One result of being in union with Christ

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please show where in this passage would I find "false people within the building of God". I'm not seeing it."

Yes it's true people within the building that have become a source of defilement, in which they will be destroyed.

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

I guess my request wasn't understood. There was a comment about "false people" in your post regarding 1 Cor 3, and I can't find anywhere in the passage any reference to "false people".

Whether people defile the temple of God or not, you've not shown where these "false people" are in the passage.

Please advise.

 

[Jim Parker]

Let's get back to following the rules of this forum. Simply replying with a statement effectually saying the other is wrong does not comply with the rules of this forum.

Having posted the scriptures which provide "the rest of the story" multiple times only to have them ignored, I forgot to include the following: "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," (2Ti 3:16. RSV) and not just the snippets of scripture we love to fling about as "proof texts" of our favorite heresies.

Oh well........ mea culpa

Iakov the fool

 

[FreeGrace]

Having posted the scriptures which provide "the rest of the story" multiple times only to have them ignored

Excuse me, but none of them contradicted any of the verses that teach eternal security. And fully reasonable explanations were given for each verse.

I forgot to include the following: "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," (2Ti 3:16. RSV) and not just the snippets of scripture we love to fling about as "proof texts" of our favorite heresies.

Oh well........ mea culpa

Iakov the fool

Amen.

I'd just add that no Scripture contradicts any other Scripture. God's Word is inerrant.

 

[JLB]

I guess my request wasn't understood. There was a comment about "false people" in your post regarding 1 Cor 3, and I can't find anywhere in the passage any reference to "false people".

here it is again:

Yes it's true people [not false] within the building that have become a source of defilement, in which they will be destroyed.

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

 

[Jim Parker]

Excuse me, but none of them contradicted any of the verses that teach eternal security.

YEs they do.
You just do not want to believe anything contrary to what you want to believe.
In you "is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." Mat 13:14
You refuse to see what you don't want to see.

It makes me wonder from where arises this great need you have to believe that you can never loose your salvation no matter what you do.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I guess my request wasn't understood. There was a comment about "false people" in your post regarding 1 Cor 3, and I can't find anywhere in the passage any reference to "false people"."

here it is again:

Yes it's true people [not false] within the building that have become a source of defilement, in which they will be destroyed.

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

Once again, I still don't see any reference to false people in that verse.

I don't even see any reference to "true people".

btw, what is a "false person" as opposed to a "true person"?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Excuse me, but none of them contradicted any of the verses that teach eternal security."

YEs they do.

Well then, this is the source of our disagreement. I reject the notion that Scripture contradicts itself.

You just do not want to believe anything contrary to what you want to believe.

This opinion is condescending. I have provided very clear verses on eternal security. I can reasonably explain ALL the verses provided by the loss of salvation folk. None of their verses contradict the verses on eternal security.

It makes me wonder from where arises this great need you have to believe that you can never loose your salvation no matter what you do.

My needs are met in Scripture. I believe what Scripture says. And it doesn't ANYWHERE say that one can lose salvation. In fact, it promises just the opposite.

Scripture SAYS that eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23
Scripture SAYS that God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29

All the twisting done in order to try to dissociate Rom 6:23 from Rom 11:29 is nothing less than amazing.

Since eternal life is a gift of God, AND
since God's gifts are irrevocable, THEREFORE
eternal life is irrevocable.

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"I guess my request wasn't understood. There was a comment about "false people" in your post regarding 1 Cor 3, and I can't find anywhere in the passage any reference to "false people"."

Once again, I still don't see any reference to false people in that verse.

I don't even see any reference to "true people".

btw, what is a "false person" as opposed to a "true person"?

Based on the language used in this quote by Jethro... I'm saying it will be [true] Christian's, who will be destroyed by God, as opposed to [false] Christians.

In the similar analogy of the building in 1 Corinthians 3:12-17, false people within the building of God will be destroyed and cast into the furnace of fire.

It will be Christians who are destroyed by God, if they defile God's people, who are the Temple.

You just can't explain that truth away.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

Just as you can't explain away the fact that those who are "in Christ", can end up being thrown into the fire and burned if they don't remain "in Him".


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

JLB

 

[JLB]

Excuse me, but none of them contradicted any of the verses that teach eternal security.

No such phrase in the bible as eternal security.


This is man made.



JLB

 

[chessman]

It will be Christians who are destroyed by God ...

Even as Paul specifically tells Christians they will be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:15 (LEB) If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.​

It's their (our) fleshy/immature works that defile Christians (the temple of God) who have been made Holy by God and in which God dwells. And thusly it's their fleshly/immature works that eventually get destroyed, not the person himself, clearly.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3, 9, 13, 19-20 (LEB) And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual people, but as to fleshly people, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, for you were not yet able to eat it. But now you are still not able, for you are still fleshly. For where there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and do you not live like unregenerate people? For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written, “The one who catches the wise in their craftiness,” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” ​

The truth is; All the fleshly/immature works of Christians will burned up, but he himself will be saved. You just can't explain that truth away. Why???

Because the truth is; Christians are Christ’s and Christ is God’s.

 

[JLB]

Even as Paul specifically tells Christians they will be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:15 (LEB) If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

The work is people.

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Those who defile, God will destroy.


JLB

 

[chessman]

The work is people.

Nah. The Temple is people.
The work is the fleshly/foolish/immature/weak/boastful so-called 'wisdom' of the people. Holy people, created and chosen by God, yet occasionally defiling THEMSEVLES by saying things like; “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos

1 Corinthians 1:19, 27-29 (LEB) For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will confound.” But the foolish things of the world God chose in order that he might put to shame the wise, and the weak things of the world God chose in order that he might put to shame the strong, and the insignificant of the world, and the despised, God chose, the things that are not, in order that he might abolish the things that are, so that all flesh may not boast before God.
​

 

[FreeGrace]

Based on the language used in this quote by Jethro... I'm saying it will be [true] Christian's, who will be destroyed by God, as opposed to [false] Christians.

I STILL don't see any words that even suggest "true" vs "false" Christians. Please help me out.

It will be Christians who are destroyed by God, if they defile God's people, who are the Temple.

The Bible frequently uses the word "destroy" to refer to physical death.

Just one example:
Gen 6:13 - So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

How about another one:
Gen 6:17 - I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Or what Jesus said about Himself:
Matt 26:60-61 - Finally two came forward 61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'"
Matt 27:40 - and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"

So obviously, the word 'destroy' can mean physical death. And, yes, one of God's means of divine discipline IS physical death, per 1 John 5:16. And 1 Cor 11:30.

You just can't explain that truth away.

What I've done is to explain the truth.

Just as you can't explain away the fact that those who are "in Christ", can end up being thrown into the fire and burned if they don't remain "in Him".

I've repeatedly explained that truth.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

JLB

Fellowship is the meaning of 'to abide in Me'.

Truth: unless a believer is in fellowship with Christ, he cannot bear fruit. Clear as a bell.

 

[FreeGrace]

No such phrase in the bible as eternal security.
This is man made.

Just as the word "trinity" isn't in the Bible and is man made. But the truth is still the truth. God is Triune (2 Cor 13:14), and eternal life is irrevocable (Rom 6:23 and 11:29).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please show where in this passage would I find "false people within the building of God". I'm not seeing it.

The parts made of hay, wood, and stubble...

"12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work." (1 Corinthians 3:12-13 NASB)

Perishable materials in the building of God will not survive the fires of Judgment. They will be as chaff that gets burned up and blown away:

4The wicked are not so,
But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
5Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. (Psalm 1:4-5 NASB bold mine))

14“Behold, they have become like stubble,
Fire burns them;
They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame (Isaiah 47:14 NASB bold mine)

11“You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;
My breath will consume you like a fire.
12“The peoples will be burned to lime,
Like cut thorns which are burned in the fire." (Isaiah 33:11-12 NASB bold mine)

"as a tongue of fire consumes stubble
And dry grass collapses into the flame,
So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust;
For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts
And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel." (Isaiah 5:24 NASB bold mine)

(There's another reference but it escapes me at the moment.)

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"Please show where in this passage would I find "false people within the building of God". I'm not seeing it."

The parts made of hay, wood, and stubble...

The foundation, which is Christ, is built with materials, not peoples.

"12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work." (1 Corinthians 3:12-13 NASB)

Perishable materials in the building of God will not survive the fires of Judgment. They will be as chaff that gets burned up and blown away:

Yes, I agree. But why would one believe that building materials equal people? It makes much more sense to understand "man's work" as "man's efforts". And we have 2 choices. Our efforts can come from our sin nature, or from our new nature. Man's work that comes from his sin nature are the wood, hay and stubble, and will be burned up. But man's work that comes from his new nature are the gold, silver and gems, and will be rewarded.

4The wicked are not so,
But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
5Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. (Psalm 1:4-5 NASB bold mine))

14“Behold, they have become like stubble,
Fire burns them;
They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame (Isaiah 47:14 NASB bold mine)

11“You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;
My breath will consume you like a fire.
12“The peoples will be burned to lime,
Like cut thorns which are burned in the fire." (Isaiah 33:11-12 NASB bold mine)

"as a tongue of fire consumes stubble
And dry grass collapses into the flame,
So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust;
For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts
And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel." (Isaiah 5:24 NASB bold mine)

(There's another reference but it escapes me at the moment.)

Since there is no contextual relationship between 1 Cor 3;14,15 with any of these OT verses, they are not relevant to 1 Cor 3:14,15.

People are not 'man's work'. Man's work may result in saved people, but it is not people.

 

[chessman]

It makes much more sense to understand "man's work" as "man's efforts".

Not only does it make much more sense, it's explicitly stated:

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 (LEB) According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must direct his attention to how he is building upon it. For no one is able to lay another foundation than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.​

Paul's skilled work was to preach/teach Christ.
Appollos' work was to refute the non-Christian Jews who were claiming Jesus was not the Christ (Messiah).

Acts 18:28 For he was vigorously refuting the Jews in public, demonstrating through the scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.
​

God's work was to make the temple grow:

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing it to grow. ​

 

[JLB]

Just as the word "trinity" isn't in the Bible and is man made. But the truth is still the truth. God is Triune (2 Cor 13:14), and eternal life is irrevocable (Rom 6:23 and 11:29).

No such phrase as eternal security in the bible, as it's an unbiblical phrase that is not found in the bible.

You have posted no scripture that proves what you are saying.

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:29

No eternal security here.

I guess that's why you don't post the scripture itself, because the truth is the truth, and there is no eternal security found in Romans 6:29


29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

No eternal security here.

I guess that's why you don't post the scripture itself, because the truth is the truth, and there is no eternal security found in Romans 11:29


6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Once a person is in union with Christ, they must remain in Him, or be gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The Bible frequently uses the word "destroy" to refer to physical death.

Just one example:
Gen 6:13 - So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

How about another one:
Gen 6:17 - I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Or what Jesus said about Himself:
Matt 26:60-61 - Finally two came forward 61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'"
Matt 27:40 - and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"

So obviously, the word 'destroy' can mean physical death. And, yes, one of God's means of divine discipline IS physical death, per 1 John 5:16. And 1 Cor 11:30.

The context is what dictates.

Example:

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10


17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

Is defiling or corrupting God's people with heresy, or sexual immorality, or idolatry and the like, an example of obeying the Gospel or disobeying the Gospel?


JLB



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

No such phrase as eternal security in the bible, as it's an unbiblical phrase that is not found in the bible.

Which is why I responded with this:
"Just as the word "trinity" isn't in the Bible and is man made. But the truth is still the truth. God is Triune (2 Cor 13:14), and eternal life is irrevocable (Rom 6:23 and 11:29)."

You have posted no scripture that proves what you are saying.

Claims are cheap. The Bible teaches from Rom 6:23 that eternal life is a gift of God. The Bible teaches from Rom 11:29 that God's gifts are irrevocable.

I must conclude from your comment here that either Rom 6:23 or 11:29 isn't Scripture in your view.

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:29

No eternal security here.

Everyone is free to see whatever they want to see. Or not see.

Which is why the great prophet Isaiah said this:
Acts 28:26-27
26 "'Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." 27 For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

I guess that's why you don't post the scripture itself, because the truth is the truth, and there is no eternal security found in Romans 6:29

I never said anything about Rom 6:29, for the obvious reason that there is no such verse. I quote and cite actual verses, not non verses, as you've done here.

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

No eternal security here.

Since eternal life is a gift of God and God's gifts are irrevocable, THEREFORE eternal life is irrevocable.

I guess that's why you don't post the scripture itself, because the truth is the truth, and there is no eternal security found in Romans 11:29

Not only have I repeatedly quoted the verses, even when I have only cited them, anyone is able to place their cursor over the citation and see the verse for themselves.

So your charges are empty of truth.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Once a person is in union with Christ, they must remain in Him, or be gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.
JLB

Several points:
1. You've not shown that "abiding in Me" refers to being in union with Christ. And such a notion would suggest that we are in charge of being in union with Christ and have the power to change it, which is totally false. Eph 1:13-14 teaches that God seals the believer with the Holy Spirit, and even tells us the purpose of this sealing: it's for the day of redemption.
Eph 1:13-14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 until the redemption of those who are God's possession —who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

These verses refute your interpretation of John 15:1-6.

2. You've failed to provide any verses that teach that the Holy Spirit can be removed from any believer for any reason. In fact, Jesus taught that the promised Holy Spirit would be with us FOREVER. Another guarantee.

3. Jesus promised to those He gives eternal life that they WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28. If there is any doubt on your part, just place your cursor over the citation and read it for yourself.

So, since the Bible promises that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever, and those with eternal life will never perish, it's quite clear that the Bible teaches eternal security, just as clear as the Bible teaching the Trinity, even though the word doesn't occur in Scripture.