Obama decries Quran-burning, violent responses

[Free]

Jesus NEVER backed down from evil,Jesus never allowed evil to get the upper hand except in the one time when He paid the price for sin on the cross.

Much of the evil Jesus faced came from where? From the very chosen people of God through whom the Messiah had now come, but who were once again hard of heart, unable to see that the time of their redemption had arrived. Jesus spoke out against the evils of the Jewish religious leaders and where they had derailed Judaism, putting the law before God.

I can't recall a single verse where Jesus spoke out against any other religious belief, despite being surrounded by a religious milieu of various religions, cults, sects and paganism.

 

[Sam21]

And you are in a position to suggest that I need to "grow in the Lord" because....why? Because I disagree with you?


I agree that Jesus never backed down from evil. But He most certainly did not follow the path you would have us follow - lashing out in violence, real or symbolic. If you want to bring up the temple action, where Jesus 'acts' in a somewhat violent way, we can talk about that.


What do you mean "our country"? Are you not a citizen of the Kingdom of God first, and an American second?

It is, of course, the long, sad tradition that human beings respond to evil in kind with threats, military actions, and posturing. But this is decidedly not the way of the Kingdom of God.

The best way to respond to evil and provocation is most certainly something other than picking up the very weapons that evil uses and trying to be better at using them. And a Koran-burning is about the most violent symbolic act one could undertake.

Your attitude suggest that you are KINGDOM NOW, the idea that it is the purpose of christians to BRING the kingdom of God into existence in this present age(false teaching).

 

[jasoncran]

can we not go into an endtimes debate. would the pro-quran burners adress my comments on muslim soldiers in the services. please.:yes

 

[Hitch]

Who is defending a move of Satan? Who is defending Islam? Who is serving two masters? Before you make such arguments, be sure you know what Scripture says. Whether or not be burned his own copy is irrelevant to the fact that he burnt another religions holy book. It is also irrelevant what you think of their beliefs or their holy book.

What matters is what Christ said about how we are to treat our enemies. What matters is what Paul says in Romans 12:17-21:

Rom 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.
Rom 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Rom 12:19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.
Rom 12:20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (NIV)

Jesus didn't come to show us how to incite another religion to violence or utterly disrespect another religion's beliefs. He came, at least in part, so that we could be his ambassadors, the salt and light that this world desperately needs. There is absolutely nothing about burning another religion's holy book that can be reconciled or supported by Scripture. In fact, I would suggest that it is anti-gospel.



It's pretty clear if you read the questions.

Clear as mud.

 

[Hitch]

I wonder how many MUSLIM American soldiers abroad and in country were offended as well. Surely there are MUSLIMS in the armed forces as i know of the muslim chaplains and chapel services. We had them in country for the muslim service members. I'm sure they were bothered by this. But hey who cares.

Does anyone here know what became of the thousands of New Testaments supplied to GI's in country?

Confiscated and burned, but hey who cares?

 

[Drew]

Your attitude suggest that you are KINGDOM NOW, the idea that it is the purpose of christians to BRING the kingdom of God into existence in this present age(false teaching).

It is not a false teaching.

I could wear my fingers to the bone making Biblical arguments as to why the Kingdom is here now.

Here is one for starters:
<O:p</O:p
When people shrink the "gospel" down to the bare message that "Jesus died so that you can have eternal life", they rob Him of his true and proper status of King. And, of course, they deny the clear statements that this kingdom has already arrived:

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power

When does this happen? At the resurrection of course.

Are you going to argue that this "kingdom" has nothing to do with "this present world". I will be more than happy to respond to such an objection.

 

[jasoncran]

Does anyone here know what became of the thousands of New Testaments supplied to GI's in country?

Confiscated and burned, but hey who cares?

send me the video and proof of the bibles being burned, and i guess we should disarm our soldiers and pass out bibles to stop the war effort eh?

did you ever think that the first mission in combat is to win the war? not convert? and in this case we are in aghanistian trying to build a country that doesnt hate the us or the west? and thats a laugh. i had army issue bibles that i used to teach from and i packed my own. i may have one of them from my time in country.

odd . i still have seen bibles owned and used by the govt for chaplains. if you want to know what is going in the services, ask those that are . just like all the hooplah over the dont ask dont tell.i asked my chaplain on that and what it would affect. zip, zero for the christians who believe in the bible. they still are free to call it sin. the military has always been a sin cess pool . adultery and porn and fornication are the norm and are encouraged in the military culture. IN FACT, my foray into porn occured in the army!

and i have one of those donated christian next to me from the time in country.

its called strength for service for GOD and Country. its a devonational for the most part. when i can get this lap top to take the pic i will post it.

and i got it a the bagram chapel.it was before i went home on leave, and while i went to dig this up, i found an antique history book dated from 1898. i found that in afghanistand took it home. i need to read that.

 

[Hitch]

send me the video and proof of the bibles being burned, and i guess we should disarm our soldiers and pass out bibles to stop the war effort eh?

US Army Burns Bibles in Afghanistan

Fischer says military burned bibles in Afghanistan | wrightandleftreport.com


http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2010/09/us_military_bur.php


http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/4723-pentegon-destroys-books-for-national-security

did you ever think that the first mission in combat is to win the war? not convert? and in this case we are in aghanistian trying to build a country that doesnt hate the us or the west? and thats a laugh. i had army issue bibles that i used to teach from and i packed my own. i may have one of them from my time in country.

odd . i still have seen bibles owned and used by the govt for chaplains. if you want to know what is going in the services, ask those that are . just like all the hooplah over the dont ask dont tell.i asked my chaplain on that and what it would affect. zip, zero for the christians who believe in the bible. they still are free to call it sin. the military has always been a sin cess pool . adultery and porn and fornication are the norm and are encouraged in the military culture. IN FACT, my foray into porn occured in the army!

and i have one of those donated christian next to me from the time in country.

its called strength for service for GOD and Country. its a devonational for the most part. when i can get this lap top to take the pic i will post it.

The ballace of your comments have nothing to do with the issue at at hand or in my post.

 

[jasoncran]

US Army Burns Bibles in Afghanistan

Fischer says military burned bibles in Afghanistan | wrightandleftreport.com


U.S. Military (under Obama): Burn Koran - Bad, Burn Bibles - Good. :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience
The ballace of your comments have nothing to do with the issue at at hand or in my post.

really, i dont see how, after its them over that are servicemembers that are in the branches, surely you arent ignorant to think that the whole army is a christian one? really no sinners? heathens and buddhists, jews. and christians and muslims in our service fighting and dying for our freedoms? my first brush with islam was back in the 90's in the army as a twenty yr old. i'm 38 yrs old. i almost converted to islam back in 1994.:yes

so i guess the freedom of religion only applies to christians alone. The army and the services while not perfect by no means are the most evenly handed on things of faith. i had CHURCH in country, real church.i cant count how many times in service we had been fired upon. if someone needed a chaplian of any faith a reasonable effort is and was made to accomodate.

 

[jasoncran]

having been to that burn pit numerous time used by the army and all, that is the only way we get rid of trash! we burnt trash were i was at, human waste, dogs , dog cats as well.

talk about hype!. the army merely throw them out.

ah i stand corrected is general order number one. i violated that with the troops. but i will watch that video more. this is why its good to talk to someone who has been overseas. i dont like that they throw them out but i did see them in country and used them. all paid for by the govt and given out upon request.

 

[Hitch]

really, i dont see how, after its them over that are servicemembers that are in the branches, surely you arent ignorant to think that the whole army is a christian one?

Do you have a point? I dont think so ,you're off on yet another emotional rant

really no sinners? heathens and buddhists, jews. and christians and muslims in our service fighting and dying for our freedoms? my first brush with islam was back in the 90's in the army as a twenty yr old. i'm 38 yrs old. i almost converted to islam back in 1994.:yes

see above

so i guess the freedom of religion only applies to christians alone.

Well you often display a lack of understanding

The army and the services while not perfect by no means are the most evenly handed on things of faith. i had CHURCH in country, real church.i cant count how many times in service we had been fired upon. if someone needed a chaplian of any faith a reasonable effort is and was made to accomodate.

 

[jasoncran]

Do you have a point? I dont think so ,you're off on yet another emotional rant see above Well you often display a lack of understanding

yes i do. that pastor actions may have inadventerally killed men. he incited violence, we have bases in kabul and dont think the muslims wont go to them and try something.

and again, you fail to see that the media in its ways incited us(not me as i now know laughable in sad irony). The army in its command posiiton said no to the bible and rather then send them back they took the bible and throw them out. Do i like that nope, but i know why they did that. i believe they wanted to keep the proselytisation of muslims locals down as that would make the job of the winning the war on terror harder.

why? because al-queda call is a crusade and if we play into that hand they will see it that way. we have christian soldiers killing them, and then they try to convert them. in the muslim mind that is a CRUSADE.

so wisdom is called here. instead of subtiltiy sending bibles to the troops as indivuals (not in mass but through packets with a soldiers name on it) they churches choose the en mass route the army caught it.

so if i die or my brethren because this idiot pastor who caused this indirectly(yes the muslims are wrong but that is what they believe. its no different if some radical christian group was marching and some mullah burns a bible in front of them to incite tension. and they killed him. both are at fault. The muslims in afghanistan wouldnt be protesting if that pastor didnt incite them.

its no different going to the black man and calling him the n word and then making a point that blacks are full of hate. well duh. you incited him and made him angry. that is what happening over there. i dont agree with obama much but i see why he said what he said. lets not incite the muslim.

when the time comes i may aquire a quran and read it to see what they say and learn from them. suprise, suprise. i did that in private with the longest lasting muslim we have had here and i aslo did that with the masons. i worked with a master mason. i asked respectfully what they believed and then i looked at what he said. i told him that i wasnt interested in becoming one , just wanted to know about masonry. i hate misinformation

 

[matt633]

I just find it interesting how much emotionally charged religious factions spread the seed of violence in the world whether directly or indirectly.

It is interesting. The bible says that satan is the author of confusion. Furthermore, fear and anxiety are usually made in reference, to Satan, the demonic or the flesh. In any case, love doesn't spread the seed of violence, it eradicates it.

 

[Hitch]

yes i do. that pastor actions may have inadventerally killed men. he incited violence, we have bases in kabul and dont think the muslims wont go to them and try something.

Hmmmm I missed where ever you mentioned pastor what's his face;

did you ever think that the first mission in combat is to win the war? not convert? and in this case we are in aghanistian trying to build a country that doesnt hate the us or the west? and thats a laugh. i had army issue bibles that i used to teach from and i packed my own. i may have one of them from my time in country.

odd . i still have seen bibles owned and used by the govt for chaplains. if you want to know what is going in the services, ask those that are . just like all the hooplah over the dont ask dont tell.i asked my chaplain on that and what it would affect. zip, zero for the christians who believe in the bible. they still are free to call it sin. the military has always been a sin cess pool . adultery and porn and fornication are the norm and are encouraged in the military culture. IN FACT, my foray into porn occured in the army!

and i have one of those donated christian next to me from the time in country.

its called strength for service for GOD and Country. its a devonational for the most part. when i can get this lap top to take the pic i will post it.

and again, you fail to see that the media in its ways incited us(not me as i now know laughable in sad irony). The army in its command posiiton said no to the bible and rather then send them back they took the bible and throw them out. Do i like that nope, but i know why they did that. i believe they wanted to keep the proselytisation of muslims locals down as that would make the job of the winning the war on terror harder.

why? because al-queda call is a crusade and if we play into that hand they will see it that way. we have christian soldiers killing them, and then they try to convert them. in the muslim mind that is a CRUSADE. [/quote]

so wisdom is called here. instead of subtiltiy sending bibles to the troops as indivuals (not in mass but through packets with a soldiers name on it) they churches choose the en mass route the army caught it.

so if i die or my brethren because this idiot pastor who caused this indirectly(yes the muslims are wrong but that is what they believe. its no different if some radical christian group was marching and some mullah burns a bible in front of them to incite tension. and they killed him. both are at fault. The muslims in afghanistan wouldnt be protesting if that pastor didnt incite them.[/quote] Of course not,its like the theLords said the other night, those muslims were just hanging out thinking of ways to be nice to other folks.

its no different going to the black man and calling him the n word and then making a point that blacks are full of hate. well duh. you incited him and made him angry. that is what happening over there. i dont agree with obama much but i see why he said what he said. lets not incite the muslim.

Then point then,the military burned bibles and there were no resulting riots/murders is granted, and all your 'reasons' have no effect on that fact'

when the time comes i may aquire a quran and read it to see what they say and learn from them. suprise, suprise. i did that in private with the longest lasting muslim we have had here and i aslo did that with the masons. i worked with a master mason. i asked respectfully what they believed and then i looked at what he said. i told him that i wasnt interested in becoming one , just wanted to know about masonry. i hate misinformation

Thats nice but is has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

[Sam21]

It is not a false teaching.

I could wear my fingers to the bone making Biblical arguments as to why the Kingdom is here now.

Here is one for starters:
<O:p</O:p
When people shrink the "gospel" down to the bare message that "Jesus died so that you can have eternal life", they rob Him of his true and proper status of King. And, of course, they deny the clear statements that this kingdom has already arrived:

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power

When does this happen? At the resurrection of course.

Are you going to argue that this "kingdom" has nothing to do with "this present world". I will be more than happy to respond to such an objection.

Every time I would read one of your posts I would feel an inner witness that you were wrong, it finally hit me that you were trying to bring into physical reality the kingdom of God on earth. Jesus never taught anything like that,Jesus said that things would get worse instead of better until He returned to set things right. The flesh nature of the human race would prevent us from ever establishing a kingdom of God.

 

[Hitch]

Every time I would read one of your posts I would feel an inner witness that you were wrong, it finally hit me that you were trying to bring into physical reality the kingdom of God on earth. Jesus never taught anything like that,Jesus said that things would get worse instead of better until He returned to set things right. The flesh nature of the human race would prevent us from ever establishing a kingdom of God.

The physical reality of Joy Peace and Righteousness in the Holy Spirit?:biglol

Too bad you were doing so well.

 

[jasoncran]

Hmmmm I missed where ever you mentioned pastor what's his face;




and again, you fail to see that the media in its ways incited us(not me as i now know laughable in sad irony). The army in its command posiiton said no to the bible and rather then send them back they took the bible and throw them out. Do i like that nope, but i know why they did that. i believe they wanted to keep the proselytisation of muslims locals down as that would make the job of the winning the war on terror harder.

why? because al-queda call is a crusade and if we play into that hand they will see it that way. we have christian soldiers killing them, and then they try to convert them. in the muslim mind that is a CRUSADE.

so wisdom is called here. instead of subtiltiy sending bibles to the troops as indivuals (not in mass but through packets with a soldiers name on it) they churches choose the en mass route the army caught it.

so if i die or my brethren because this idiot pastor who caused this indirectly(yes the muslims are wrong but that is what they believe. its no different if some radical christian group was marching and some mullah burns a bible in front of them to incite tension. and they killed him. both are at fault. The muslims in afghanistan wouldnt be protesting if that pastor didnt incite them.[/quote] Of course not,its like the theLords said the other night, those muslims were just hanging out thinking of ways to be nice to other folks. Then point then,the military burned bibles and there were no resulting riots/murders is granted, and all your 'reasons' have no effect on that fact' Thats nice but is has nothing to do with the issue at hand.[/QUOTE]


really so if any soldier dies from this death that man isnt culpable. so if go to the gay bar and call them all hate words. am i not acting in hate.

and uh agian while i disagree with that disposal of the bible.that is the only way the get rid of trash. you burn it. i throw away letters that way. and some of them had bible verses on them. or i gave them to the muslims that wanted to read up on what christians had to say.

so where let me ask in your wisdom with you taxes going up as it would cost you. should the army dispose of trash in combat? recycle? ship it back to the states.


again i dont agree with muslims action but, that is the way the operate. i never said what it is right but we shouldnt incite them either. that is all.

 

[Drew]

Every time I would read one of your posts I would feel an inner witness that you were wrong, it finally hit me that you were trying to bring into physical reality the kingdom of God on earth.

Well, I suggest that the "inner witness" feeling takes a back seat to the what the Scriptures actually teach. And that goes for me too.

And you are simply ignoring the argument my post, which shows that the kingdom is here now, even if it has not fully overcome competing powers.

Why are you ignoring the clear force of my argument. Did Jesus, or did Jesus not say people who were standing in His presence would see the Kingdom of God? How could Jesus be right if the kingdom is still to be initiated in the year 2011? Are those people that were there with Jesus still alive?

Of course not. Jesus meant what He said - the Kingdom was initiated with with ministry 2000 years ago.

Jesus never taught anything like that,Jesus said that things would get worse instead of better until He returned to set things right.

Even if He did such a thing, that does not mean that His kingdom had not been initiated. You appear to assume that if Jesus' kingdom were here, everything would be perfect. This is clearly not the case - 1 Corinthians 15 talks about Jesus reigning until all enemies are defeated. This means, of course, that enemies can be still be around even as Jesus reigns.

Which is clearly the case at this very moment - the fact that there is trouble in the world does not mean that Jesus is not reigning.

 

[Drew]

Every time I would read one of your posts I would feel an inner witness that you were wrong, it finally hit me that you were trying to bring into physical reality the kingdom of God on earth. Jesus never taught anything like that,Jesus said that things would get worse instead of better until He returned to set things right. The flesh nature of the human race would prevent us from ever establishing a kingdom of God.

Another of many arguments to the effect that the Kingdom of God is already here:

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth

When did Jesus say this? Answer: 2000 years ago. And as of 2000 years ago, Jesus is saying that all authority, yes, on earth, has already been given to Him.

That, of course, means that His kingdom is already here, even if it has not finished its work.

 

[Hitch]

so wisdom is called here. instead of subtiltiy sending bibles to the troops as indivuals (not in mass but through packets with a soldiers name on it) they churches choose the en mass route the army caught it.

so if i die or my brethren because this idiot pastor who caused this indirectly(yes the muslims are wrong but that is what they believe. its no different if some radical christian group was marching and some mullah burns a bible in front of them to incite tension. and they killed him. both are at fault. The muslims in afghanistan wouldnt be protesting if that pastor didnt incite them.

Of course not,its like the theLords said the other night, those muslims were just hanging out thinking of ways to be nice to other folks. Then point then,the military burned bibles and there were no resulting riots/murders is granted, and all your 'reasons' have no effect on that fact' Thats nice but is has nothing to do with the issue at hand.[/QUOTE]


really so if any soldier dies from this death that man isnt culpable. so if go to the gay bar and call them all hate words. am i not acting in hate. [/quote] Perhaps you are unaware, the preacher was working the borders of the United States

and uh agian while i disagree with that disposal of the bible.that is the only way the get rid of trash. you burn it. i throw away letters that way. and some of them had bible verses on them. or i gave them to the muslims that wanted to read up on what christians had to say.

so where let me ask in your wisdom with you taxes going up as it would cost you. should the army dispose of trash in combat? recycle? ship it back to the states.

Take them to a gay bar .

again i dont agree with muslims action but, that is the way the operate. i never said what it is right but we shouldnt incite them either. that is all.

Then you need to adopt their laws, you know they might be incited to volence otherwise.

Get to it, and stop pushing this Christian stuff they might hear about it on CNN, and it will be your fault is they murder some one.