NOT trying to be controversial, but these are the questions I joined to ask....

[ulrichburke]

Dear Everyone.

Wasn't always a Christian because I believed in science and thought the Bible didn't have anything to do with Science. Then I realised it DID - in a way. These are just my own thoughts so they're probably naive - but Adam and Eve, for example, and the Garden of Eden....

If you were from another realm and you wanted to explain to a primitive bunch how their world started, you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on (Adam and Eve.) And of course they'd look after the animals - they'd be farmers, right? And the Garden of Eden? Gondwanaland. Fits perfectly. Starts off as one Garden (one single continent) and splits up to Fill the World (the 'go forth and multiply' bit!) So SOMEONE understood the Gondwanaland concept many centuries before Science discovered it. Which fascinated me. Then I discovered if you made the Ark of the Covenant exactly like the Bible says, you get a weird kind of radio transmitter. And a load of other bits, too many to go into here. So I do believe there were mighty beings around then.

Thing IS - and this is where someone here could help me - I'm disabled. Cerebral Palsy, Hydrocephalus, Dyspraxia, Asperger's. God's perfect so, naturally, He has a problem with anything that isn't - and that sure includes disabled people (Leviticus 21). All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities (crushed stones - OWCH! - and the like.) And when Jesus cures people's disabilities, He says He's curing their 'sins' or the 'sins of the father that were visited on the son'. I got all mine at birth so I guess mine count as those. (Leviticus also - interestingly - tells us how to prepare God's burned offerings. Do any Churches still do those? If they don't, aren't they breaking God's word?) Mind you, most of the stuff I cook could indeed count as burned offerings.....!! So as I'm disabled, according to Leviticus I'm basically not allowed in Churches, right?

Second to last thing - I keep hearing this 'The Devil Rules in Hell' bit. And that to get to Heaven, we must follow the path through Lord Jesus. Thing IS - according to the Bible (Revelations) JESUS has the keys to Heaven AND Hell. Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right? Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!) So we start off being tempted, find Jesus, follow His Word, go up to Heaven. That makes sense. BUT - I keep reading this 144,000 thing in the Bible. That only 144,000 go to Heaven, the rest are ashes to ashes. And that's the 12 Tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each Tribe. So if you're not a member of one of the Tribes, basically you're not going to get to Heaven at all am I right?

Last thing. I know God created us, so He's got the right to take lives away too. And as He wrote the Bible, through his Chosen ones, we've only got His side of things. You never REALLY hear Azrael's side - bit like having a court case where you only hear the plaintiff, not the defendant. God kills 2,038,344 people in the Old Testament (give or take a few cities!) and doesn't seem to mind a bit of rapine (Judges, various verses!) Azrael's kill count? - Er - 10, as far as I can find out!

My fave part of the Bible? Song of Solomon, King James Version, one of the saddest things I've ever read. And one of the most beautiful. Movie wish? REVELATIONS!! Think of Revelations done with full-on special effects. You start off with John of Patmos walking along, musing about it all - and go into his mind in top-class special effects. The Seven Bowls, all the various monsters, the Four Horsemen (which Jesus led, along with chucking the Seven Bowls at us!) - that would make a magnificent modern movie, no? The Passion of the Christ showed how relevant Jesus still is to us, imagine a full-on Revelations done as the sequel!

Song of Solomon? I'd love to see that done as a Miyasaki (Studio Ghibli) style movie - it could be epic and sad, all at once.

Well, the above's the reasons I joined this site. I'm NOT trying to be controversial - promise - it's just I've read the Bible - KJV - all the way through (OK, so I skipped a few pages of 'begats'! But I reckon I've read over 85% of it more than once) And those are some of the questions I keep hitting. Especially the disability ones, as they strike close to home with me. But I do think all the bits that translate into oversimplified science, or science seen by people who'd no idea what they were looking at (hence calling it 'Miracles!) proves that SOMETHING/ONE was around back then.

So yea, I do believe in the Bible. I've also read books (like the Apocrypha) that SHOULD have been included - and come to the conclusion the Bible's one of a set of books and the others were kept from us by various rulers, Roman and others.. And of course bits and pieces were added over the centuries (or edited out, or changed from what they should've been, to suit a then-ruler's purpose....) So we've got a magnificent tapestry with moth-holes in. Wish I understood enough to know what should go into those holes to complete the picture.

But would sure love Revelations to be done as a movie - that would be the Oscar-winning blockbuster to end 'em all, literally, right?

Yours respectfully. Thanks for reading (if anyone does!)

Chris.

 

[Who Me]

All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities

No you're reading leviticus where it specifies perfect sacrificial animal and perfect priests.
There is nothing in Jesus's sayings that says the deformed cannot enter church or his presence.

I've read our core's hotter than the Sun

As the sun is a constant nuclear explosion, that temperature would melt the earth, all of it into flag.

only 144,000 go to Heaven,

This is where a little knowledge is dangerous.
Revelation is a series of word pictures, not literal descriptions.
Do you really think Jesus literally stands with a sword projecting out of his mouth or that he stands on God's throne in the shape of a dead lamb?
Word pictures.

You never REALLY hear Azrael's side

Biblical reverence please, otherwise ignore.

Movie wish? REVELATIONS!! Think of Revelations done with full-on special effects. You start off with John of Patmos walking along, musing about it all - and go into his mind in top-class special effects

Fact. Patmore was a prison Isle where the prisons worked in quarries. John would not have wandered anywhere.
I agree revelation would make for an interesting film, but the arguments over what it means would as they are here, be endless.

 

[Davidwb54]

Well I'm new here and also tend to ask controversial questions, but so far have gotten no responses. But maybe the notifications here don't come up unless you are directly replying/ quoting someones comment? But If that's true then guess I'll never get a response since always thought it a bit rude to point out what someone said especially if you're disagreeing with them, but that's just me.

But you don't seem to have a problem with that and sure you'll be welcome here in spite of any controversies you might bring up.

Anyway good luck...

 

[budsmamalynn]

Dear Everyone.

Wasn't always a Christian because I believed in science and thought the Bible didn't have anything to do with Science. Then I realised it DID - in a way. These are just my own thoughts so they're probably naive - but Adam and Eve, for example, and the Garden of Eden....

If you were from another realm and you wanted to explain to a primitive bunch how their world started, you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on (Adam and Eve.) And of course they'd look after the animals - they'd be farmers, right? And the Garden of Eden? Gondwanaland. Fits perfectly. Starts off as one Garden (one single continent) and splits up to Fill the World (the 'go forth and multiply' bit!) So SOMEONE understood the Gondwanaland concept many centuries before Science discovered it. Which fascinated me. Then I discovered if you made the Ark of the Covenant exactly like the Bible says, you get a weird kind of radio transmitter. And a load of other bits, too many to go into here. So I do believe there were mighty beings around then.

Thing IS - and this is where someone here could help me - I'm disabled. Cerebral Palsy, Hydrocephalus, Dyspraxia, Asperger's. God's perfect so, naturally, He has a problem with anything that isn't - and that sure includes disabled people (Leviticus 21). All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities (crushed stones - OWCH! - and the like.) And when Jesus cures people's disabilities, He says He's curing their 'sins' or the 'sins of the father that were visited on the son'. I got all mine at birth so I guess mine count as those. (Leviticus also - interestingly - tells us how to prepare God's burned offerings. Do any Churches still do those? If they don't, aren't they breaking God's word?) Mind you, most of the stuff I cook could indeed count as burned offerings.....!! So as I'm disabled, according to Leviticus I'm basically not allowed in Churches, right?

Second to last thing - I keep hearing this 'The Devil Rules in Hell' bit. And that to get to Heaven, we must follow the path through Lord Jesus. Thing IS - according to the Bible (Revelations) JESUS has the keys to Heaven AND Hell. Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right? Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!) So we start off being tempted, find Jesus, follow His Word, go up to Heaven. That makes sense. BUT - I keep reading this 144,000 thing in the Bible. That only 144,000 go to Heaven, the rest are ashes to ashes. And that's the 12 Tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each Tribe. So if you're not a member of one of the Tribes, basically you're not going to get to Heaven at all am I right?

Last thing. I know God created us, so He's got the right to take lives away too. And as He wrote the Bible, through his Chosen ones, we've only got His side of things. You never REALLY hear Azrael's side - bit like having a court case where you only hear the plaintiff, not the defendant. God kills 2,038,344 people in the Old Testament (give or take a few cities!) and doesn't seem to mind a bit of rapine (Judges, various verses!) Azrael's kill count? - Er - 10, as far as I can find out!

My fave part of the Bible? Song of Solomon, King James Version, one of the saddest things I've ever read. And one of the most beautiful. Movie wish? REVELATIONS!! Think of Revelations done with full-on special effects. You start off with John of Patmos walking along, musing about it all - and go into his mind in top-class special effects. The Seven Bowls, all the various monsters, the Four Horsemen (which Jesus led, along with chucking the Seven Bowls at us!) - that would make a magnificent modern movie, no? The Passion of the Christ showed how relevant Jesus still is to us, imagine a full-on Revelations done as the sequel!

Song of Solomon? I'd love to see that done as a Miyasaki (Studio Ghibli) style movie - it could be epic and sad, all at once.

Well, the above's the reasons I joined this site. I'm NOT trying to be controversial - promise - it's just I've read the Bible - KJV - all the way through (OK, so I skipped a few pages of 'begats'! But I reckon I've read over 85% of it more than once) And those are some of the questions I keep hitting. Especially the disability ones, as they strike close to home with me. But I do think all the bits that translate into oversimplified science, or science seen by people who'd no idea what they were looking at (hence calling it 'Miracles!) proves that SOMETHING/ONE was around back then.

So yea, I do believe in the Bible. I've also read books (like the Apocrypha) that SHOULD have been included - and come to the conclusion the Bible's one of a set of books and the others were kept from us by various rulers, Roman and others.. And of course bits and pieces were added over the centuries (or edited out, or changed from what they should've been, to suit a then-ruler's purpose....) So we've got a magnificent tapestry with moth-holes in. Wish I understood enough to know what should go into those holes to complete the picture.

But would sure love Revelations to be done as a movie - that would be the Oscar-winning blockbuster to end 'em all, literally, right?

Yours respectfully. Thanks for reading (if anyone does!)

Chris.

Please find a Bible believing church to become a part of, with a good and knowledgeable preacher and teachers. You are deep, deep with good questions, much deeper than I can answer. But a good church with a pastor and programs to help new Christians can help you.
Jesus loves ALL, saves ALL that truly asks and receives his gift of salvation. Turns from their sinful ways to follow and obey Him. In his word it says whosoever….it means ALL. The sick, the infirm…..whosoever!

 

[NoahK]

Dear Everyone.

Wasn't always a Christian because I believed in science and thought the Bible didn't have anything to do with Science. Then I realised it DID - in a way. These are just my own thoughts so they're probably naive - but Adam and Eve, for example, and the Garden of Eden....

If you were from another realm and you wanted to explain to a primitive bunch how their world started, you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on (Adam and Eve.) And of course they'd look after the animals - they'd be farmers, right? And the Garden of Eden? Gondwanaland. Fits perfectly. Starts off as one Garden (one single continent) and splits up to Fill the World (the 'go forth and multiply' bit!) So SOMEONE understood the Gondwanaland concept many centuries before Science discovered it. Which fascinated me. Then I discovered if you made the Ark of the Covenant exactly like the Bible says, you get a weird kind of radio transmitter. And a load of other bits, too many to go into here. So I do believe there were mighty beings around then.

Thing IS - and this is where someone here could help me - I'm disabled. Cerebral Palsy, Hydrocephalus, Dyspraxia, Asperger's. God's perfect so, naturally, He has a problem with anything that isn't - and that sure includes disabled people (Leviticus 21). All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities (crushed stones - OWCH! - and the like.) And when Jesus cures people's disabilities, He says He's curing their 'sins' or the 'sins of the father that were visited on the son'. I got all mine at birth so I guess mine count as those. (Leviticus also - interestingly - tells us how to prepare God's burned offerings. Do any Churches still do those? If they don't, aren't they breaking God's word?) Mind you, most of the stuff I cook could indeed count as burned offerings.....!! So as I'm disabled, according to Leviticus I'm basically not allowed in Churches, right?

Second to last thing - I keep hearing this 'The Devil Rules in Hell' bit. And that to get to Heaven, we must follow the path through Lord Jesus. Thing IS - according to the Bible (Revelations) JESUS has the keys to Heaven AND Hell. Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right? Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!) So we start off being tempted, find Jesus, follow His Word, go up to Heaven. That makes sense. BUT - I keep reading this 144,000 thing in the Bible. That only 144,000 go to Heaven, the rest are ashes to ashes. And that's the 12 Tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each Tribe. So if you're not a member of one of the Tribes, basically you're not going to get to Heaven at all am I right?

Last thing. I know God created us, so He's got the right to take lives away too. And as He wrote the Bible, through his Chosen ones, we've only got His side of things. You never REALLY hear Azrael's side - bit like having a court case where you only hear the plaintiff, not the defendant. God kills 2,038,344 people in the Old Testament (give or take a few cities!) and doesn't seem to mind a bit of rapine (Judges, various verses!) Azrael's kill count? - Er - 10, as far as I can find out!

My fave part of the Bible? Song of Solomon, King James Version, one of the saddest things I've ever read. And one of the most beautiful. Movie wish? REVELATIONS!! Think of Revelations done with full-on special effects. You start off with John of Patmos walking along, musing about it all - and go into his mind in top-class special effects. The Seven Bowls, all the various monsters, the Four Horsemen (which Jesus led, along with chucking the Seven Bowls at us!) - that would make a magnificent modern movie, no? The Passion of the Christ showed how relevant Jesus still is to us, imagine a full-on Revelations done as the sequel!

Song of Solomon? I'd love to see that done as a Miyasaki (Studio Ghibli) style movie - it could be epic and sad, all at once.

Well, the above's the reasons I joined this site. I'm NOT trying to be controversial - promise - it's just I've read the Bible - KJV - all the way through (OK, so I skipped a few pages of 'begats'! But I reckon I've read over 85% of it more than once) And those are some of the questions I keep hitting. Especially the disability ones, as they strike close to home with me. But I do think all the bits that translate into oversimplified science, or science seen by people who'd no idea what they were looking at (hence calling it 'Miracles!) proves that SOMETHING/ONE was around back then.

So yea, I do believe in the Bible. I've also read books (like the Apocrypha) that SHOULD have been included - and come to the conclusion the Bible's one of a set of books and the others were kept from us by various rulers, Roman and others.. And of course bits and pieces were added over the centuries (or edited out, or changed from what they should've been, to suit a then-ruler's purpose....) So we've got a magnificent tapestry with moth-holes in. Wish I understood enough to know what should go into those holes to complete the picture.

But would sure love Revelations to be done as a movie - that would be the Oscar-winning blockbuster to end 'em all, literally, right?

Yours respectfully. Thanks for reading (if anyone does!)

Chris.

Relatively new here so I don't know how to reply to specific parts of a post. It seems a good part of your post is focused on your physical disability. So I'd like to discuss that a little bit:

Christ encountered a young man who had been blind from birth. People asked Christ what sin was it that made him that way. Christ's Reply, the blindness was not a result of sin. It was a way for God to show us what He can do.

Christ encountered another man (a paraplegic who could not get in to see Christ. The man had 4 friends who carried the man up to the roof, cut a hole in the roof and then let him down. Christ said You are healed because of the man and his friends. Again, sin wasn't involved.

Christ was surrounded by His followers. A woman who wasn't even Jewish told herself If I just touch his cloak I will be healed. And she was. Again, no sin involved.

In each case faith WAS involved.

There is one encounter that has stayed with me for some time now.

As Christ was walking He encountered 10 lepers and He healed all of them. Christ observed that He had healed 10 lepers, but only one turned back to Christ and thanked Christ for what He had done for him.

It bothers me because I believe even in today's world people are also not thankful for what God does in their lives.

 

[Questor]

Dear Everyone.

Wasn't always a Christian because I believed in science and thought the Bible didn't have anything to do with Science. Then I realised it DID - in a way. These are just my own thoughts so they're probably naive - but Adam and Eve, for example, and the Garden of Eden....

If you were from another realm and you wanted to explain to a primitive bunch how their world started, you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on (Adam and Eve.) And of course they'd look after the animals - they'd be farmers, right? And the Garden of Eden? Gondwanaland. Fits perfectly. Starts off as one Garden (one single continent) and splits up to Fill the World (the 'go forth and multiply' bit!) So SOMEONE understood the Gondwanaland concept many centuries before Science discovered it. Which fascinated me. Then I discovered if you made the Ark of the Covenant exactly like the Bible says, you get a weird kind of radio transmitter. And a load of other bits, too many to go into here. So I do believe there were mighty beings around then.

Thing IS - and this is where someone here could help me - I'm disabled. Cerebral Palsy, Hydrocephalus, Dyspraxia, Asperger's. God's perfect so, naturally, He has a problem with anything that isn't - and that sure includes disabled people (Leviticus 21). All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities (crushed stones - OWCH! - and the like.) And when Jesus cures people's disabilities, He says He's curing their 'sins' or the 'sins of the father that were visited on the son'. I got all mine at birth so I guess mine count as those. (Leviticus also - interestingly - tells us how to prepare God's burned offerings. Do any Churches still do those? If they don't, aren't they breaking God's word?) Mind you, most of the stuff I cook could indeed count as burned offerings.....!! So as I'm disabled, according to Leviticus I'm basically not allowed in Churches, right?

Second to last thing - I keep hearing this 'The Devil Rules in Hell' bit. And that to get to Heaven, we must follow the path through Lord Jesus. Thing IS - according to the Bible (Revelations) JESUS has the keys to Heaven AND Hell. Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right? Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!) So we start off being tempted, find Jesus, follow His Word, go up to Heaven. That makes sense. BUT - I keep reading this 144,000 thing in the Bible. That only 144,000 go to Heaven, the rest are ashes to ashes. And that's the 12 Tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each Tribe. So if you're not a member of one of the Tribes, basically you're not going to get to Heaven at all am I right?

Last thing. I know God created us, so He's got the right to take lives away too. And as He wrote the Bible, through his Chosen ones, we've only got His side of things. You never REALLY hear Azrael's side - bit like having a court case where you only hear the plaintiff, not the defendant. God kills 2,038,344 people in the Old Testament (give or take a few cities!) and doesn't seem to mind a bit of rapine (Judges, various verses!) Azrael's kill count? - Er - 10, as far as I can find out!

My fave part of the Bible? Song of Solomon, King James Version, one of the saddest things I've ever read. And one of the most beautiful. Movie wish? REVELATIONS!! Think of Revelations done with full-on special effects. You start off with John of Patmos walking along, musing about it all - and go into his mind in top-class special effects. The Seven Bowls, all the various monsters, the Four Horsemen (which Jesus led, along with chucking the Seven Bowls at us!) - that would make a magnificent modern movie, no? The Passion of the Christ showed how relevant Jesus still is to us, imagine a full-on Revelations done as the sequel!

Song of Solomon? I'd love to see that done as a Miyasaki (Studio Ghibli) style movie - it could be epic and sad, all at once.

Well, the above's the reasons I joined this site. I'm NOT trying to be controversial - promise - it's just I've read the Bible - KJV - all the way through (OK, so I skipped a few pages of 'begats'! But I reckon I've read over 85% of it more than once) And those are some of the questions I keep hitting. Especially the disability ones, as they strike close to home with me. But I do think all the bits that translate into oversimplified science, or science seen by people who'd no idea what they were looking at (hence calling it 'Miracles!) proves that SOMETHING/ONE was around back then.

So yea, I do believe in the Bible. I've also read books (like the Apocrypha) that SHOULD have been included - and come to the conclusion the Bible's one of a set of books and the others were kept from us by various rulers, Roman and others.. And of course bits and pieces were added over the centuries (or edited out, or changed from what they should've been, to suit a then-ruler's purpose....) So we've got a magnificent tapestry with moth-holes in. Wish I understood enough to know what should go into those holes to complete the picture.

But would sure love Revelations to be done as a movie - that would be the Oscar-winning blockbuster to end 'em all, literally, right?

Yours respectfully. Thanks for reading (if anyone does!)

Chris.

.....!! So, as I’m disabled, according to Leviticus, I’m basically not allowed in Churches.


Wrong! You would not be permitted in the Temple in Jerusalem, as those entering in had to be RITUALLY pure, and thus not damaged physically, such as blind, deaf, lame, a Eunuch, or afflicted with tsavarot (leprosy), be in a state of contamination from touching someone with an infectious disease, someone who had died, or their wives when in a state of niddah (menstruation / recent childbirth). It has nothing to do with assemblies/churches. Those are fellowships and are meant for believers in Yeshua, or even Jews in their synagogues, to comfort one another and to help each other.

Please stop focusing on a mishmash of prophecy. The 144,000 are all Jewish believers in Yeshua, and although Jewish, they have special status as the first fruits of Yeshua, not as the only fruits of Yeshua. They are not the only Jews who have ever believed in Yeshua, and there are easily that many are believers now in Israel alone, not to mention all those who have believed in the past.

The 12,000 per tribe is not an exact number of whom amongst the Jews are saved. 12,000 is a representative number of 12 to the third power, denoting righteous government (the number twelve) and G-d’s infinite power. In Gematria, it would read as 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 and be resolved to the minimum number of 3 (adding all the numbers together), representing the tri-unity of G-d.

As to the Adversary ruling in Hell, well, Sheol is swallowed up in the lake of fire and thus destroyed so that Lucifer will be gnashing his teeth and ruling nothing.

YHWH was mainly concerned with eliminating those who participated in idol worship and genetically manipulated humans and animals (why else kill every animal as well as every person?), which included human sacrifice in those early days and disposing of those who were addicted to violence. We do not know how many died in the flood, but I imagine it was considerable.

Don’t worry about Azrael – he is an angel in the Islamic belief system, and does not compute with Scripture.

I can’t get into blockbuster films of any particular prophetic vision, as there have been some made over time, although without the special effects we can have these days, it would only be from one person’s understanding of Revelation and not necessarily an accurate one. Fun, but misleading.

Keep pushing on into the Scriptures, and start comparing them to one another, as the Bible is only understandable when you use the Scriptures to explain one another. It's much like a jigsaw puzzle, and has to be carefully fitted together.

And when you have questions, please, in the future, hit us one at a time so we can do the necessary scriptural research your questions warrant.

My above statements can be supported in Scripture and other non-canonical writings, but you have so many statements that I have merely summarized my limited knowledge.

Q

 

[KV-44-v1]

because I believed in science and thought the Bible didn't have anything to do with Science

What do you define "science" as?

----
The Bible has much to do with many avenues of knowledge. For example, "circle of the earth" may refer to how earth looks like a circle from space. ( if you go around it, youll see its a sphere, which is mathematically infinite 2d circles. )

These are just my own thoughts so they're probably naive - but Adam and Eve, for example, and the Garden of Eden....

Hmmm, we'll see.

If you were from another realm and you wanted to explain to a primitive bunch how their world started, you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on (Adam and Eve.)

I dont get it.
Tribes? Two people? There were never any humans before adam and eve, if you were saying that there were.
There is no "condensing". If there was, pre adamic humans would be mentioned. There is absolutely zero evidence of any people before adam and eve. "Pre adamic man" are a fiction designed to doubt God's Word.

1 Corinthians 15:45
Trust God's sure, evidence-backed Word, not unfounded beliefs like 'pre adamic man'.

And of course they'd look after the animals - they'd be farmers, right?

Humans would, correct.
Nothing ate meat until after the global Flood. Yes, that was a real planetwide event, just look up Carm.org and answersingenesis.org articles for evidence.

And the Garden of Eden? Gondwanaland. Fits perfectly.

Looked it up, seems g land was supposed to be a "supercontinent".
No, the garden was a specific place on whatever supercontinent existed at the time.
We have no solid evidence of what Earth looked like before the flood, we can only craft a best guess.

Starts off as one Garden (one single continent) and splits up to Fill the World (the 'go forth and multiply' bit!) So SOMEONE understood the Gondwanaland concept many centuries before Science discovered it.

No, just extrapolating and forcing a concept that aint there.

Which fascinated me.

Star trek and action movie CGI effects fascinate me, too.

Then I discovered if you made the Ark of the Covenant exactly like the Bible says, you get a weird kind of radio transmitter.

Looks vaguely like a transmitter, but isnt.

And a load of other bits, too many to go into here.

Examples? 3-5, since you said "a load".

So I do believe there were mighty beings around then.

Yes, in David's time there were giants.

Thing IS - and this is where someone here could help me - I'm disabled. Cerebral Palsy, Hydrocephalus, Dyspraxia, Asperger's. God's perfect so, naturally, He has a problem

What does your phrase "He has a problem" mean?

with anything that isn't - and that sure includes disabled people (Leviticus 21). All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities (crushed stones - OWCH! - and the like.)

No, disability prohibitions were OT law, for certain reasons and occasions, such as offerings.
So you are committing a common error that those who do not much understand the Bible make, extrapolating old OT customs into today.
Jesus died and resurrected, so now there is a NEW covenant. Read the New Testament.

And when Jesus cures people's disabilities, He says He's curing their 'sins' or the 'sins of the father that were visited on the son'.

Verse?
Sin is rebellion against God.
Physical disabilities are not actions, so no they are not sins.

I got all mine at birth so I guess mine count as those. (Leviticus also - interestingly - tells us how to prepare God's burned offerings. Do any Churches still do those? If they don't, aren't they breaking God's word?)

Nope. Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient. Those offerings were only for BEFORE Jesus died and rose.

Mind you, most of the stuff I cook could indeed count as burned offerings.....!!

No, unless you are intentionally doing how the ancient Israelites did it.

So as I'm disabled, according to Leviticus I'm basically not allowed in Churches, right?

No, see above.

Second to last thing - I keep hearing this 'The Devil Rules in Hell' bit.

Well its false, if by "hell" is meant "the lake of fire".
the devil will be burning in the lake of fire, not ruling.

And that to get to Heaven, we must follow the path through Lord Jesus. Thing IS - according to the Bible (Revelations) JESUS has the keys to Heaven AND Hell.

Where does it say Heaven and hell? I saw in the Bible that He had the keys to death and hell.

Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right?

Who is azreal in your view?

Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!)

The devil is probably on earth, after all, he tricked adam and eve on earth.

So we start off being tempted,

explain?

find Jesus, follow His Word, go up to Heaven.

That makes sense. BUT - I keep reading this 144,000 thing in the Bible.

You... keep? How many instaces do you recall? Can you give us 4 verses?

That only 144,000 go to Heaven, the rest are ashes to ashes. And that's the 12 Tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each Tribe. So if you're not a member of one of the Tribes, basically you're not going to get to Heaven at all

am I right?

Nope. its 144,000 from ISRAEL, NOT earth.
Being an Israelite or not is a non-salvational issue.

Last thing. I know God created us, so He's got the right to take lives away too.

yes.

. You never REALLY hear Azrael's side - bit like having a court case where you only hear the plaintiff, not the defendant.

Whose that?

God kills 2,038,344 people in the Old Testament (give or take a few cities!)

You guessed this. sources?

and doesn't seem to mind a bit of rapine (Judges, various verses!)

Examples needed.

Azrael's kill count? - Er - 10, as far as I can find out!

Still dont know who that is. Someone said its an islamic belief but idk what YOU think azreal is.

Song of Solomon? I'd love to see that done as a Miyasaki (Studio Ghibli) style movie - it could be epic and sad, all at once.

Well, the above's the reasons I joined this site.

You can be assured most or all of your questions have answers!
.

But I do think all the bits that translate into oversimplified science, or science seen by people who'd no idea what they were looking at (hence calling it 'Miracles!) proves that SOMETHING/ONE was around back then.

Well the Bible did say that "life was in the blood" (paraphrase), and that has been scientifically proven true.

So yea, I do believe in the Bible.

Good.

I've also read books (like the Apocrypha) that SHOULD have been included

Explain why?

- and come to the conclusion the Bible's one of a set of books and the others were kept from us by various rulers, Roman and others..

Kept from us by, ultimately, God. not men.
If what you assert was true then Matthew 19:21 would be "kept from us" too, along with pretty much all other anti-materialism verses in the 66 Book Bible.

And of course bits and pieces were added over the centuries (or edited out, or changed from what they should've been, to suit a then-ruler's purpose....)

Evidence and examples needed.

So we've got a magnificent tapestry with moth-holes in. Wish I understood enough to know what should go into those holes to complete the picture.

Do not leeean upon your own understanding.
Human knowledge is futile against God's. Dont fall for the serpent's "has God said" trick.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi ulrichburke and welcome to CF

First off you say you are a Christian and have read the Bible from Genesis to Rev and that's good in itself. But, there is a difference between reading the Bible like any novel you would read as we need to pray first and ask the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom and understanding of what we are reading. This is why you are so confused trying to make any sense of what you are reading. The way I study is to read the Bible word by word, sentence by sentence until I finish the whole chapter praying and asking the Holy Spirit to teach me all I need to know within that chapter. Then I move on to the next chapter after I understand the first one. This way it all comes together for my understanding. I don't know everything as no one could ever exhaust all the teachings from Genesis to Revelations, but God will open your Spiritual eyes and ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is teaching you.

Never use your disability against yourself as my husband and I are disabled as many others, but yet welcomed in any church we choose to attend and if not welcomed then that is not a true church of Christ. We are no longer under the curse of the Levitical law as we are under a new covenant of God's grace, Ephesians 2:1-10.

You have so many questions in your OP that it would be better to discuss in the Q&A forum as this forum is usually for introductions. Please feel free to ask us anything in the Q&A and we will help you the best we can.

God bless and never stop questioning for that is how we learn

 

[for_his_glory]

Well I'm new here and also tend to ask controversial questions, but so far have gotten no responses. But maybe the notifications here don't come up unless you are directly replying/ quoting someones comment? But If that's true then guess I'll never get a response since always thought it a bit rude to point out what someone said especially if you're disagreeing with them, but that's just me.

But you don't seem to have a problem with that and sure you'll be welcome here in spite of any controversies you might bring up.

Anyway good luck...

Hi Davidwb54 and also want to welcome you to CF

I'm sorry you are having trouble getting responses. Please use the Q&A forum and ask us anything and will be glad to help you there.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Reading the Bible without..,or before..being genuinely converted is..,

Not pleasant. I fell asleep often when I tried to back in the day. But…

Jesus Christ opened my heart and eyes…after I was able to genuinely repent and gradually allow myself to be instructed by Christ.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Reading the Bible without..,or before..being genuinely converted is..,

Not pleasant. I fell asleep often when I tried to back in the day. But…

Jesus Christ opened my heart and eyes…after I was able to genuinely repent and gradually allow myself to be instructed by Christ.

New Christ empowered post just dropped
7 min ago

 

[kbmonday]

you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on

Science shows that there was a genetic Adam, and mitochondrial DNA shows there was an Eve. Literally one man and one woman that we can trace all humans to, not a reproducing tribe or group as would be necessary for a naturalistic genesis of mankind.

As for haSatan, he will be cast into the abyss on the day of judgement. You have the gist right on this topic.
As for being one of the 12 tribes, we are brought into covenant through the blood of Jesus Christ and become part of the House of Israel. Ephesians 2:11-13 (KJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The new covenant is described both in Jer 31:31 and Hebrews 8:8.
As for the dividing of the earth, scripture tells us when it happened. Genesis 10:25 (KJV) - And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided;

As for the other side of the story. I was not raised Christian, I was raised in the occult. That is where you hear "the other side". That Satan really freed mankind from a strict and controlling creator. It is the same story, whether in Sumerian, Greek, Roman, Aztec, or Hindu mythology. The difference is in the fruits, and I can tell you that the fruits of paganism and gnosticism are bad fruits. Jesus rescued me out of that hopeless and heartbroken place that was my childhood. I know both sides to the story, and I know who loves me. Jesus Christ, the Son of God who bought me with His precious blood and rose again is my King and the only one who loved me in my darkest time.
As far as disabilities, when we are translated and shed this mortal body, we will be as the angels and put on incorruption. Stay fast brother. I would like to edify you on the reliability of scripture. We have thousands upon thousands of manuscripts in multiple languages and they are all the same, with only small differences in translation. Compare that to other secular works, such as Plato's 51 manuscripts. No one questions the veracity of those, though there are FAR fewer extant than copies of the Bible. No one seems to question his works, nor who wrote them. Yet people don't hold any other ancient document to the level of scrutiny that the Bible is, and even then cannot argue that there have been changes to scripture because we have so many other articles that if there were disparities, Christians would never hear the end of them.
You seem to truly be seeking, and also to not have inherited the manmade doctrines that a lot of born and raised Christians have. Keep seeking earnestly and you will find Him. Keep the commandments and stay on the straight and narrow. May God bless and keep each and every one of you, my beloved brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

 

[Alice]

Dear Everyone.

Wasn't always a Christian because I believed in science and thought the Bible didn't have anything to do with Science. Then I realised it DID - in a way. These are just my own thoughts so they're probably naive - but Adam and Eve, for example, and the Garden of Eden....

If you were from another realm and you wanted to explain to a primitive bunch how their world started, you'd condense the original tribes into two people to make it easier to focus on (Adam and Eve.) And of course they'd look after the animals - they'd be farmers, right? And the Garden of Eden? Gondwanaland. Fits perfectly. Starts off as one Garden (one single continent) and splits up to Fill the World (the 'go forth and multiply' bit!) So SOMEONE understood the Gondwanaland concept many centuries before Science discovered it. Which fascinated me. Then I discovered if you made the Ark of the Covenant exactly like the Bible says, you get a weird kind of radio transmitter. And a load of other bits, too many to go into here. So I do believe there were mighty beings around then.

Thing IS - and this is where someone here could help me - I'm disabled. Cerebral Palsy, Hydrocephalus, Dyspraxia, Asperger's. God's perfect so, naturally, He has a problem with anything that isn't - and that sure includes disabled people (Leviticus 21). All the people he doesn't want in His Church have disabilities (crushed stones - OWCH! - and the like.) And when Jesus cures people's disabilities, He says He's curing their 'sins' or the 'sins of the father that were visited on the son'. I got all mine at birth so I guess mine count as those. (Leviticus also - interestingly - tells us how to prepare God's burned offerings. Do any Churches still do those? If they don't, aren't they breaking God's word?) Mind you, most of the stuff I cook could indeed count as burned offerings.....!! So as I'm disabled, according to Leviticus I'm basically not allowed in Churches, right?

Second to last thing - I keep hearing this 'The Devil Rules in Hell' bit. And that to get to Heaven, we must follow the path through Lord Jesus. Thing IS - according to the Bible (Revelations) JESUS has the keys to Heaven AND Hell. Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right? Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!) So we start off being tempted, find Jesus, follow His Word, go up to Heaven. That makes sense. BUT - I keep reading this 144,000 thing in the Bible. That only 144,000 go to Heaven, the rest are ashes to ashes. And that's the 12 Tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each Tribe. So if you're not a member of one of the Tribes, basically you're not going to get to Heaven at all am I right?

Last thing. I know God created us, so He's got the right to take lives away too. And as He wrote the Bible, through his Chosen ones, we've only got His side of things. You never REALLY hear Azrael's side - bit like having a court case where you only hear the plaintiff, not the defendant. God kills 2,038,344 people in the Old Testament (give or take a few cities!) and doesn't seem to mind a bit of rapine (Judges, various verses!) Azrael's kill count? - Er - 10, as far as I can find out!

My fave part of the Bible? Song of Solomon, King James Version, one of the saddest things I've ever read. And one of the most beautiful. Movie wish? REVELATIONS!! Think of Revelations done with full-on special effects. You start off with John of Patmos walking along, musing about it all - and go into his mind in top-class special effects. The Seven Bowls, all the various monsters, the Four Horsemen (which Jesus led, along with chucking the Seven Bowls at us!) - that would make a magnificent modern movie, no? The Passion of the Christ showed how relevant Jesus still is to us, imagine a full-on Revelations done as the sequel!

Song of Solomon? I'd love to see that done as a Miyasaki (Studio Ghibli) style movie - it could be epic and sad, all at once.

Well, the above's the reasons I joined this site. I'm NOT trying to be controversial - promise - it's just I've read the Bible - KJV - all the way through (OK, so I skipped a few pages of 'begats'! But I reckon I've read over 85% of it more than once) And those are some of the questions I keep hitting. Especially the disability ones, as they strike close to home with me. But I do think all the bits that translate into oversimplified science, or science seen by people who'd no idea what they were looking at (hence calling it 'Miracles!) proves that SOMETHING/ONE was around back then.

So yea, I do believe in the Bible. I've also read books (like the Apocrypha) that SHOULD have been included - and come to the conclusion the Bible's one of a set of books and the others were kept from us by various rulers, Roman and others.. And of course bits and pieces were added over the centuries (or edited out, or changed from what they should've been, to suit a then-ruler's purpose....) So we've got a magnificent tapestry with moth-holes in. Wish I understood enough to know what should go into those holes to complete the picture.

But would sure love Revelations to be done as a movie - that would be the Oscar-winning blockbuster to end 'em all, literally, right?

Yours respectfully. Thanks for reading (if anyone does!)

Chris.

Hello... I have a skin problem. My outward appearance is not very lovely but I know for a fact that the Lord does not look at outward appearances. He sees our hearts.... So all who love Christ, have confessed their sins, repented and truly believe are very lovingly accepted into His presence.. ¨Church¨ can be described as a building where people get together to worship and get to know the Lord better ... right ? But the first meetings, in Bible times, were in houses. The church building can take away from the intimacy the Lord wants for us to enjoy with each member of His body that is present when we get together. Remember the verse that says ¨How is it then brother, when we get together, EACH one of you has a psalm a hymn, a word of wisdom, a word of revelation... etc... But the traditional church does not allow that very often... usually you go in, sit down, then stand up and sing some hymns or songs that are pre chosen, the offering, the preaching of the word, .... maybe another song prayer... everything from the platform... and you go home. more or less... okay but this is a man-made program...institutional... man organized. Christ wants to be front and center when we are together. And everyone, led by the Holy Spirit can share if they want.. We need to pray that the Lord will transform the traditional service. I am not saying the traditional way is all bad but as we all know there is a lot of false doctrine. My experience ... I HAVE enjoyed a lot of precious fellowships and i do not judge the people at all... but felt... something is missing. Unfortunately... hard to find a untraditional church but NOW my situation is complicated. I´m 72. I do not drive and my hubby does not allow me to go anywhere by myself in the big city i live in...he does not want to go to church.. Soooo i am praying for a small group to form in the gated community where i live.

 

[miamited]

Hey ulrichburke

I'm confused by your post. It is also a bit lengthy and would probably be better handled with one difficulty that you're having at a time. How long have you been a believer? Have you been baptized? I just ask to confirm that we do surely have the Spirit of God helping us out here.

Here's how I understand what the Scriptures tell us about these matters. First of all, the law written on parchment was written for a specific group of people of which you are not unless you have strong Jewish ancestry. Secondly, whether or not it was, the law wasn't given to us so that by following it we would gain salvation. We can't. I mean, it's really just that simple that there is no one righteous... no, no, ... wait a minute I know a guy that lived on an island and never heard of Jesus and didn't have any friends and never sinned, and the Scriptures continue... no not one. There is no one who understands. No one who seeks after God. We have all together become worthless.

By observance of the law shall no flesh be saved. So, one of the things that I think you need to understand about all these things you're reading about God needing perfect sacrifices and perfect people has no application to you. You are a child of the second promise. If anyone shall follow after God's Son... look to the Son and be saved. Mounted high upon that pike. Gaze upon his splendor. For it is by his stripes that we are healed and by his death and resurrection that we shall be also. God doesn't want perfect people, and never has as regards people who love Him. He asks for perfect sacrifices because He is a perfect God and deserves such in any sacrifice made to Him. But the people who offer the sacrifices can come from any hardship or physical malady. Just as those 10 lepers found hope in Jesus. But only one was found worthy. All you need to concern yourself with is being found worthy in your heart. That's what God is looking for.

The old covenant was a covenant of bondage and restriction and neither the people then, nor the people now can bear up under it. And if you read of the promise afforded by the old covenant, you'll find that it never mentions eternal life or life with God or living with God. Some of the prophets speak of a time when that will become a reality, but it wasn't a promise of the old covenant. All that God promised to do for those who would keep his commandments and follow his requirements was a long and fruitful life upon the earth. Their vats would be overrunning, and their wombs would be fruitful. Their harvests would be plentiful and their enemies would flee before them without any threat from them.

Read the law. It's right there in the Pentateuch.

'If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them, then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid; I will rid the land of evil beasts, and the sword will not go through your land. You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. 'For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new. I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you. I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves; I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.


"For if you carefully keep all these commandments which I command you to do--to love the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways, and to hold fast to Him-- then the Lord will drive out all these nations from before you, and you will dispossess greater and mightier nations than yourselves. Every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the River Euphrates, even to the Western Sea, shall be your territory. No man shall be able to stand against you; the Lord your God will put the dread of you and the fear of you upon all the land where you tread, just as He has said to you. "Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse:
the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today;



"Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.
And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:
Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country. Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.
Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out. "The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways. The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you. The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them.

Nothing there about eternal life. Nothing about living eternally with Him, but merely that He will be their God upon this earth as they lived their lives.

Eternal life come only from one source. The love and mercy of Jesus. And our love for him. So again, for your purposes, what God asks of you is to believe in the work of His Son and then repent and trust in Him and follow His commands given to you through Jesus. The law on parchment is destroyed. Now the law that is written on our hearts by the power of the Holy Spirit is the law that we are consigned to follow.

God loves you.

 

[miamited]

Hey again ulrichburke

Which actually WORKS - when Azrael was kicked out of Heaven he didn't fall to Hell, he fell to Earth, right? Which means Earth is where the Devil resides, tempting all, not in some fiery pit beneath us (unless you count the Earth's core as that - I've read our core's hotter than the Sun!)

Satan hasn't yet been cast into the fiery pit. That comes about at the time of God's judgment. Yes, you are correct that at this moment in time, Satan walks among us seeking who he can destroy. But in the Revelation of Jesus, the account of God's day of judgment, we find that God casts Satan and all those who follow after him into the fiery pit. Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and the worm never dies, and their souls are tormented forever and ever.

But that day hasn't come yet.