Old Testament Genocide

[Alabaster]

Hmmmm, . . . yes. We DO often take life for granted and find reasons to kill millions. I do my best to not allow my character to be adversely affected by such ideologies.

The ideology that man is God and insists on judging his Maker is pretty perverse.

 

[Deavonreye]

The ideology that man is God and insists on judging his Maker is pretty perverse.

I only call them as I see them, Alabaster. If you want to call that a "perverse judgement", then that is your opinion.

 

[Alabaster]

I only call them as I see them, Alabaster. If you want to call that a "perverse judgement", then that is your opinion.

It is silly to think that the created thing can judge the one who made it. Since when does the lesser thing supersede the greater?

 

[Bazz1040]

Hmmmm, . . . yes.

What does it mean when God said, "Let us make man in our image? And why didn’t God say that when He created the animals?

We DO often take life for granted and find reasons to kill millions. I do my best to not allow my character to be adversely affected by such ideologies.

We, who? Who are the we that you are identifying with? I sure don't take life for granted......I see it continually, so am aware of it every day.

 

[Bazz1040]

I only call them as I see them, Alabaster. If you want to call that a "perverse judgement", then that is your opinion.

But is what you see the truth? Could it be clouded and distorted? The question was asked in the scripture, can a man be more righteous then God? Can he be more pure than his maker?

 

[Deavonreye]

What man CAN do is recognize that the ideologies in the bible were created by a primative war savvy culture who used "threats of violence" to attain their selfish will upon other cultures. . . . and when they failed, used the pen to wish ill will upon their conquerers because they were unable to do it militarily, . . . thus you have the anger towards them found in places like Revelation. . . . . . AND why you have this vengence against those who don't believe as you do, or persecute you.

For example. . . . please tell me. . . IF heaven is real, wonderful, and has an amazing god there, . . . why would you have "saints calling out to god for vengence against those who martyred them" . . . especially when Jesus said to love your enemies and pray to those who persecute you? WHY would you have unhappy people in heaven. . . . when they are at the throne of god??? Reason for this is simple. It was never about anything other than a jewish person angry at an occcupying force and soaking as much venom towards them as he could.

This whole thread has nothing to do with anything other than selfish people wishing, wanting, taking, and the apologetics that it was "all under their god's will and command".

This is my final word on this, and responses will continue to be along this line of reasoning. Call it "rebellion" if you wish, but you have nothing to stand on. Your convictions and opinions are not absolute. You're free to harbor whatever belief you wish. . . the difference is that I wish no ill will upon any of you, nor do I believe you will receive it. . . . . but you will have to find that out yourself. Truth can only be shown, and in time, it will be.

Goodbye for tonight. Happy Yule.

 

[Bazz1040]

What man CAN do is recognize that the ideologies in the bible were created by a primative war savvy culture who used "threats of violence" to attain their selfish will upon other cultures. . . . and when they failed, used the pen to wish ill will upon their conquerers because they were unable to do it militarily, . . . thus you have the anger towards them found in places like Revelation. . . . . . AND why you have this vengence against those who don't believe as you do, or persecute you.

For example. . . . please tell me. . . IF heaven is real, wonderful, and has an amazing god there, . . . why would you have "saints calling out to god for vengence against those who martyred them" . . . especially when Jesus said to love your enemies and pray to those who persecute you? WHY would you have unhappy people in heaven. . . . when they are at the throne of god??? Reason for this is simple. It was never about anything other than a jewish person angry at an occcupying force and soaking as much venom towards them as he could.

This whole thread has nothing to do with anything other than selfish people wishing, wanting, taking, and the apologetics that it was "all under their god's will and command".

This is my final word on this, and responses will continue to be along this line of reasoning. Call it "rebellion" if you wish, but you have nothing to stand on. Your convictions and opinions are not absolute. You're free to harbor whatever belief you wish. . . the difference is that I wish no ill will upon any of you, nor do I believe you will receive it. . . . . but you will have to find that out yourself. Truth can only be shown, and in time, it will be.

Goodbye for tonight. Happy Yule.

Says who, you? Were you their or by whose authority are you going by?

 

[farouk]

D:

Can't you go some place else, or something? for you to come to a Christian site and mock the God of the Bible ... and on Christmas Day, too, when we remember how God in His kindness sent the Savior ... is something which is entirely unnecessary.

 

[Alabaster]

What man CAN do is recognize that the ideologies in the bible were created by a primative war savvy culture who used "threats of violence" to attain their selfish will upon other cultures. . . . and when they failed, used the pen to wish ill will upon their conquerers because they were unable to do it militarily, . . . thus you have the anger towards them found in places like Revelation. . . . . . AND why you have this vengence against those who don't believe as you do, or persecute you.

For example. . . . please tell me. . . IF heaven is real, wonderful, and has an amazing god there, . . . why would you have "saints calling out to god for vengence against those who martyred them" . . . especially when Jesus said to love your enemies and pray to those who persecute you? WHY would you have unhappy people in heaven. . . . when they are at the throne of god??? Reason for this is simple. It was never about anything other than a jewish person angry at an occcupying force and soaking as much venom towards them as he could.

Who says anyone is unhappy in heaven? These are martyrs who are waiting for JUSTICE.

This whole thread has nothing to do with anything other than selfish people wishing, wanting, taking, and the apologetics that it was "all under their god's will and command".

This is my final word on this, and responses will continue to be along this line of reasoning. Call it "rebellion" if you wish, but you have nothing to stand on. Your convictions and opinions are not absolute. You're free to harbor whatever belief you wish. . . the difference is that I wish no ill will upon any of you, nor do I believe you will receive it. . . . . but you will have to find that out yourself. Truth can only be shown, and in time, it will be.

Goodbye for tonight. Happy Yule.

Your view is not out of anything scholarly, but rather a mind that rejects God summarily because he wants to.

We have God's word to stand on. You have been given the truth, and if you do not see God's marvelous love for you, then one day you will find yourself face to face with your rebellion, and will have one huge problem on your hands that you will not be able to argue your way out of.

 

[Deavonreye]

farouk, if you find my posts as mocking, that is your problem, not mine. You are free to refrain from viewing threads which I post in. . . . . you are free to do so. BTW, "christmas" was created out of a pagan festival stolen by the church in order to "help convert pagans".

Alabaster, . . . I understand that you believe it as "truth". You cannot demonstrate this as an absolute. If it is "true" for you, then be in peace with it.

My statements have nothing to do with "a god who may love me". I have seen no evidence of anything specific to me, no more than any other person, saved or not. What I CAN do is read accounts and make an assessment of it. I have done that.

One last thing. Why would people in heaven care about what happened to their meat suit? In the presence of [as christians claim] unspeakable joy, . . . yet they have the gall to whine about what happened to them like babies??? Holding on to grudges is not an advanced trait.

 

[Bazz1040]

farouk, if you find my posts as mocking, that is your problem, not mine. You are free to refrain from viewing threads which I post in. . . . . you are free to do so. BTW, "christmas" was created out of a pagan festival stolen by the church in order to "help convert pagans".

Alabaster, . . . I understand that you believe it as "truth". You cannot demonstrate this as an absolute. If it is "true" for you, then be in peace with it.

My statements have nothing to do with "a god who may love me". I have seen no evidence of anything specific to me, no more than any other person, saved or not. What I CAN do is read accounts and make an assessment of it. I have done that.

One last thing. Why would people in heaven care about what happened to their meat suit? In the presence of [as christians claim] unspeakable joy, . . . yet they have the gall to whine about what happened to them like babies??? Holding on to grudges is not an advanced trait.

I know that you were not addressing me but I thought I would respond to the last one. These Christians that have been killed for their testimony are not literally crying out for justice......it is symbolic. It is the same thing when Able killed his brother, and God said the blood of his brother cried out from the ground. The unjust shedding of blood symbolically calls out for justice.

 

[Alabaster]

My statements have nothing to do with "a god who may love me". I have seen no evidence of anything specific to me, no more than any other person, saved or not. What I CAN do is read accounts and make an assessment of it. I have done that.

Well, people who know God have experienced His all-encompassing love.

One last thing. Why would people in heaven care about what happened to their meat suit? In the presence of [as christians claim] unspeakable joy, . . . yet they have the gall to whine about what happened to them like babies??? Holding on to grudges is not an advanced trait.

People in heaven don't give this stuff a second thought.

No one has gall, and no one whines. You put an unbeliever's hyper-spin on things you do not understand. You need to stop that.

Waiting for God's justice and the consummation of the wedding between the Bride and the Bridegroom is what they are looking forward to.

 

[Deavonreye]

People in heaven don't give this stuff a second thought.

No one has gall, and no one whines. You put an unbeliever's hyper-spin on things you do not understand. You need to stop that.

Waiting for God's justice and the consummation of the wedding between the Bride and the Bridegroom is what they are looking forward to.

If they didn't give it a second thought, then they would be bringing up the issue, . . . which should have never mattered to them, at that point. . . . . unless heaven isn't really what christianity believes it to be!

 

[Alabaster]

If they didn't give it a second thought, then they would be bringing up the issue, . . . which should have never mattered to them, at that point. . . . . unless heaven isn't really what christianity believes it to be!

They desire God's justice which is a promise of God. Period. You are assigning unrighteous attitudes to the redeemed, who do no sin, and you have no right to do so.

Obviously, heaven isn't what you think.

 

[Deavonreye]

They desire God's justice which is a promise of God. Period. You are assigning unrighteous attitudes to the redeemed, who do no sin, and you have no right to do so.

Obviously, heaven isn't what you think.

We disagree on "what their purpose was". We do that a lot, I've noticed. When I see, "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" . . . I don't see that as anything other than people who are NOT doing as Jesus stated to do, . . . "love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you". Does "love and prayer" stop just because a meat suit was killed?

 

[Alabaster]

We disagree on "what their purpose was". We do that a lot, I've noticed. When I see, "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" . . . I don't see that as anything other than people who are NOT doing as Jesus stated to do, . . . "love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you". Does "love and prayer" stop just because a meat suit was killed?

When it comes right down to it, people who kill innocent people and righteous people will be avenged. That is right and will be done. There is nothing wrong with desiring justice.

I have been sorely hurt by people in my life. I choose to obey God and show love to my enemy, but that doesn't stop me from obediently waiting on God who says, "I will take revenge; I will pay them back.
In due time their feet will slip.
Their day of disaster will arrive,
and their destiny will overtake them.’" Deuteronomy 32:35 NLT

 

[Deavonreye]

But it is just because they "don't get saved". If they who martyred the saints got saved, . . . where is their vengence then? Does it suddenly vanish because god now loves them?

 

[Bazz1040]

But it is just because they "don't get saved". If they who martyred the saints got saved, . . . where is their vengence then? Does it suddenly vanish because god now loves them?

The best vengeance is when the enemy become like the very ones he kills.....when he has a change of mind and attitude.

 

[Deavonreye]

The best vengeance is when the enemy become like the very ones he kills.....when he has a change of mind and attitude.

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[Bazz1040]

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I have no idea what that means.