Obama decries Quran-burning, violent responses

[Pizzaguy]

Originally Posted by pjt
But muslims take vengence in their own hands brutally slaughtering anyone in sight regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty.

Oh my. An unfortunate, deeply hurtful, untrue, and very harmful generalization.

You are, of course, mistaken in this statement, and I can only hope that yours is a minority position in the church.

Yes, some people do terrible things in the name of Islam. But many more do not. So I think what you say here really does great harm.

Perhaps you are 12 and don't remember 9-11-01. Your ignorance does great harm.

 

[Drew]

Perhaps you are 12 and don't remember 9-11-01. Your ignorance does great harm.

The ignorance is yours - pjt made an untrue and harmful generalization. September 11th has nothing whatsoever to do with that.

 

[Pizzaguy]

The ignorance is yours - pjt made an untrue and harmful generalization. September 11th has nothing whatsoever to do with that.

Originally Posted by pjt
But muslims take vengence in their own hands brutally slaughtering anyone in sight regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty.

She is describing both 9-11 and Islam as it exists, in general, in the world today. (This is not to say EVERY Muslim is a dangerous, violent killer.)

9-11 is a perfect example of what she is describing, if you are a U.S. citizen and cannot see that, well, I have little to say to you. Any words directed at you are wasted, if you cannot already see this Drew.

 

[Pizzaguy]

there many other ways a person can express disagreement with Islamic ideas than burning the very symbol of Islamic identity.

And there are ways Islam can disagree with us, other than flying planes into building and planting explosives in public places.

But that won't keep you from apologizing for and siding with murders.

Yours is a very disturbing and silly position.

 

[Drew]

She is describing both 9-11 and Islam as it exists, in general, in the world today. (This is not to say EVERY Muslim is a dangerous, violent killer.)

9-11 is a perfect example of what she is describing, if you are a U.S. citizen and cannot see that, well, I have little to say to you. Any words directed at you are wasted, if you cannot already see this Drew.

Her statement is almost certainly incorrect and irrresponsible. The following was her statement (that I responded to):

But muslims take vengence in their own hands brutally slaughtering anyone in sight regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty.

So I suggest my objection was entirely correct - it is certainly not the case that Muslims in general "brutally slaughter anyone in sight".

Please do not insult me when it is clearly you that is in the wrong here.

 

[Drew]

And there are ways Islam can disagree with us, other than flying planes into building and planting explosives in public places.

I agree, but that is not what we were talking about.

But that won't keep you from apologizing for and siding with murders.

You lie - you know full well I never did anything like this.

Yours is a very disturbing and silly position.

You misrepresent and distort my position - no wonder it seems silly to you.

 

[Pizzaguy]

You lie - you know full well I never did anything like this.

See Post 138.

So I suggest my objection was entirely correct - it is certainly not the case that Muslims in general "brutally slaughter anyone in sight".

Again, on 9-11 they did just that.
How can you not see that?

Better question: What is your incentive to close your eyes to this? You LIVE right across the border, you know exactly what I am talking about - yet the apologizing for Islam continues.

 

[Drew]

See Post 138.

There is, of course nothing in my post (number 138) that suggest that I "apologize for and side with murders".

 

[Drew]

Again, on 9-11 they did just that.
How can you not see that?

Better question: What is your incentive to close your eyes to this? You LIVE right across the border, you know exactly what I am talking about - yet the apologizing for Islam continues.

This is not difficult - she made a generalization about all Muslims. If you can tell me that all the world's Muslims were crammed into those planes on 9-11, then you (and she would have a point).

Please read what I actually write - there is obviously nothing in any of my post that constitutes any kind of "apology" for any crimes of violence.

Your personal moral outrage at 9-11 - something I share - does not give you the right to twist, distort, and otherwise misrepresent what I actually post.

 

[Free]

She is describing both 9-11 and Islam as it exists, in general, in the world today. (This is not to say EVERY Muslim is a dangerous, violent killer.)

9-11 is a perfect example of what she is describing, if you are a U.S. citizen and cannot see that, well, I have little to say to you. Any words directed at you are wasted, if you cannot already see this Drew.

I underlined what I believe Drew was addressing. You partially qualified the statement for her. She stated: "But muslims take vengence in their own hands brutally slaughtering anyone in sight regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty." This is a generalization to all Muslims.

The correct statement should have began with something like "But some Muslims...."

There could be cameras at IHOP step away from the bacon you dont want to enrage Yuseph, Canada needs to enact laws banning pork tonight. Further I demand in the name of protecting the innocent Muslims all over the world that Canada takes steps to make certain no women appear in public with out the burka, lest Canada share the blood guilt of inciting mobs.

And this has to go right now;
'''
'God keep our land glorious and free!

Dont pretend you dont know Muslims see this as blasphemy, and are liable to riot if this gets on YouTube.

You better hide all those churches too. Someone might take a cell phone picture nd it might caase a muslim to get angry. And Free knows how wrong that is.

One more thing,, you better get Canada to enact a nation wide Saturday sabbath because......

Not even close Hitch. And, coincidentally, today is the first day in France that burqas and niqabs are not to be worn. And please, lose the condescending tone.

 

[kiwimac]

See Post 138.



Again, on 9-11 they did just that.
How can you not see that?

Better question: What is your incentive to close your eyes to this? You LIVE right across the border, you know exactly what I am talking about - yet the apologizing for Islam continues.

So, because a certain sect of Muslims commits a particular act, all Muslims are somehow to blame? Islam is not to blame for those actions which various Imams have declared to be both morally bankrupt and heretical but don't let that stop you painting all Muslims with the same brush if you must.

 

[Hitch]

i agree with free's statement. first off the pastor broke the florida law on burning trash. he knows that illegal and been illegal since the mid 80's its funny why didnt he do this during the bush days. surely if islam was such a menace, wouldnt that be the time do it? right after 9-11 or the first yr anniversary of it?

How do you know he didnt? Your trash complaint is just more silliness. We have burning regs here too none of which apply to political/religious speech [/quote]

let me ask my fellow americans. whom are a we at war with islam or radical islam?[/quote] LOL So some clown who wants to kill you is a radical but some clown who only wants to wound you is not ? Would a questionaire be helpful?

bush made it clear that is was the later, for if he didnt pakistan and turkey and quatar all muslim republics wouldnt have cooperated with us. i also have seen islamic countries BUILDING mosques in the country of afghanistan, in a gesture of peace.

also we have paid for goats and gave them to local populace during ramadan as a gesture of Good will. i took part in that.Did we americans pray and partake in ramadan, nope. Just said here are some goats that you may have to eat in your feasts on us.

now then which of you fellow brave men who havent been to war would do this. where i was at the locals had more arms then we did at times as they had rpgs and also ak-47's. would you then be so brave to burn that quran?

Would you have gotten on the transport if you knew Ackmed had your family held hostage?

 

[jasoncran]

How do you know he didnt? Your trash complaint is just more silliness. We have burning regs here too none of which apply to political/religious speech

let me ask my fellow americans. whom are a we at war with islam or radical islam?[/quote] LOL So some clown who wants to kill you is a radical but some clown who only wants to wound you is not ? Would a questionaire be helpful? Would you have gotten on the transport if you knew Ackmed had your family held hostage?[/QUOTE]
really its ALL trash. buddy. i lived here
Florida's Outdoor Burning and Forest Fire Laws: Florida Division of Forestry- FDACS
permit needed.

gainseville is aluchua county, fl.

ban was for forest fires and was lifted and during said ban a permit is needed. do you know if got a permit(highly doubtful as fool in govt would have said no and then if went and did it and they knew jail time)

County under burn ban

now then i would exercise restraint why. they outnumber me and burning the koran would be foolish. afraid dying? i am not but i'm not ruining the entire war on terror for something that wont change them anyway. if that did work why not burn mosques as well?

aslo lets see what the pastor did post on line.

YouTube - Florida Church Burnt Holy Quran [by Pastor Terry Jones]

i'm in a rush and i see nor hear no call to repentence. odd. and i see media. yup media stunt , btw florida had a man (muslim) run for office and also we have muslim in congress.
i intend to watch that video again later when i get a chance
funny he doesnt mention them. so you or anyone say that muslims all of them are bad and also dont have the right to practice islam peacefully despite this one

YouTube - True Muslims Support Israel


burning a quran somehow does what for the less violent one that dont attack?

 

[jasoncran]

How do you know he didnt? Your trash complaint is just more silliness. We have burning regs here too none of which apply to political/religious speech

let me ask my fellow americans. whom are a we at war with islam or radical islam?[/quote] LOL So some clown who wants to kill you is a radical but some clown who only wants to wound you is not ? Would a questionaire be helpful? Would you have gotten on the transport if you knew Ackmed had your family held hostage?[/QUOTE]
so i guess we should deport muhammed ali then he converted back in the 69s.

yup i see sadly your heart isnt interesting in winning any muslim to christ. funny my fellow soldiers call that pastor stupid and one of them hates islam with a passion. go figure.


so you automatically assume that all muslims are bad because of a name? what about these? casiq kasem. and paula adbul? hmm both syrians and the former is aka casy kasem.

i live by this, if they dont pose a threat i dont start a fight with them, they dont bother me i dont bother them, and for the readers

heres a way to really reach islam from aghanistan and i believe in afghanistan.
and even if not, far more effective then mr.jones.

Afghantv.org, Afghan TV, Afghan Christian Television - Voice of Christ - تلويزيون مسيحيان افغان - آواز &#1

 

[pjt]

This is not difficult - she made a generalization about all Muslims. If you can tell me that all the world's Muslims were crammed into those planes on 9-11, then you (and she would have a point).

.

Drew, I did not say "all muslims", and I will definitely agree with you that not all muslims have it in them to do horrific violence, but I did make a generalization about the islamic faith, because this is not only what the faith teaches but it is what we see all over the world happening from muslims, and if one is a true muslim, they will believe in violence in the name of allah because that is what their holy book teaches.

Some here have asked others if they actually know muslims and I can say I do. I knew one very kind muslim woman whom I actually spent a lot of time with. We were actually friends, but one day the top of Hitler came up and this very kind woman said "He was a very good man". That was what she was taught in school because he was "helping get rid of those pesky Jews". So she was good to me, but would that kindness be extended to a Jew, no way! Murder for them! I no longer am in contact with her. Why? Because when she was in Japan, she lied to her family and told them I was a muslim so they accepted me but she warned me if she were ever sent back to her home country and they found out about me, our communication may be cut off and that is probably what happened from them reading my letters to her (I would always share Scriptures with her).

My experience with muslim men has almost always been a bad experience with them being very sexually aggressive. I`ve never dated a muslim man and never would but I`ve had them just approach me very lewdly on a number of occassions. I haven`t had that problem with American, Asian, Mexican, or other men. In fact, other men have always respected me and have seen me as a respectable person, not a floozy, but muslim men can be nasty to women and I do mean nasty, and all I can conclude is that`s because their "holy" book does not recognize nonmuslim women as of respect and value. A muslim woman has some respect as a fellow muslim but not a nonmuslim woman. And let me add this, with most nonmuslim men, if they approach a woman and she says "I am married", they`ll back off, but I`ve been approached by muslim men who keep coming at you even after you say "I am married". Do all muslim men do this? No, but enough of them do to tell me something is wrong with how they are taught to treat women.


I`ll tell you another experience with a muslim woman. I was invited to a small party and a muslim woman was there. She had about a 5 year old son whom she let spit all over me. I mean literally spit. She thought it was funny and she watched as she talked about how sinful Americans are wasting food but how righteous muslims are by not wasting. And then she went on to talk about how she was lying to her husband about taking birth control. She laughed about how easily she could deceive him.

Actually I have other stories but I`m not going to go on and on. My point is, yes I know muslims directly and from knowing them, I can say there is something about their religion that does not honor other humans. I don`t dislike muslims but I can`t defend their koran.

 

[jasoncran]

Drew, I did not say "all muslims", and I will definitely agree with you that not all muslims have it in them to do horrific violence, but I did make a generalization about the islamic faith, because this is not only what the faith teaches but it is what we see all over the world happening from muslims, and if one is a true muslim, they will believe in violence in the name of allah because that is what their holy book teaches.

Some here have asked others if they actually know muslims and I can say I do. I knew one very kind muslim woman whom I actually spent a lot of time with. We were actually friends, but one day the top of Hitler came up and this very kind woman said "He was a very good man". That was what she was taught in school because he was "helping get rid of those pesky Jews". So she was good to me, but would that kindness be extended to a Jew, no way! Murder for them! I no longer am in contact with her. Why? Because when she was in Japan, she lied to her family and told them I was a muslim so they accepted me but she warned me if she were ever sent back to her home country and they found out about me, our communication may be cut off and that is probably what happened from them reading my letters to her (I would always share Scriptures with her).

My experience with muslim men has almost always been a bad experience with them being very sexually aggressive. I`ve never dated a muslim man and never would but I`ve had them just approach me very lewdly on a number of occassions. I haven`t had that problem with American, Asian, Mexican, or other men. In fact, other men have always respected me and have seen me as a respectable person, not a floozy, but muslim men can be nasty to women and I do mean nasty, and all I can conclude is that`s because their "holy" book does not recognize nonmuslim women as of respect and value. A muslim woman has some respect as a fellow muslim but not a nonmuslim woman. And let me add this, with most nonmuslim men, if they approach a woman and she says "I am married", they`ll back off, but I`ve been approached by muslim men who keep coming at you even after you say "I am married". Do all muslim men do this? No, but enough of them do to tell me something is wrong with how they are taught to treat women.


I`ll tell you another experience with a muslim woman. I was invited to a small party and a muslim woman was there. She had about a 5 year old son whom she let spit all over me. I mean literally spit. She thought it was funny and she watched as she talked about how sinful Americans are wasting food but how righteous muslims are by not wasting. And then she went on to talk about how she was lying to her husband about taking birth control. She laughed about how easily she could deceive him.

Actually I have other stories but I`m not going to go on and on. My point is, yes I know muslims directly and from knowing them, I can say there is something about their religion that does not honor other humans. I don`t dislike muslims but I can`t defend their koran.

who says that drew is stating that the quran is being defended. he is saying rather then burn that and offend them. have a dialoque with them and learn what they believe and SHOW them a betterway. funny you mention some of that. i have observed some oddities on islam but alot of that is changeable through education

for instance they burned their kids as punishment(cruel yes, but that is what they used to do albeit rare. most of the time the kids were burned from not knowing that boiling water is hot and the way they cook over there is the propane tanks are right under the burners with the pot. so when the kids reach for the food as the parent is elsewhere it falls on them. so we educated them on how to cook safer.) keep in mind that while they also did punish that way it was rare. they did also do other things that i wont go into. and we did also teach them that theres a better way to handle that. where i was at was more liberal part of aghanistan. women did vote and girls went to school and read. they were like that before the rise of the taliban).

and we had a female soldier that we used to teach women how to take care of themselves and when she died the WHOLE town of assadabad and surrounding communities were sadenned and mourned.

 

[Lewis]

You know the thing that gets me is, they can do anything that they want to us, but if you do something to them they cry foul. They act like they are to exalted to touch or something. I have even noticed that with the Muslims here in Philly and the few that I have in my family. They can talk about us Christians, but how dare you talk about them. Also Muslims have a spirit to them that is unlike ours. They are the descendants of Ishmael Abraham's son and God said that they would be (ruddy) in other words a rough bunch. And it shows, their minds are just not like ours. Islam is a evil faith and it is false, so why should us Christians put up with a false religion. I have a friend that I love very much and we talk all the time, we grew up together, and he is Muslim, and that is where we draw the line I will not discuss religion with him because I will go off. The few relatives that I have who are Muslim have that same crazy Muslim spirit.Paul had to repeat the below Scripture twice so how important was it ? I'll tell you very. And let that word accursed really sink in.

Galatians 1:8-9 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29066">8</sup>But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29067">9</sup>As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Drew]

Drew, I did not say "all muslims",....

Yes. The specific wording you used suggested that you were making a generalization:

But muslims take vengence in their own hands brutally slaughtering anyone in sight regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty.

Did you use the phrase "all muslims"? No, but your statement, as you worded, suggests that this "brutal slaughtering" behaviour is typical. And that's both incorrect and damaging.

....., but I did make a generalization about the islamic faith, because this is not only what the faith teaches but it is what we see all over the world happening from muslims, and if one is a true muslim, they will believe in violence in the name of allah because that is what their holy book teaches.

You need to give some evidence to support this generalization about Muslims. This is a very serious accusation - you need to back it up with some hard facts.

I knew one very kind muslim woman whom I actually spent a lot of time with. We were actually friends, but one day the top of Hitler came up and this very kind woman said "He was a very good man". That was what she was taught in school because he was "helping get rid of those pesky Jews". So she was good to me, but would that kindness be extended to a Jew, no way! Murder for them! I no longer am in contact with her. Why? Because when she was in Japan, she lied to her family and told them I was a muslim so they accepted me but she warned me if she were ever sent back to her home country and they found out about me, our communication may be cut off and that is probably what happened from them reading my letters to her (I would always share Scriptures with her).

Anecdotal - one account does not support the generalization you are making.

.My experience with muslim men has....

Again, this is anecdotal experience. But, in any event, the way women are treated is really not what we are talking about. Besides, it can be difficult to separate the effects of "religious" doctrine and other cultural factors.

 

[jasoncran]

you know we christians are often poor and sorry examples for the lord. when i was in a male to male relationship. The christians often sneered at me or the man that i was with. they never told me but i got the hint that i wasnt welcome in town as i gay.

with the "other"half his family of christians disowned him and this caused him to be bitter and while i didnt get to that level of bitterness it hurt. to this day i havent forgotten, therefore to those that have subject to hate of christians i apologize.

to the jews , we were wrong to kill you and force you to run. to the lbgt while we may never see your lifestyles as ok with God, we have judged you and condemned you when we ourselves are just as guilty of sin. to the muslims. this terry jones doenst represent all of christianity.

can we not, my fellow christian, at least try not to be so hateful of the unbelievers. is that not of christ.

 

[AKJVReader]

I didn't come up with this, so don't blame me, i just post it to see what people think:

TEN REASONS TO BURN A KORAN

One

The Koran teaches that Jesus Christ, the Crucified, Risen Son of God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords was NOT the Son of God, nor was he crucified.
This teaching removes the possibility of salvation and eternal life in heaven for all Islam's believers. They face eternal damnation in hell if they do not repent.

Two

The Koran is not what Islam claims it to be. It does not have an eternal origin. It is not recorded in heaven. The Almighty God, Creator of the World, is NOT it's source. It is not holy. It's writings are human in origin, a concoction of old and new teachings.

Three

The Koran's teaching includes Arabian idolatry, paganism, rites and rituals. These are demonic, an ongoing satanic stronghold under which Muslims and the world suffer.

Four

The earliest writings that are known to exist about the Prophet Mohammad were recorded 120 years after his death. All of the Islamic writings (the Koran and the Hadith, the biographies, the traditions and histories) are confused, contradictory and inconsistent. We have no conclusive account about what he said or did. Yet Muslims follow the destructive teachings of Islam without question.

Five

Mohammad's life and message cannot be respected. The first Meccan period of his leadership seems to have been religiously motivated and a search for the truth. But in the second Medina period he was openly corrupt, power hungry, and obsessed with selfish pleasures. These are characteristics that God hates. They also led to political assassinations and massacres which continue to be carried out on a regular basis by his followers today.

Six

Islamic Law is totalitarian in nature. There is no separation of church and state. It is irrational. It is supposedly immutable and cannot be changed. It must be accepted without criticism. It has many similarities to Nazism, Communism and Fascism. It is not compatible with Western Civilization.

Seven

Islam is not compatible with democracy and human rights. The notion of a moral individual capable of making decisions and taking responsibility for them does not exist in Islam. The attitude towards women in Islam as inferior possessions of men has led to countless cases of mistreatment and abuse for which Muslim men receive little or no punishment. This is a direct fruit of the teachings of the Koran.

Eight

A Muslim does not have the right to change his religion. Apostasy is punishable by death.

Nine

Islamic teaching and culture consistently perpetuate an irrational fear and loathing of the West.

Ten

Islam is a weapon of Arab imperialism and Islamic colonialism. Where Islam has or gains political power, Christians, Jews and all non-Muslims suffer persecution and discrimination. This includes murders, rape, imprisonment and the destruction of churches, synagogues, temples and other places of worship.