowing that all is being taken care of. In the now and the forever. Learning to cope with the daily things in life is not always easy. Let Jesus be your guide. He gives us a hiding place in Hope. Hope is the substance of things unseen. Silence ain't so bad when you just allow rest in Him to come, you don't need to be in control of every moment. And you don't need to hear always. when you don't hear, it's time to be still IN what you know HE IS. Not in what you think is not there. HE IS ALWAYS THERE. Just accept that you can't hear very well when you are expecting something you shouldn't be expecting. God's allowed to be silent at times too, you know. :wink: Stop snapping your fingers at Him. And let life take it's course. You may not always like the road you are on. But you must learn.... You are not the boss. God is. Let Him grow you some wings without spoiling you to the point of your not being able to get out of your cocoon. Giving birth is NOT easy! I know! I've had two children and birth pangs are tough! But the gift of life is worth the hard labor! My children are now 31 and soon to be 21. They are a gift.... The special gifts in life are not easily come by! Even though I went through two divorces each 10 years apart and after that my fiance died suddenly.... I am grateful that God is working in my life. I have had no husband for the past 20 years. God had other plans for me, and that's okay too. Retrospect makes all the difference when you look for the best instead of what could have been, or what you thought should be. Let God be God and you will find that you don't have to be in control so much... Even in the times of silence. Take a breath and let God birth in you what He will, even if you think he's not there... remember.... HE IS working to give you strength like the butterfly works to emerge from out of the cocoon. You too must work through those trying silent times too, where no one but you do the work.... It's all God at work IN you. Peace, BE still and know... that He IS. The very fact that you are breathing.... proves that God is communicating with you, through you.... Learn and rely on His ways, not your own selfish ways. We start to doubt when we allow the whiles of the devil to step in the way of HIS WAY.

What are you doing? Faith without works is dead you know. What are you doing in your life to reach out to others? Let God work through you. The whiles of the devil are come to steal kill and destroy all the life God wants to share through you. What are you doing to reach out to others to help them in "life" ? When you dwell on self to much the devil gets a good grip on pulling you down into doubt, confusion, and pity parties. When you dwell on LIFE., on what God created life for... you will reach out and help others, instead of dwelling on self and what you aren't getting.

God gives to those who give to others. Even though it may seem you are not getting anything in return.... later in life.... you will see.... in retrospect, what blessings abound from out of giving.

Go hang out with some giving Christians. volunteer your time in reaching out to your community. Find youself a good youth group, or ministry that is active in the community. Get out of yourself and the birth (whatever it may be) take place. Make sure whatever you do... do it with The Holy Spirit as your guide.... not the selfish what's in it for me, spirit. Ya know?

Get out of yourself and find a good active ministry.... volunteer you time and in "retrospect" you have to look for the good that happened, not the "what didn't happen". That's where you'll see the voice of God was fast at work all the time....Sometimes his voice is not so evident in the present, but very clear upon retrospect... you'll see that His voice spoke loud and clear even though you though He was silent and distant.


God bless you.


.

 

[jgredline]

Relic
A wonderful post and full of Gods truth...
The Lord bless you...
javier

 

[Orion]

Hmmm. . . . . . . Relic, I'm glad that you have found this to be true in your life, and if that's the case, then that is great. Many people live their life as you have stated.

However, I really don't see what I do as "God communicating". Even if I do something for another person, I'm not seeing how that is God communicating to me through that act. I don't see how my "roof over my head", or "food in the frig" is God communicating. Many non-Christian people, including some very very BAD people have a roof over their head, and food in the frig. There have been Christian people who end up homeless or hungry, as well as their kids. I'm not talking about "wishy washy Christians" either.

But let's say that what you stated is how God communicates with us. How can we really know that it really IS God? What if you think it is, but it wasn't God at all? Are we being presumptuous when we think it was God? I don't know. Maybe! There are some people out there who do great things for all kinds of people,. . . . perhaps God is using their abilities to help unfortunate folk out.

Really, . . .what is SO important about "faith" that God would insist on that being the only option for us knowing him? Faith in a book. Faith in our prayers. Faith that what we "FEEL" is the Holy Spirit speaking to us really is the Holy Spirit. Sure, I can take it on faith that it is. If I'm wrong about it, where's the glory for God in it? Isn't it just my own thoughts rather than God's?

Again, if you have that level of faith, that's great. I just have a spiritual struggle that I'm working through concerning this. I don't deny God or Jesus at all. I accept them into my life and will continue seeking.

 

[jgredline]

The bible says that with out faith you can't be saved....

eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Quath]

The bible says that with out faith you can't be saved....

It says a lot of things about salvation. From Christian Salvation?:

In fact, depending on which denomination of Christianity one subscribes to, any combination of the following bible verses can be used to justify how one is saved:

By Hearing the Gospel & Belief in God: John 5:24: "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life."

By Baptism: John 3:5: "Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'"

By Grace & Faith, not Works: Ephesians 2:8,9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith ... not of works."

By Faith & Works: James 2:17: "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

By Keeping the Law: Matthew 19:17: "... if thou wilt enter unto life, keep the commandments."

By Belief in Christ: John 3:16: "... whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

By Belief and Baptism: Mark 16:16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

By Words: Matthew 12:37: "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

By Calling on the Lord: Acts 2:21: "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Not Works but by Grace & Baptism: Titus 3:5: "Not by works ... but according to his mercy ... by the washing of regeneration." (Note: some denominations will say the washing refers to Christ's blood and sacrifice.)

According to Proverbs 16:4: God made the "wicked" for "the day of evil" (i.e. judgment & damnation). Of course, this makes no sense in light of passages that confirm or suggest that Jesus died for a small number of the elect; or that suggest all will be saved: John 1:29, 4:42, 1 Corinthians 15:29, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 4:14.

Salvation Available to the Chosen Few: Matthew 7:14, 22:14, Luke 12:32, 13:24, John 6:37,65,15:16,19, Romans 8:29, 9:11-23, Ephesians 1:4.

Salvation Available to Those Who Desire it: Matthew 7:7-8, 11:28, John 3:16, 5:40, 7:37, Acts 2:21, Revelations 3:20.

So I don't think salvation is as clear cut as you make it out to be.

 

[jgredline]

Quath
With all due respect, what would you know about being saved?

 

[Quath]

Quath
With all due respect, what would you know about being saved?

I was once a Christian and I was once Baptised and announced saved. Among Christians, there is a debate about whether I am really saved or not. That should be a good clue that Christians are not really sure about the most important piece of theology that the Bible is suppose to teach.

 

[jgredline]

I was once a Christian and I was once Baptised and announced saved.

Sorry, but if indeed you ''were'' truly justified (saved) you would be today...
The rituals of baptism and others pronouncing your salvation does not save you...Only being Justified by the lamb of the blood are you saved...

Among Christians, there is a debate about whether I am really saved or not. That should be a good clue that Christians are not really sure about the most important piece of theology that the Bible is suppose to teach.

Well, while I can't speak for anybody else, I can tell you that your not saved...How do I know this? Because you are a self professed atheist...A child of God would not preach against the Gospel as you do...

 

[Quath]

Well, while I can't speak for anybody else, I can tell you that your not saved...How do I know this? Because you are a self professed atheist...A child of God would not preach against the Gospel as you do...

Yes, as I said, some Christians (like you) think I am saved and some don't. Does it not seem odd that Christians can not agree upon this? It seems that salvation would be something that God would want to be clear so people can make the right decisions.

 

[jgredline]

Yes, as I said, some Christians (like you) think I am saved and some don't. Does it not seem odd that Christians can not agree upon this? It seems that salvation would be something that God would want to be clear so people can make the right decisions.

Quath
No doubt the enemy has created much confusion in this area...One thing that we must do, is first determine what is a Christian? What does it mean to be born again...

Here is part of the problem...
There are many cults that have come out of orthodox Christianity....
Mormons, JW, Christedelphians, United Penticostals just to name a few....
These cults all have one thing in common.. They are satanically centered....

So how does one reconcile this...???
By doing what Martin Luther did....He read and studied the scriptures, and he saw that what the Catholic Church was teaching about indulgences and such were false..That there was no need for an earthly mediator, That we could go on our own to Jesus....