ezrider
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Ok, what's the truth.
- Thread starter miamited
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ezrider
Member
But the scripture does not state that. You are making an assumption.
Dorothy Mae
Member
The year Methuselah died.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Her name was Lulu and his parents weren’t happy about it.
Dorothy Mae
Member
It’s is obvious where his wife came from?
Dorothy Mae
Member
Ted and others, I decided to add up the numbers as you challenge. From Adam to the flood was 1676 years if I didn’t error. I still don’t think dates the earth but it dates man until that time. This is because the year the son was born was stated.
After the flood none of the beggars state how old the father was. This is critical. You see, the fathers before the flood had their son (the mentioned one) at ages between 130 years old to 65, the “youngest”father. So in adding up the begats, our mathematician has to ASSUME the age of fatherhood. Did he pick 20? Way too young likely? What about 98 years old, the average age before perhaps? I doubt he chose that age.
So there is NO adding up then what’s to come to the age of the earth. Besides not knowing the age at the start unless one assume 24x7, there is no way to know when a man had the son who had the son. They lived longer then.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Since Hebrew was a language spoken after God mixed up or gave different languages, I doubt Adam
spoke it. It is an unsophisticated rather crude language without tenses and highly developed structure enabling it to render more exact meanings. But God can communicate in any language.
In any case, he told the Hebrews what they needed to know, sufficient but not complete. It is remarkably accurate as compared to current theories at the time which were much more detailed but dead wrong.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Ted,
God always tells the truth. I do not see that the moments when God spoke words that released energy that became matter in time means instant. There was a first day He did so, There was a second day He did so. Why do these have to be 24 hours apart?
You know, He left out the bit where he prepared Eden. It says he had made the garden. Which day?
To fight about the age of the earth is foolish. God doesn’t ask us to answer questions as to when things were done. He wants to know why. The age of the earth is unimportant to God. Loving your spouse and children is.
He ezrider
No, I'm not making an assumption. There wasn't anyone else for Cain to marry.
Now, you can believe some account that says, "Oh, God just stepped into the middle of some trillions of years old universe and then He recreated everything, or just explained to us how He made man, but everything was already out there, despite the 'fact' that the Scriptures do say that the earth was created as the first heavenly body in all of the universe.
You can go with that. But the 'facts' as we find in the Scriptures is that Adam and Eve were created as the first man and woman to ever exist and when Cain got married there wasn't anyone but sisters to marry. That's it! If we use only the 'facts' found in the Scriptures.
You're just assuming, you know, that he got his wife from somewhere else...also. I do have the 'facts' of God's word to support my 'assumings'.
God bless,
Ted
Hi Dorothy Mae
So, you don't know when the flood was, despite the fact that there are timelines in hundreds of different books and studies that give us a rough 'date' that it happened?
Ok.
God bless,
Ted
Sorry if the answer was vague.
I do know where Cain got his wife. With mathematical precision.
Cain got his wife from the subset of Adam's female offspring.
There.
Hi Dorothy Mae
While I understand that your mind refuses to allow you to understand and believe the implications of the genealogies found in God's word, the words are there. Why do you think the earth existed long before man? I mean, for me, the whole purpose of God's creating this realm of existence was that on day one He knew that the last step of the process was to create man, and that's what all of His work of creating was for.
Do you really think that God has some big picture window before His throne and He got some great enjoyment watching all the inanimate objects in the universe to just swirl around for trillions of years. Because why? He didn't really know what He was starting when He spoke the first words to bring about this realm or our existence? Really??
God is a God of love. It's what He is. He doesn't love fixed bodies in the universe. I mean He made them and I'm sure that He's satisfied with the work He did in making them, but He doesn't 'love' them. God loves people and the whole purpose of His creating this realm in which we now live, with the opportunity that God has given all mankind to know Him, was to create a place where man could live. He surrounded it with an atmosphere that holds the oxygen that we need to breathe. He covered it with a dirt that could be plowed and seeded. From which food for that creature called man could eat and live.
Friend, why don't you want to believe the Scriptures. What 'proof' do you have that causes you to deny the plain, simple truth that God has told you about 'how' you and I got to be sitting here at some computer or device 6,000 years after the event. I'm sorry, but I believe that God has given those He loves and cares for a full and complete account of 'how' and 'when' this realm of existence began and as I have said, one day we're all going to see Him do it again.
And I'm sorry, but I'm missing the point about 'this is because the year the son was born was stated'. Friend, God is wiser than you or I will ever think to imagine to be, The only way that one can give an account that would add up the years would be through the birth ages of the fathers. I mean if I write, Seth had a son named Enosh. Then Seth lived to be 807 years old. Enosh had a son named Kenan and Enosh lived 905 years.
Now tell me. With the account as I gave, how old was the earth when Enosh died? You don't know. You don't have enough information. But God is wise!!!! He gave us exactly the information that we need to figure this out. You know, God didn't tell Daniel that the decree he was writing about would be proclaimed in 458 B.C. God didn't tell him that Jesus would be born in 5 B.C. What God did was set up a line of weeks for the Israelites to count out. That's exactly what God has done for us in the genealogical accounts. He has given us the tools and information that we need to work out these questions.
Remember that Jesus said there was a purpose also that he spoke to the people in parables. I think that one thing that people today don't understand is how dates and the passing of time was accounted for. You know today we have years numbered and we can print a calendar for the year 2050 if we like. We know right now today how the Sunday - Monday weeks for 2050 are going to be accounted, unless someone comes up with a new calendar idea. We have bills that we can schedule to be paid 6 months from now.
Early man had none of that. The sun rose and it was another day. Adam didn't realize that he was living in the year 4,044 B.C. Daniel didn't know that he was living in 500 B.C. So God couldn't write to them things like, "Well, in 434 B.C. this is going to happen". No one would have had a clue what that even means! So God had to devise some other way to allow for dating of the things that happened in the old covenant Scriptures. In this case, He did that by listing these genealogies for us.
God bless,
Ted
sorry, that should be 'sons'.
Hi Dorothy Mae
You're right! God's word doesn't tell us on what day that the garden was created, but since the earth had only been created 5 days before, it had to be in those five days. It actually had to be within the last three days because a garden would imply that there were plants.
Again, God is wiser than you or I could ever hope to imagine to be. I'm rather curious as to 'why' you feel that God would need to tell you on what day He made the garden in order for you to believe the rest of the account?
God bless,
Ted
Hi Dorothy Mae
I gotta say, this statement troubles me. Why the 'fact' that God left out the bit where he prepared Eden, has any bearing on the truth of everything else that He has told us. However, as explained above, I can tell you within 3 days when God created that garden.
God bless,
Ted
Hi Dorothy Mae
Ooooh, no. It is, as I've previously stated, how God expects us to understand His power and glory and omniscience. My friend, what we see in the universe declares the glory of God. That's what God's word tells us! Knowing all of that is about 6,000 trips around the sun back from where we stand today, just magnifies and amplifies that glory and power and omniscience.
So, you're free to believe that it makes no difference. Me, I believe that pretty much everything that God has caused to be written to us in His testimony, He believes was important for us to know and understand.
God has declared that He made everything in 6 days, and He established the practice of the Sabbath as day1, followed by day 2, followed by day 3, followed by day 4, followed by day 5, followed by day 6 and then spend the next day resting. God's word says that this is established "for in six days God made..."
And of course, to turn the discussion on its head with your logic. God didn't tell you that it took millions of years either. So, on what written prose of God do you base your understanding that the universe must be 50,000 years old, or 10 million years old, or billions and trillions of years old. Show me your evidence!
God bless,
Ted
Dorothy Mae
Member
Ive looked at these and they all
make a huge assumption each time they assign randomly, the age of the father at the birth of his son. It is NOT given in scripture. It isn’t there so no calculations can be made. For example, a rough estimate of Jacob’s age when Josephe was born was 74. What age do these calculations use? Older? Younger?
Hi Dorothy Mae
You really aren't wanting to look at this through the facts, are you? I have no idea what it is that you're writing here. Why do you think that the ages are assigned 'randomly'. Do you mean to be saying, the Scriptures aren't really telling us the truth when God causes to be written that Adam lived to be 930 years old. Or that God doesn't know what Seth's age is and so He randomly chose some number to make it Seth's age of 807 years?
I don't follow your line of reasoning here.
Do you believe, that even if we can't pinpoint Jacob's age when Joseph was born that it even has any bearing on this calculation. Here's how we know how long Joseph's life was 110 years. For the purposes of this calculation we don't need the son's age or the father's age when the son was born, when we get to the Patriarchs. God uses a different method to reveal the age of His creation as the years pass by.
Here is a timeline based on the truthfulness of God's word, as regards the time based on the genealogies:
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Old-Testament-timeline.html. It provides you with each and every Scriptural 'truth' that allows us to configure this timeline, in the same way that God expected the Jews to know that the day of the Messiah was upon them, according to Daniel's prophecy.
Remember Jesus speaking to the crowd when he entered Jerusalem on that donkey?
Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."
Doesn't this passage give you some idea that Jesus expected them to know 'the time of your visitation'. Do you know 'why' Jesus expected them to know the time of their visitation? Do you know that the reason they didn't know the time of their visitation was because they hadn't done the math, either. I think there are plenty of examples in the Scriptures where we find that God does expect us to be able to work out some truths from the evidences given in the Scriptures.
Now, you can be like those Jews who couldn't figure out that they were living in the exact moment that Daniel's prophecy pointed to as the time of the coming of Messiah...but they didn't bother to do the math either. I believe that God put all those dates there for a reason. Otherwise, He would likely have just listed the genealogical record as Matthew or Luke did. Just father to father with no ages at all. But God is wiser than you or I could ever hope to imagine, and He realized that He couldn't just say, "something is going to happen in 435 B.C. That wouldn't have meant anything to a people who didn't have anyway of tracking what 'number' any particular year was.
Ever wonder why the dates of events throughout the old covenant are given as "In the year that King Josiah died". Or "three years after Cyrus became King". Because there was no numbering of years as we have today! So, ages and the passage of time were accounted for by particularly important birthdates or major events such as the changeover of a king. Ever wonder why there's not a single writer in the whole of the Scriptures that designates some day or time period by a year designation as we do today. I mean, we know that the attack on our soil took place on Sept. 11, 2001. But old covenant Israel, all the way back to the day of Adam's creation, had no understanding of some 'count of years'.
God bless,
Ted
ezrider
Member
That comes from the Psuedepigrapha, does it not?