Old Testament Genocide

[Deavonreye]

True, jason. . . . people CAN change. But often what is most popular is what people tend to follow. Since I left the church, I basically have no friends anymore. The need to fit into what others are doing is a strong pull. My problem is that I refuse to "become an atheist", even though there are people I could hang out with. I find that they have become absolutists in the same way that others have become in their own belief structure. No one can know.

 

[jasoncran]

True, jason. . . . people CAN change. But often what is most popular is what people tend to follow. Since I left the church, I basically have no friends anymore. The need to fit into what others are doing is a strong pull. My problem is that I refuse to "become an atheist", even though there are people I could hang out with. I find that they have become absolutists in the same way that others have become in their own belief structure. No one can know.

what if you met this god that could be tested. and he was evil.

die? think about it. we all operate by faith since know of us can know. but the problem with your position is its just the same as me.

we have to stand for something or fall for everything
otherwise:
why is murder wrong?
why is incest wrong
ad infinitum list of moral wrong.
somebody has to decide why they are wrong

men or God? either way one is absolute.

 

[Deavonreye]

what if you met this god that could be tested. and he was evil.

die? think about it. we all operate by faith since know of us can know. but the problem with your position is its just the same as me.

we have to stand for something or fall for everything
otherwise:
why is murder wrong?
why is incest wrong
ad infinitum list of moral wrong.
somebody has to decide why they are wrong

men or God? either way one is absolute.

When men started to live in communities, it became necessary to have laws, . . .but more than that, there came a necessity to do right by others because other people are needed. You don't do many things that would prove to have a negative effect on the whole. Further than that, it is an advanced trait to treat others well, hoping that they will [in turn] treat you the same. Because some chose not to, that was why laws were set up, and prison systems established for those who became antisocial.

As for "stand for something, or fall for anything", . . . this is demonstrably untrue. You stand for what is correct. Even those with good intentions can "fall for the wrong things".

 

[jasoncran]

When men started to live in communities, it became necessary to have laws, . . .but more than that, there came a necessity to do right by others because other people are needed. You don't do many things that would prove to have a negative effect on the whole. Further than that, it is an advanced trait to treat others well, hoping that they will [in turn] treat you the same. Because some chose not to, that was why laws were set up, and prison systems established for those who became antisocial.

As for "stand for something, or fall for anything", . . . this is demonstrably untrue. You stand for what is correct. Even those with good intentions can "fall for the wrong things".

really?

why from the natural idea is there need for laws. i mean who decided murder was wrong? men!

and why? we arbitrally call abortion not murder yet listen to any survivor of it and they will tell you otherwise

as they often have permanement disablities


and i disagree for if what you say is true(yes men can be wrong) then war is one place that is that need to have some morals as what you think is right will be challenged and you'll find the men dont do things morally for the sake of morality but rather that they might be punished.

i broke the law as a young adult and its when noone was looking.

laws dont make men Good they contain the evil but not stop it.
thus the saying that locks keep an honest man honest.

we cant make men love another contrary to the idea of hate laws.

if i want to kill you and dont care, i will do it. nothing will stop me.

 

[Deavonreye]

really?

why from the natural idea is there need for laws. i mean who decided murder was wrong? men!

and why? we arbitrally call abortion not murder yet listen to any survivor of it and they will tell you otherwise

as they often have permanement disablities

i broke the law as a young adult and its when noone was looking.

laws dont make men Good they contain the evil but not stop it.
thus the saying that locks keep an honest man honest.

we cant make men love another contrary to the idea of hate laws.

if i want to kill you and dont care, i will do it. nothing will stop me.

In the natural world, it can be seen so easily. Just off the top of my head, why don't elephant herds or lion prides attack and kill each other? It is because they depend upon their herd or pride for protection and/or food.

But let's make no mistake. Humans, though they depend on others for the same, they can work against the system. They would do the same, . . . and DO . . do the same irregardless of religion. Religious conviction has never, nor will ever, completely keep people from doing wrong things. There is just as much divorce in the church. Why?

Why do good to others? Because people without hope often have nothing to loose. Help them, . . . and they may become upstanding members of society.

I hope you can see how simple it is to understand the purpose of "men behaving".

 

[jasoncran]

In the natural world, it can be seen so easily. Just off the top of my head, why don't elephant herds or lion prides attack and kill each other? It is because they depend upon their herd or pride for protection and/or food.

But let's make no mistake. Humans, though they depend on others for the same, they can work against the system. They would do the same, . . . and DO . . do the same irregardless of religion. Religious conviction has never, nor will ever, completely keep people from doing wrong things. There is just as much divorce in the church. Why?

Why do good to others? Because people without hope often have nothing to loose. Help them, . . . and they may become upstanding members of society.

I hope you can see how simple it is to understand the purpose of "men behaving".

then why do we also avoid the aborrent behaviors found in animals.
wolves often will kill cubs(the alpha male)
pig sow will eat her own if not touched by men.

also animals dont get to apreciate the world.

i dont buy we are animal and morality as one by genes.

if genes then why do we punish thieves? he is doing what is gene is and why put him through by forcing change upon what is natural?

if also why not poygamy as its always said men are forced to be bigamists by nature.

i seriously doubt you want really be in the idea coined by c.s.lewis. men without chests.

i feel or react stimuli because its nothing but a chemical reaction in my brain.

and ulitmately all the good we do will be nothing not matter how the naturalist spins it.
for if they are true,natural selection will turn agianst us and none of man shall remain to see anything.
all that we are gone. books,art, gone. nothing.

pointless in the long run as i hurt others or do good fate is the same.
and in society today we reward evil over good.

 

[Deavonreye]

I don't think that is the path humanity is taking. We are still "infants". We have acheived what many animal species have not. The "soul/spirit", so to speak.

Again, social creatures can find instances of anti-social behavior in some of those in it, and they must be locked away for the good of the rest of us. That is the purpose of why laws were created.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't think that is the path humanity is taking. We are still "infants". We have acheived what many animal species have not. The "soul/spirit", so to speak.

Again, social creatures can find instances of anti-social behavior in some of those in it, and they must be locked away for the good of the rest of us. That is the purpose of why laws were created.

we? how natural selection has no intellegence.

we made ourselves? this same men that kill our own children, mass murder.

our society says this money is good.

look at our tv shows that often poke and fellow men's problems
our endorse bad behavior.
Girls Gone Wild
desperate housewives
and also how that add about having an "affair"during the playoffs last year was played that allowed you to do it secretly as a co sold that service.

and what of all this ecomonomic mess? caused by greed by the banks,govt, and homebuyer/seller.

i simply dont see men improving, quite the opposite.

hmm if interested i shall pm you whats going on in canada. as we christians said would be happening. an lo it is.

 

[Bazz1040]

In the natural world, it can be seen so easily. Just off the top of my head, why don't elephant herds or lion prides attack and kill each other? It is because they depend upon their herd or pride for protection and/or food.

But let's make no mistake. Humans, though they depend on others for the same, they can work against the system. They would do the same, . . . and DO . . do the same irregardless of religion. Religious conviction has never, nor will ever, completely keep people from doing wrong things. There is just as much divorce in the church. Why?

Why do good to others? Because people without hope often have nothing to loose. Help them, . . . and they may become upstanding members of society.

I hope you can see how simple it is to understand the purpose of "men behaving".

You are comparing human with animal? Don't you know that we are separate and above animals? Animals act only on the basis of instinct, but human beings are thinking, reasoning coupled with emotions beings.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Progressive revelation -

"Is this trying to say that God changes?"

Nope - what it's saying is that God's SPECIFIC METHOD/FORMAT of interfacing with humanity has changed over time -

That's not to say it "Developed" in the "evolutionary" sense, but only that He did CERTAIN THINGS at CERTAIN TIMES for specific reasons - in order to accomplish his plan which had existed from before there WAS a creation. re: Heb 1:

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

One ASPECT of the Heathen in the Old Testament was that THEY were "Slaves to sin" and they COULD NOT CHANGE (no "Holy Spirit" to indwell). Consequently as members of an evil society, they could only get WORSE, and so ending their degeneration was probably the primary interest of God in doing what he did.

NOW - all humans CAN "Change", and be renewed by the Holy Spirit and have the "law" written on their hearts.

 

[Bazz1040]

Re: Progressive revelation -

"Is this trying to say that God changes?"

Nope - what it's saying is that God's SPECIFIC METHOD/FORMAT of interfacing with humanity has changed over time -

That's not to say it "Developed" in the "evolutionary" sense, but only that He did CERTAIN THINGS at CERTAIN TIMES for specific reasons - in order to accomplish his plan which had existed from before there WAS a creation. re: Heb 1:

What plan is that that you are referring to?

 

[Deavonreye]

we? how natural selection has no intellegence.

we made ourselves? this same men that kill our own children, mass murder.

our society says this money is good.

look at our tv shows that often poke and fellow men's problems
our endorse bad behavior.
Girls Gone Wild
desperate housewives
and also how that add about having an "affair"during the playoffs last year was played that allowed you to do it secretly as a co sold that service.

and what of all this ecomonomic mess? caused by greed by the banks,govt, and homebuyer/seller.

i simply dont see men improving, quite the opposite.

hmm if interested i shall pm you whats going on in canada. as we christians said would be happening. an lo it is.

Humanity occasionally ends up with glitches. The strength of man is our willingness to overcome them. We may very well see another time, shortly, when we will have to walk the hard road to make things right again.

 

[Deavonreye]

You are comparing human with animal? Don't you know that we are separate and above animals? Animals act only on the basis of instinct, but human beings are thinking, reasoning coupled with emotions beings.

Do you actually believe that animals don't reason. . . . or have emotion??? ing

 

[jasoncran]

Do you actually believe that animals don't reason. . . . or have emotion??? ing

emotion yes. but my dog cant contemplate the origins of life.
nor would care too.

 

[jasoncran]

Humanity occasionally ends up with glitches. The strength of man is our willingness to overcome them. We may very well see another time, shortly, when we will have to walk the hard road to make things right again.

history says otherwise.

i see that even in church history as men started out well but fouled it up.

 

[Alabaster]

Humanity occasionally ends up with glitches. The strength of man is our willingness to overcome them. We may very well see another time, shortly, when we will have to walk the hard road to make things right again.

Left to our own devices, we tend to foul up everything. Humanity cannot improve without Godly people. It only degenerates without His influence.

 

[Bazz1040]

Do you actually believe that animals don't reason. . . . or have emotion??? ing

Well then, you do not understand what it means when God said, "Let us make man in our image."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Re: Progressive revelation -

"What plan is that that you are referring to?"

The "plan of salvation" for humanity, of course.

We're involved in the end times now, and in the midst of a period of spiritual restoration which is in process leading up to the end of the age.

 

[Bazz1040]

Re: Progressive revelation -

"What plan is that that you are referring to?"

The "plan of salvation" for humanity, of course.

We're involved in the end times now, and in the midst of a period of spiritual restoration which is in process leading up to the end of the age.

But do you know why God made human beings that He would want to save us?

 

[Deavonreye]

Well then, you do not understand what it means when God said, "Let us make man in our image."

Hmmmm, . . . yes. We DO often take life for granted and find reasons to kill millions. I do my best to not allow my character to be adversely affected by such ideologies.