Not sure if I can call myself "Christian" anymore.

[Heidi]

Re: Not sure if I can call myself "Christian" anym

I recently went through a horrible situation. It's not important what it was really. Bottom line is, what happened made me realize that we have more power than God does in some areas and that really doesn't make sense to me. Where, you might ask? In our own will. God wills for certain things to happen, and yet our puny insignificant will somehow trumps God's will all the time. So, what God wants to happen .. . . . .doesn't, most of the time.

Case in point, God wants everyone to come to repentance. The majority of people that have lived don't come to God (of the Bible). The "Great commission" has been going on since the first century and people have prayed for the salvation of man up through to today. Most people aren't "saved".

Divorce is around 50%. EVEN IN CHRISTIAN CIRCLES!!! I know that Christian marriages have been prayed for and prayed for, yet one person's own will trumps God will for the marriage to stay together.

Through my life crisis, I had people pray. . . . I prayed, . . . . I sought Godly counsel, I did all the right things. Yet, God's will was not done. I searched for God. I asked for anything to "feel His presence". Today I can honestly say that all my searching has left me . . . rather empty. I felt nothing. I FEEL nothing, yet am still open to SOMETHING that would let me know that I'm actually cared about by God.

This life crisis was, and is still, horrible. No words can describe how or why it happened, but it did and when I tried to find some kind of meaning, . . . some kind of contentment and even hope for the future, . . . . I have to say that I found none.

I'm supposed to have faith that God is working. I don't think that blind faith is working for me. . . .and if I am "not pleasing God" because my faith is about nil, . . . then I'm not sure what to do because I just can't "have faith that God is out there working on my behalf."

I know I'm being completely honest with you all here, and I hope I haven't offended anyone by the words I typed. They are just brutally honest.

That's Satan, friend, not our own will. ;-)

 

[Orion]

Orion

I haven't read through the whole thread and if this has been answered, tell me.

Do you blame God for what has happened or for not doing what you believe He should?

I blame people. God is often just an unwilling observer of our own foolishness.

 

[Orion]

And I have to respect your opinion, no matter how wrong I think it might be, there is nothing more I can say. Good luck Orion. I'll keep you in my prayers

Well, I thank you for that. If I'm wrong, it will be shown to me in God's time. Isn't it said that God won't let any of his sheep fall away? I am an honest (VERY honest with myself and others) person on a "quest for knowledge". What I post may sound "offensive" to many, but I am just expressing my thoughts. I have not rejected God. . . but do question what may have been strictly from men.

Blessings!

 

[Free]

Orion,

First, I just want to say that I too respect your feelings and what you have said. I haven't read through everything but you raise valid points, many/all of which are asked by the serious Christian at some point in their walk.

Secondly, I want to ask you some questions which are only to get you to think; they are not asked in any harsh way whatsoever (it's a little hard to get the tone across in text).

Through my life crisis, I had people pray. . . . I prayed, . . . . I sought Godly counsel, I did all the right things. Yet, God's will was not done. I searched for God. I asked for anything to "feel His presence". Today I can honestly say that all my searching has left me . . . rather empty. I felt nothing. I FEEL nothing, yet am still open to SOMETHING that would let me know that I'm actually cared about by God.

How do you know that God's will wasn't done? Could it be that God's will was/is something different than what you thought?

Have you read any spiritual classics or even modern day books on Christian spirituality? There are many good books out there which share the experiences of the Christian walk, including the hard times, the "desert" times, when doubt and loneliness are strongest. There is even a desert theology which is based on Scripture.

I had a prof that said without regular discipline of reading the Bible and prayer or meditation, there will be no transformation. I think this is very true and a big part of the reason why Christianity in the West has failed so many people, both Christian and non-Christian.

I strongly recommend, if you haven't already done so, that you read some books on Christian spirituality, both old and new. Spiritual writers have an insight into Scripture and how it fits with personal experience that speaks straight to the heart. It's kind of hard to put into words.

 

[Orion]

Hello Free. You asked me how I knew that God's will wasn't done. Simple. It is God's will that every marriage remains together. My marriage, even though prayed over extensively, died. It was because one person's selfish will overrode what God's will was for that situation, . . . . that being, an intact marriage.

I have heard many Christians say those words, "What if God's will for your life was something else?" When I read those words, they almost seem like someone "trying to say anything to a person so that they feel God is working the way everything is supposed to go, according to His will". Fact is, our will trumps God's will all the time. It is God's will that all are saved, yet few in history have even been Christian.

In the same, God's will was for my marriage to last until the death of one of us ended it. Many prayers were sent up to God by many MANY people that the Holy Spirit would convict her to stay with the marriage. It didn't happen. :-?

If spiritual warfare was being waged, . . . . Good lost. :smt102

 

[Atonement]

Hello Free. You asked me how I knew that God's will wasn't done. Simple. It is God's will that every marriage remains together. My marriage, even though prayed over extensively, died. It was because one person's selfish will overrode what God's will was for that situation, . . . . that being, an intact marriage.

I have heard many Christians say those words, "What if God's will for your life was something else?" When I read those words, they almost seem like someone "trying to say anything to a person so that they feel God is working the way everything is supposed to go, according to His will". Fact is, our will trumps God's will all the time. It is God's will that all are saved, yet few in history have even been Christian.

In the same, God's will was for my marriage to last until the death of one of us ended it. Many prayers were sent up to God by many MANY people that the Holy Spirit would convict her to stay with the marriage. It didn't happen. :-?

If spiritual warfare was being waged, . . . . Good lost. :smt102

Orion, I also went through a very hard separation. VERY HARD! We were together for seven years and we have a child together. I known her since she was 9 months old. We been family my entire life (not blood of course). When we grew up we thought we would try a relationship, both of our family's were very close and was all for it. Well it did not last, after much prayer (and fasting) it ended. My heart was broken and still is broken. But I don't blame God. It was her decision not God's to go. Now that I look back (with a broken heart still) I ask myself; Can I be honest with myself and say that I can be with a woman that does not truly love me? My answer, as much as it hurts is...... No I can't.
I'm going stop here because it still hurts to write about it. I love her dearly to this day and pray there is a chance to try to reconcile our differences. If not! I will have to live with that. But I will never blame God for it.

 

[Free]

Orion,

Yeah, I hear ya. I should have read more to see just what it was that happened. You probably know that there are two words used in the NT for God's "will". One means God's absolute will, like in Christ's death and resurrection, his return, etc. The other word means "desire", or along those lines. This is used in the verse that states it is God's "will" that all should come to repentance. Some use that verse to say that all will be saved, since it is God's will, but it actually means that God desires that all will be saved.

For marriage, IMO, without doing a study, I would think that it is God's desire that there would be no divorce, not necessarily that it would be his absolute will. The problem (of evil) is that God works to restore this broken world through those who are in the world, so things don't always work out on the side of good.

Apart from those comments, I will attempt no answer as to why it happened, and perhaps that was too much. Most often there are no answers and we ought not try to find them, even though it is human nature to try. The problem is that the existence of evil is truely one of the great mysteries. One day we will know, but not now.

Why did God let my dad, who was a pastor, die of cancer 19 years ago leaving my mom to raise four teens on her own? I used to try to find out why, but gave that up a long time ago; it just isn't for me to know in this life.

 

[Orion]

Keith, . . my heart goes out to you, my friend. I am very sorry to hear that. I, too, loved my ex and still do. And the hurt is everyday. And I don't really blame God because God doesn't make us robots to where He makes those who we love stay with us. It's a hard lesson of life and I fear it is a lesson that WAY too many people have to learn.

I pray that God grants you peace in your spirit, and when the time is right, a new person will come into your life that will give you abundant joy!!

:smt090

 

[Orion]

Thank you, Free. I don't think you said too much. Seems like the lot of us have pain that comes from living on this earth. But it can define us. Perhaps a person who hasn't gone through the fire isn't quite as "well-rounded" as those of us who have.

Blessings and Peace to you.

 

[Atonement]

Thank you Orion, it does become easier with time. I would hate for someone to loose faith in Jesus because of someone's elses selfish heart. God Bless you brother

 

[mutzrein]

I blame people. God is often just an unwilling observer of our own foolishness.

All people? Certain people? Another person? Yourself?

 

[Orion]

:smt102

Tell me what YOU think? Fact is, we are free to do what we are going to do. Humans have been given this "freedom". Look what we do with it. Yes, everyone, including you and me.

 

[christian_soldier]

:smt102

Tell me what YOU think? Fact is, we are free to do what we are going to do. Humans have been given this "freedom". Look what we do with it. Yes, everyone, including you and me.

Its amazing He hasn't squashed us all with His Mighty Thumb, isn't it?

hmmm...

2 Peter 3:
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

:angel:

 

[Orion]

I see "God squashing us" as a man made fear, one used the the purpose of keeping people in line, and creating converts.

 

[jgredline]

I see "God squashing us" as a man made fear, one used the the purpose of keeping people in line, and creating converts.

This sounds like one of Pope Leos papal teachings, which is not from God.....

 

[christian_soldier]

I see "God squashing us" as a man made fear, one used the the purpose of keeping people in line, and creating converts.

Ultimately, you have a choice:

Live a life of hope or hopelessness.

My hope is for an eternity in the presence of God.

God Bless.

 

[Orion]

I don't see how living a life outside of the Christian faith means hopelessness. A good chunk of this world's population only know what they know, and many are still happy.

This thread is starting to be too similar to my thread in the Apologetics section. Maybe any further posts should be defered to that thread.

Thanks

 

[christian_soldier]

I don't see how living a life outside of the Christian faith means hopelessness.

Maybe I'm missing something, then.

You started out this thread sounding pretty hopeless, did you not?

Where is the hope outside Christianity?

Reincarnation until you get it right?
Eternity with Allah and perpetual virgins?
A hole in the ground?
Eternal damnation?
god of your own planet?
salvation with 143,999 other good-workers?
etc.

:-?

 

[Orion]

Maybe I'm missing something, then.

You started out this thread sounding pretty hopeless, did you not?

Where is the hope outside Christianity?

Reincarnation until you get it right?
Eternity with Allah and perpetual virgins?
A hole in the ground?
Eternal damnation?
god of your own planet?
salvation with 143,999 other good-workers?
etc.

:-?

I agree some of those seem pretty hopeless, namely the 144,000 good works, or even reincarnation until you 'get it right'.

I have to admit that I have a problem that I'm unsure of how to resolve. I want to "hope in God". Even to have some sort of relationship. However, I can't seem to rely strictly on faith for it. It isn't personal enough to 'have faith that what I may read is God speaking to me'. I wouldn't consider an earthly friendship to be all that personal if our only communication was what that person wrote a long time ago, for whomever would like to read it, and at this time it just happened to be me. It is possible to know ABOUT that person, but it isn't a true relationship, even if I assume that what the person wrote in a certain section of the book could apply to me.

So, yes, I have a problem, and just "getting into the word" or "praying about it" . . . . .kind of is the whole point. I've seen too much, in the world, and my brain just can't seem to override those things and just push it out in leu of blind faith that what I'm reading is personal for me.

That doesn't even cover the issue with me not believing that all scriptures are actually from God, but I'm afraid that one may have to be placed on the back burner for now.

 

[Veritas]

I wouldn't consider an earthly friendship to be all that personal if our only communication was what that person wrote a long time ago, for whomever would like to read it, and at this time it just happened to be me. It is possible to know ABOUT that person, but it isn't a true relationship, even if I assume that what the person wrote in a certain section of the book could apply to me.

Well, I'm not sure if this helps at all but when I look around at the world... I see Him in His creation. Maybe it's only me (I'm a kooky artist) but I personally see Him in simple things... like the way He lights the world. He's just always there to me. I know He surrounds me and so part of that lets me know Him personally. Now I know the world has really bad stuff in it too, but I've accepted that as us messing stuff up. I get mad at God about it sometimes, I just try not to blame Him. He's heard my complaints on it lots of times.

And then I know He lives within us too, or at least really desires to. And that is very personal to me. I know He does because He actually does speak to our heart. Not on a "mouth to ear to brain" then to soul level... but purely on a Spirit to soul level. Of course He certainly doesn't forget the use of the other levels because we do "hear" His Word preached and we can also "read" His Word. And I believe Hes right there, in and under the those simple vibrations that hit our eardrum that we somehow make sense out of. In and under those black marks on white background that we call words. And so He speaks to us. I think of other ways He's thought of to make things as personal as possible too. Like the Lords Supper. Every single sense that we have is involved in it. We hear His Word spoke, we see the bread and wine representing Him, We touch it as we take it, smell the wine, and taste His body and blood.

Anyways, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm just lecturing you, I just wanted to mention some things. You'll be in my prayers.