[__ Science __ ] one reason that abortion is acceptable to us

[miamited]

Hi folks,

This morning I was cooking up some eggs for breakfast. Eggs are the embryos of chickens, right?

We live in a world that teaches that we evolved from chickens. So the logic, of course I'm speaking for those who don't believe that a supernatural being created us in His image, taking the egg from a woman really, morally, isn't any different than going out to the henhouse and collecting eggs.

So there is a lot that we give up when we don't teach that we are, as the Scriptures claim, made in God's image. Animals aren't made in God's image. Honestly, as far as I'm aware, animals weren't created to be eternal beings. So the fact that there may have been death in the animal world, before the sin of man came to be, is a real possibility that would not wholly deny the truth of God's word. Although that's a discussion for another thread.

We need to teach and proclaim that we, human beings, did not evolve from some other life form for whom God really doesn't care for, as He cares for us. Evolution is a lie, as it has any relation to human beings. Now, there may be cases that some change in an animal was caused by some change in DNA or whatever over the last 6,000 years. But honestly, I would say only very, very small changes. As far as there being some whole new 'kind' of animal evolving from some other animal, no, that's never happened. Sure, a fish, still as a fish, may have evolved some adaptation to its fins or scales or something. But for a fish to become a dog ever... Nah!

Anyway, I'm headed off to worship the God who created all this realm and give Him the glory and praise and adoration that He deserves at least once a week from me. Participating with a body of like believers to proclaim that man is different from all the other animals in the created realm because man is created in the image of the one that we praise, worship and adore.

But, in denial of God's truth, we teach that the universe and the earth and all that is on it has existed for millions and billions of years. That allows us to make up all these ideas. But if we stick with what God's word tells us, less than 10,000 years is not enough time for much evolution to take place.

However, as the Scriptures seem to pretty clearly explain, the vast majority of the people who pass by in life on this earth, aren't going to have that worldview. Why not? Because science has 'proven' that it just can't be so.

God bless each and every one of you.
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi folks,

This morning I was cooking up some eggs for breakfast. Eggs are the embryos of chickens, right?

We live in a world that teaches that we evolved from chickens. So the logic, of course I'm speaking for those who don't believe that a supernatural being created us in His image, taking the egg from a woman really, morally, isn't any different than going out to the henhouse and collecting eggs.

So there is a lot that we give up when we don't teach that we are, as the Scriptures claim, made in God's image. Animals aren't made in God's image. Honestly, as far as I'm aware, animals weren't created to be eternal beings. So the fact that there may have been death in the animal world, before the sin of man came to be, is a real possibility that would not wholly deny the truth of God's word. Although that's a discussion for another thread.

We need to teach and proclaim that we, human beings, did not evolve from some other life form for whom God really doesn't care for, as He cares for us. Evolution is a lie, as it has any relation to human beings. Now, there may be cases that some change in an animal was caused by some change in DNA or whatever over the last 6,000 years. But honestly, I would say only very, very small changes. As far as there being some whole new 'kind' of animal evolving from some other animal, no, that's never happened. Sure, a fish, still as a fish, may have evolved some adaptation to its fins or scales or something. But for a fish to become a dog ever... Nah!

Anyway, I'm headed off to worship the God who created all this realm and give Him the glory and praise and adoration that He deserves at least once a week from me. Participating with a body of like believers to proclaim that man is different from all the other animals in the created realm because man is created in the image of the one that we praise, worship and adore.

But, in denial of God's truth, we teach that the universe and the earth and all that is on it has existed for millions and billions of years. That allows us to make up all these ideas. But if we stick with what God's word tells us, less than 10,000 years is not enough time for much evolution to take place.

However, as the Scriptures seem to pretty clearly explain, the vast majority of the people who pass by in life on this earth, aren't going to have that worldview. Why not? Because science has 'proven' that it just can't be so.

God bless each and every one of you.
Ted

Hi Ted,
I agree with the above but it turned my stomach a little.
Will I ever eat another egg????

As to evolving from another species....
We're taught that cavemen existed.
I really don't know if this is true or not.

Just want to say this: IF it's true, I'd be able to accept that cavemen
existed at some point or other, and then God made them to be in His image,
as Genesis states.

The reason I say this is due to the Cambrian Explosian problem that science has.
Evolutionists will insist that this problem is non-existent...even though Darwin himself
said that this is a problem and maybe in HIS future it would be explained away.
It hasn't.

Does the Cambrian Explosion Pose a Challenge to Evolution? - BioLogos

The Cambrian Explosion does present a number of important questions, but it doesn't challenge the fundamental correctness of the central thesis of evolution.

biologos.org

 

[miamited]

Hi GodsGrace

We're taught that cavemen existed.
I really don't know if this is true or not.

I can assure you that there were no humans or animals that existed more than 6,000 years ago. Now if you can work out some kind of caveman existence in that, feel free to do so.

You know, mankind was not just 2 people 100 years after Adam and Eve were created. After 200 years the earth likely had several thousand people living on it. After 400 years the earth likely had at least several hundred thousand people living upon it.

Now as these populations grew, we also know that they began to spread out all over the earth. After all, that's what God had commanded of them, "Go forth and multiply and subdue the earth." Would it be unacceptable that as these people moved from one place to establish lives and homes in other places on the earth, that they may have spent times in caves for protection until suitable habitation could be built? I mean it's not like they just moved to Georgia and found a new apartment. They were wandering on an earth that didn't have anything built anywhere except by them after they settled. Maybe a group of those wanderers found a good cave and lived in it for a while. While they were living there, they wrote things, diagrams on the cave walls. I mean it's not like they could go down to the local Walmart and buy a ream of paper and 10 pack of pencils to write what they wanted to share with others in a notebook.

So, I'm just saying that despite Geico telling us that there were some species of humanoids called cavemen that existed, that's all mostly based on these cave drawings we find. Just imagine, 1,000 years from now what people are going to think about finding little walls with scribbling and pictures all over them. Do you think they'll ever figure out that they were bathroom stalls?

This section is about discussions of science and scientific theories and practices. And my purpose here for this one singular and specific issue of the acceptance of abortion, I believe, has found a lot of its acceptance by a group of us who don't know God and, therefore, see the reproductive system that we have, to be no different, morally, than the reproductive system of cows. Our entire separation from all of the living life that God made upon this earth is that for the one and specific creature that He made called man... He made him in His image. That makes us vastly different than all the cows and pigs and goats and bears and whales and elephants, and the myriad other creatures that God has made. But if you don't believe in Him, or don't have the correct understanding of Him and all that He has done that we might have life, then hey, I can abort my child just as well as I can abort that little chicks life.

Sorry, if I've ruined your enjoyment of eggs for the rest of your life. But remember, those chicks are not made in the image of God and God has given us full permission to eat of any animal that walks upon the earth. It is to be food for us, since as far back as Noah! Now, Israel was given a specific set of dietary instructions and I firmly believe that God did that to keep them separate from the other peoples of the earth. Even today, a devout Jew finds it difficult to eat with a gentile. And Jews see all of us as gentiles, just as I do.

The reason I say this is due to the Cambrian Explosian problem that science has.

What if all of that is a lie? Because for me, understanding the words that God has caused to be written to me concerning the beginning of this realm of His creating, there never was a time on the earth known as the Cambrian Explosion. It's just that godless man has to assure himself that the words of God just can't be true.

And may I point out that you are providing the perfect example of what I'm saying. You are hesitant to believe the words of God as they seem to be plainly written ... because science tells you that it can't be that way. Who will you believe?

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

And please!!!!! I am not anti-science. We live wonderful lives because of all the great things that scientific studies have led us to. But when science begins to study and understand, supposedly, things that happened hundreds of thousands/millions or billions of years ago, then I have serious issues with their methodology and theories. I trust that God has told me the truth. God created the heavens and the earth and ALL THAT IS IN THEM in six days. He tells us that at least 3 times in the Scriptures. Jesus said that there was a beginning, and he relates it to human marriage. That in the beginning it was not so. Do you really believe that he's proclaiming a beginning that occurred millions of years before the first man came to be married? I don't. I believe that the beginning that Jesus referred to was the beginning of this created realm that God made by His own hand and will, in which 6 days after He began, He created two people. That those same two people are the ones that Jesus is referring to as 'in the beginning it was not so'.

We live in a CREATED realm. It didn't coalesce out of space dust over billions of years! God spoke and the earth immediately came to exist as a round planet covered in water. God spoke and filled the universe with stars and other heavenly bodies throughout. However, this power and ability is beyond our simple human comprehension. Which is exactly 'why' the Scriptures tell us that the heavens declare the glory of God. I look into the night sky and just stand in awe that what I'm seeing isn't some willy-nilly working out of a bunch of space dust over billions of years. What I see is the awesome glory and power of a being who can just put all that out there in a moment according to His purposes.

And I don't think that you fully comprehend the mantra of such scientific studies. "We need to find the answer to how we got here". So they go looking at rocks and trees and space and planets and stars and they come up with what seem to be reasonable explanations and they back it with certain theories or ideas and it all seems so right... until we read how God says how and when all that is in this realm of His creating got here.

I believe that God created everything physical that exists. Therefore, I believe that He's the only one that knows the truth of how that actually happened. Not some man who can only look back thousands of years and wonder and study and work out THEORIES as to how and when everything came to exist.

God bless,
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GodsGrace
I can assure you that there were no humans or animals that existed more than 6,000 years ago. Now if you can work out some kind of caveman existence in that, feel free to do so.

You know, mankind was not just 2 people 100 years after Adam and Eve were created. After 200 years the earth likely had several thousand people living on it. After 400 years the earth likely had at least several hundred thousand people living upon it.

Now as these populations grew, we also know that they began to spread out all over the earth. After all, that's what God had commanded of them, "Go forth and multiply and subdue the earth." Would it be unacceptable that as these people moved from one place to establish lives and homes in other places on the earth, that they may have spent times in caves for protection until suitable habitation could be built? I mean it's not like they just moved to Georgia and found a new apartment. They were wandering on an earth that didn't have anything built anywhere except by them after they settled. Maybe a group of those wanderers found a good cave and lived in it for a while. While they were living there, they wrote things, diagrams on the cave walls. I mean it's not like they could go down to the local Walmart and buy a ream of paper and 10 pack of pencils to write what they wanted to share with others in a notebook.

So, I'm just saying that despite Geico telling us that there were some species of humanoids called cavemen that existed, that's all mostly based on these cave drawings we find. Just imagine, 1,000 years from now what people are going to think about finding little walls with scribbling and pictures all over them. Do you think they'll ever figure out that they were bathroom stalls?

This section is about discussions of science and scientific theories and practices. And my purpose here for this one singular and specific issue of the acceptance of abortion, I believe, has found a lot of its acceptance by a group of us who don't know God and, therefore, see the reproductive system that we have, to be no different, morally, than the reproductive system of cows. Our entire separation from all of the living life that God made upon this earth is that for the one and specific creature that He made called man... He made him in His image. That makes us vastly different than all the cows and pigs and goats and bears and whales and elephants, and the myriad other creatures that God has made. But if you don't believe in Him, or don't have the correct understanding of Him and all that He has done that we might have life, then hey, I can abort my child just as well as I can abort that little chicks life.

Sorry, if I've ruined your enjoyment of eggs for the rest of your life. But remember, those chicks are not made in the image of God and God has given us full permission to eat of any animal that walks upon the earth. It is to be food for us, since as far back as Noah! Now, Israel was given a specific set of dietary instructions and I firmly believe that God did that to keep them separate from the other peoples of the earth. Even today, a devout Jew finds it difficult to eat with a gentile. And Jews see all of us as gentiles, just as I do.


What if all of that is a lie? Because for me, understanding the words that God has caused to be written to me concerning the beginning of this realm of His creating, there never was a time on the earth known as the Cambrian Explosion. It's just that godless man has to assure himself that the words of God just can't be true.

And may I point out that you are providing the perfect example of what I'm saying. You are hesitant to believe the words of God as they seem to be plainly written ... because science tells you that it can't be that way. Who will you believe?

God bless,
Ted

Actually, Ted, the cambrian explosion would be in accordance with God having created all the animals.

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll stop here.

I agree with everything you've stated about how believing we come from animals / apes or whatever, does demean humanity and will create all sorts of behavior.

Abortion would fall into this for all the reasons you've stated.

It tends to give us the permission to behave less humanily - if there's such a word.

Looking toward God, instead, lifts us up - where we belong.

 

[miamited]

Hi GodsGrace

Actually, Ted, the cambrian explosion would be in accordance with God having created all the animals.

Uhhhh, no. You'll have to flesh that argument out for me if you want me to consider how you're coming to that conclusion. There wasn't any Cambrian Explosion. Now, one could certainly say that the sudden appearance on the earth within that six days of creation may be described as an explosion of life witnessed, only by God. I mean, in six days the earth gets covered in plants and animals. I'm sure that would have looked like an explosion of all the life on the earth. But that's not what the theory of the Cambrian Explosion teaches.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again GodsGrace

For the record, and those who may be following along. The Cambrian Explosion is believed to have lasted about 50 million years. That's a lot longer than 6 days. So no. The Cambrian Explosion doesn't answer the question of 'how' life came to be upon the earth of God's creating.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Uncle J]

Hi folks,

This morning I was cooking up some eggs for breakfast. Eggs are the embryos of chickens, right?

We live in a world that teaches that we evolved from chickens. So the logic, of course I'm speaking for those who don't believe that a supernatural being created us in His image, taking the egg from a woman really, morally, isn't any different than going out to the henhouse and collecting eggs.

So there is a lot that we give up when we don't teach that we are, as the Scriptures claim, made in God's image. Animals aren't made in God's image. Honestly, as far as I'm aware, animals weren't created to be eternal beings. So the fact that there may have been death in the animal world, before the sin of man came to be, is a real possibility that would not wholly deny the truth of God's word. Although that's a discussion for another thread.

We need to teach and proclaim that we, human beings, did not evolve from some other life form for whom God really doesn't care for, as He cares for us. Evolution is a lie, as it has any relation to human beings. Now, there may be cases that some change in an animal was caused by some change in DNA or whatever over the last 6,000 years. But honestly, I would say only very, very small changes. As far as there being some whole new 'kind' of animal evolving from some other animal, no, that's never happened. Sure, a fish, still as a fish, may have evolved some adaptation to its fins or scales or something. But for a fish to become a dog ever... Nah!

Anyway, I'm headed off to worship the God who created all this realm and give Him the glory and praise and adoration that He deserves at least once a week from me. Participating with a body of like believers to proclaim that man is different from all the other animals in the created realm because man is created in the image of the one that we praise, worship and adore.

But, in denial of God's truth, we teach that the universe and the earth and all that is on it has existed for millions and billions of years. That allows us to make up all these ideas. But if we stick with what God's word tells us, less than 10,000 years is not enough time for much evolution to take place.

However, as the Scriptures seem to pretty clearly explain, the vast majority of the people who pass by in life on this earth, aren't going to have that worldview. Why not? Because science has 'proven' that it just can't be so.

God bless each and every one of you.
Ted

Well Ted, all I can say is that from a scientific perspective, just about everything you posted that relates to evolution and evolutionary biology is just plain wrong.

But I get the sense that being "scientifically accurate" doesn't mean much to you, and instead your priority is ensuring that you're "Biblically accurate". IOW, whenever science and the Bible disagree your default setting is that the Bible is always right, no matter what.

If that's the case, then I suggest you refrain from tying to speak as if you're an authority in science, especially evolutionary biology. If your position is what I described, then just say so and leave it at that. Otherwise, when you go around proclaiming falsehoods in the name of Christianity, all you're doing is damaging Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi again GodsGrace

For the record, and those who may be following along. The Cambrian Explosion is believed to have lasted about 50 million years. That's a lot longer than 6 days. So no. The Cambrian Explosion doesn't answer the question of 'how' life came to be upon the earth of God's creating.

God bless,
Ted

Six days?
You mean you think the universe was created in six days?
You're a fundamentalist Christian in that case.

I'm sorry then. There is no such proof of what you believe.
The universe is about 14 billion years old and the earth is about 4 billion years old.
(not sure about the earth's age).

However, you can believe what you will, I'm not going to argue with you.
The important thing is that you believe in God.

 

[miamited]

Hi Uncle J

Well Ted, all I can say is that from a scientific perspective, just about everything you posted that relates to evolution and evolutionary biology is just plain wrong.

I'll accept that. Since it didn't happen, I'm probably out of step with the subject.

But I get the sense that being "scientifically accurate" doesn't mean much to you,

No, that would be a bad assumption. I'm all about being scientifically accurate. I'm just not about chasing a lie.
I have no problem with the scientific reality that has been tested repeatedly that water boils at 212°. I have no problem with the scientific studies that have been repeatedly tested that clouds are made of water vapor. There is a lot of knowledge that we have that came to us through the scientific method that I am assured is right and good for us.

and instead your priority is ensuring that you're "Biblically accurate". IOW, whenever science and the Bible disagree your default setting is that the Bible is always right, no matter what.

Uh yea. I agree that I am all about the truth and accuracy of the Scriptures. God's words to me. And yes, when science is juxtaposed to what God tells me... I'm going with God.

If that's the case, then I suggest you refrain from tying to speak as if you're an authority in science,

I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression that I was an authority on science? If I did, please accept my apologies. I assure you that I am not. But I do know and trust the truth of what God has caused to be written to me. That's just going to have to be a different worldview that we hold. Your authority is in the knowledge and wisdom of man and mine is in the knowledge and wisdom of God. Especially on this matter of the creation of this realm that we live in that God's word tells us He created in 6 days. Clearly stating that each day consisted of one evening and one morning. That He then caused to be written a list of genealogies that reach from Adam to Abraham that when we add up the ages of the father's as they had a specific son, and then that son's age when he had a specific son, etc. It's a pretty simple and straightforward mathematical calculation.

I believe God's word. I believe in a God that has the power to merely command all things to exist in one moment if that were His choice. But He tells us that did it all in six days, each one consisting of a single morning and evening. That kind of throws out any idea that He is meaning to refer to six millions or billions of years as a single day that somehow only contained one evening and one morning.

So, please, accept my apology if my response gave you the impression that I'm some authority on the scientific method. I really haven't done much scientific work since high school. However, I'm somewhat of an authority on all that is written in God's word to us, and I only deny what science tells me is the 'how' and 'when' we got to be here in 2024, because it doesn't line up with what God has told me is the 'how' and 'why' we got here to 2024.

I know that Satan deceived Eve by getting her to question... did God really say?

Otherwise, when you go around proclaiming falsehoods in the name of Christianity, all you're doing is damaging Christianity.

Friend, that's based on your worldview. I don't believe that I am proclaiming falsehoods, but you do. But I also know that God's word also tells us that those without the Spirit don't understand the things of God. Otherwise, everyone would turn to God and be saved.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Six days?
You mean you think the universe was created in six days?
You're a fundamentalist Christian in that case.

I'm sorry then. There is no such proof of what you believe.
The universe is about 14 billion years old and the earth is about 4 billion years old.
(not sure about the earth's age).

However, you can believe what you will, I'm not going to argue with you.
The important thing is that you believe in God.

Hi again GodsGrace

Oh, I know the universe and all that is in it was created in six days. God says so and he delineated each one as consisting of a single evening and a single morning.

Uh yes, there is the Scriptures that are proof of what I believe.

Apparently, I believe in a more powerful, majestic and awesome God than you do. I also believe in a God who knows the human condition and is quite capable of speaking and explaining His existence and all that He has done as time has moved forward in the created realm of His making.

I do, however, appreciate you ALLOWING me to believe what I believe about God. That's right nice of you. Oh, and I'm perfectly and gladly accepting to be called a fundamentalist christian. Yes, I stand with every word of God's written testimony to me of who He is and all that He has done in creating this realm and providing the way of salvation for those living in this created realm that have turned away from His truth. In all of that, I am a fundamentalist.

However, please don't say that to mean that I'm someone like these people that stand out in the streets telling soldiers that God doesn't love them because of some earthly sin they may have committed. If that were true, no flesh would be saved.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again GodsGrace

So, would I be correct in understanding that you don't believe God could have created all that we see in this realm of His making in six days?

God bless,
Ted

 

[Uncle J]

Hi Uncle J

I'll accept that. Since it didn't happen, I'm probably out of step with the subject.

No, that would be a bad assumption. I'm all about being scientifically accurate. I'm just not about chasing a lie.
I have no problem with the scientific reality that has been tested repeatedly that water boils at 212°. I have no problem with the scientific studies that have been repeatedly tested that clouds are made of water vapor. There is a lot of knowledge that we have that came to us through the scientific method that I am assured is right and good for us.

Uh yea. I agree that I am all about the truth and accuracy of the Scriptures. God's words to me. And yes, when science is juxtaposed to what God tells me... I'm going with God.

I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression that I was an authority on science? If I did, please accept my apologies. I assure you that I am not. But I do know and trust the truth of what God has caused to be written to me. That's just going to have to be a different worldview that we hold. Your authority is in the knowledge and wisdom of man and mine is in the knowledge and wisdom of God. Especially on this matter of the creation of this realm that we live in that God's word tells us He created in 6 days. Clearly stating that each day consisted of one evening and one morning. That He then caused to be written a list of genealogies that reach from Adam to Abraham that when we add up the ages of the father's as they had a specific son, and then that son's age when he had a specific son, etc. It's a pretty simple and straightforward mathematical calculation.

I believe God's word. I believe in a God that has the power to merely command all things to exist in one moment if that were His choice. But He tells us that did it all in six days, each one consisting of a single morning and evening. That kind of throws out any idea that He is meaning to refer to six millions or billions of years as a single day that somehow only contained one evening and one morning.

So, please, accept my apology if my response gave you the impression that I'm some authority on the scientific method. I really haven't done much scientific work since high school. However, I'm somewhat of an authority on all that is written in God's word to us, and I only deny what science tells me is the 'how' and 'when' we got to be here in 2024, because it doesn't line up with what God has told me is the 'how' and 'why' we got here to 2024.

I know that Satan deceived Eve by getting her to question... did God really say?

Friend, that's based on your worldview. I don't believe that I am proclaiming falsehoods, but you do. But I also know that God's word also tells us that those without the Spirit don't understand the things of God. Otherwise, everyone would turn to God and be saved.

God bless,
Ted

I appreciate the time and effort you put into your reply, and I understand where you're coming from. It's pretty consistent with the majority of Christian creationists I've known.

Whenever I come across a creationist such as yourself, the first thing I look for is to see if the framework they're operating under is what we've been discussing, i.e., the Bible is the Word of God and always trumps any findings of science if/when they are in conflict. The vast, vast majority of the time, that's exactly what's going on and as long as the person is open and up front about that, my view is we can agree to disagree, shake hands, and move on.

It's no different than a Mormon who tells me they will always go with what the Book of Mormon says about N. American history over any findings of historians, archaeologists, or geneticists. If that's the way they approach things, good for them.

However, if they (either the creationist or the Mormon) start bashing scientists, insinuate that we're fundamentally dishonest, or imply that we're so unbelievably bad at our jobs that we can't even get the most basic things right, that's when I feel compelled to jump in and....well, fight.

For example, in this thread you've said things like....

Evolution is a lie

But, in denial of God's truth, we teach that the universe and the earth and all that is on it has existed for millions and billions of years. That allows us to make up all these ideas.

[regarding the Cambrian] What if all of that is a lie?

It's just that godless man has to assure himself that the words of God just can't be true.

You make it seem as if scientists just sit around making things up off the top of their heads, all in deliberate service of some sort of anti-Bible, anti-God agenda. You also mentioned that you disagree with their methodologies, when my bet is you don't know the first thing about their actual methods.

Also, as Barbarian will surely eventually tell you (surprised he hasn't weighed in here, since this is kind of his specialty), there are plenty of Christian scientists who work in some of the fields you're disparaging.

You see my point here? It's one thing to say "I believe the Bible is the Word of God, that it teaches the universe and everything in it was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago, and anyone who says otherwise is wrong". It's something else entirely to say "I believe the Bible is the Word of God, that it teaches the universe and everything in it was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago, and scientists who conclude otherwise are just lying and making things up without any evidence at all".

The reality is, we scientists are just people going about our daily work, pretty much like anyone else. We're paid to do a job...a job that we deliberately chose, spent lots of time and money training for, and one that we take quite seriously. Just because some of our conclusions conflict with your religious beliefs doesn't mean we're hostile to those beliefs our plotting against them.

Anyways, I've gone on long enough and hopefully I made my point. Thanks.

 

[miamited]

Hi Uncle J

You make it seem as if scientists just sit around making things up off the top of their heads, all in deliberate service of some sort of anti-Bible, anti-God agenda. You also mentioned that you disagree with their methodologies, when my bet is you don't know the first thing about their actual methods.

Hey, you and I have shared on these boards for a while now and I've always seen you as a reasonable person. I would like to make perfectly clear that the conclusion you have drawn in this instance isn't correct. I don't think that scientists just sit around making things up off the top of their heads. I mean, I think I explained that they spend their time exhaustively studying the rocks and trees and planets and stars. And I think I was pretty clear in my posts that I have pretty much zero training or understanding of the practice of scientific methodology. I've tried to be as honest as I know to be in this specific and individual matter of the creation of the physical realm that God has created that mankind might have life.

But I know a being, who refers to Himself as God in the Scriptures. I have studied the Scriptures diligently. I have researched pretty much all of the prophecies of the Scriptures. Now you not being a believer, there's a lot that you likely don't know about the Scriptures, and basically everything to know about God. Otherwise you'd be a believer or a fool.

I don't want to go too far afield, but if you've got a few minutes, may I share with you what God has revealed to me in His word that causes me to believe that He is and He does know the beginning from the end?

But as far as scientists today willfully lying to us and making things up. I would say that's a ludicrous position.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Uncle J]

Hey, you and I have shared on these boards for a while now and I've always seen you as a reasonable person. I would like to make perfectly clear that the conclusion you have drawn in this instance isn't correct. I don't think that scientists just sit around making things up off the top of their heads. I mean, I think I explained that they spend their time exhaustively studying the rocks and trees and planets and stars. And I think I was pretty clear in my posts that I have pretty much zero training or understanding or the practice of scientific methodology. I've tried to be as honest as I know to be in this specific and individual matter of the creation of the physical realm that God has created that mankind might have life.

Thanks, I appreciate that. And I apologize if I've mischaracterized your views.

But I know a being, who refers to Himself as God in the Scriptures. I have studied the Scriptures diligently. I have researched pretty much all of the prophecies of the Scriptures. Now you not being a believer, there's a lot that you likely don't know about the Scriptures, and basically everything to know about God. Otherwise you'd be a believer or a fool.

I don't want to go too far afield, but if you've got a few minutes, may I share with you what God has revealed to me in His word that causes me to believe that He is and He does know the beginning from the end?

God bless,
Ted

If you're talking about attempting to convert me, evangelize, tell me "the good news", "share Jesus", etc., you can if you like, but as I've said here before, having grown up immersed in Christianity and being around mostly Christians today, I've likely heard it all before.

 

[miamited]

Hi again Uncle J

I wrote this, when I was explaining my training in scientific studies and methodology:

I'm sorry. Did I give you the impression that I was an authority on science? If I did, please accept my apologies. I assure you that I am not.

But I also wrote:

And yes, when science is juxtaposed to what God tells me... I'm going with God.

So, my position isn't that there's some nefarious plot that scientists knowingly are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. My position is that they just don't understand fully what they're looking at. You see, the basic rules that are used to come up with many of the scientific studies that are proving that the universe is billions of years old, are flawed, but not purposefully. They truly believe in their heart of hearts that they're doing the right thing. Just as Eve thought. When Satan approached her about eating the fruit that God had commanded that they not eat, she didn't have any idea that she was setting the entire creation on its head. That once opening that Pandora's Box all of creation and all of us in it, were going to be plunged into the darkness of sin. She thought she was doing well to try the fruit and Satan had put some icing on it by telling her that her eating it would make her like God.

Do you believe that there is truth in all things? That there is a real and true account of everything that has happened?

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again Uncle J

If you're talking about attempting to convert me, evangelize, tell me "the good news", "share Jesus", etc., you can if you like, but as I've said here before, having grown up immersed in Christianity and being around mostly Christians today, I've likely heard it all before.

I promise that I won't even bring up the name of Jesus. I will not make any attempt to convert you. I'm just asking for permission to share with you what I found in the Scriptures that causes my mind to believe that what's written in them is true.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Uncle J]

So, my position isn't that there's some nefarious plot that scientists knowingly are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. My position is that they just don't understand fully what they're looking at. You see, the basic rules that are used to come up with many of the scientific studies that are proving that the universe is billions of years old, are flawed, but not purposefully. They truly believe in their heart of hearts that they're doing the right thing. Just as Eve thought. When Satan approached her about eating the fruit that God had commanded that they not eat, she didn't have any idea that she was setting the entire creation on its head. That once opening that Pandora's Box all of creation and all of us in it, were going to be plunged into the darkness of sin. She thought she was doing well to try the fruit and Satan had put some icing on it by telling her that her eating it would make her like God.

So you believe that, like Eve, we scientists are being deceived by Satan?

Do you believe that there is truth in all things?

Some things yes, other things.....it depends. So like "the earth is a sphere" is truth, whereas "Is Thai food good" may or may not be truth, depending on who you ask.

That there is a real and true account of everything that has happened?

Nope.

I promise that I won't even bring up the name of Jesus. I will not make any attempt to convert you. I'm just asking for permission to share with you what I found in the Scriptures that causes my mind to believe that what's written in them is true.

If you want to share, that's fine.

 

[miamited]

Hi Uncle J

So you believe that, like Eve, we scientists are being deceived by Satan?

Well, it's slightly more involved than that, but that would be the basic premise.

Some things yes, other things.....it depends. So like "the earth is a sphere" is truth, whereas "Is Thai food good" may or may not be truth, depending on who you ask.

Right, I agree that truth in one's personal tastes and opinions on things isn't necessarily truth. But I'm speaking more of the physical things that you look at when you open your eyes. Is there a truth as to how the Sun got to be where it stands in the universe? Is there a truth as to why trees grow up and not down? Is there a truth about how your car came to be made?

Nope.

Ok, I'll bite. What do you know that has happened that there is no truth concerning 'how' it came to happen?

I appreciate your allowing me the opportunity to share some things that I've learned in my 68 years of learning. And I promise that I will not ask you to join with me or mention the name of Jesus. However, I'm going to start a new post on it so it doesn't get confusing with what I've written her.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Barbarian]

Is there a truth as to why trees grow up and not down?

Yes. The mechanism of negative geotropism.

Auxin and geotropism​

Geotropisms​

Phototropism is a response to the stimulus of light, whereas geotropism (also called gravitropism) is a response to the stimulus of gravity
.
Plants responses to gravity:

• when the stem grows against the force of gravity, this is known as a negative geotropism
• when a root grows in the direction of the force of gravity, this is known as a positive geotropism

Just like phototropism, geotropism is also caused by an unequal distribution of auxin.
In a root placed horizontally, the bottom side contains more auxin and grows less - causing the root to grow in the direction of the force of gravity.
The opposite happens in a stem. When a stem placed horizontally, the bottom side contains more auxin and grows more - causing the stem to grow upwards against the force of gravity.

Auxin and geotropism - Plant hormones - AQA - GCSE Biology (Single Science) Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Revise how hormones promote growth within plants for GCSE Biology, AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

One could say that God created trees so that trees would grow up toward the sun and their roots would grow down into the soil.

And that would be right. Botanists know how He did that. Like most evolved traits, it's pretty simple in the way it basically works.