One result of being in union with Christ

[Jethro Bodine]

Romans 8:35 (LEB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction or distress or persecution or hunger or lack of sufficient clothing or danger or the sword?
​

Interesting how Paul answered his rhetorical question versus how others do.

​

Notice, unbelief is not in the list.

" 31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:31-39 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

None of the assumptions of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken or that salvation can be lost have been proven from Scripture.

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

"13Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 14Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you." (2 Timothy 1:13-14 NASB)


"8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire." (Matthew 18: NASB)

"5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Sadly, some believers assume that being "in Christ" can be lost by a number of means."

No, just one.......unbelief.

Unbelief effectively ends Christ's intercession for you in heaven. Hebrews 7:25 NASB shows us how that intercession MUST continue on behalf of the believer. And Paul tells us that Christ is secured through our faith (Romans 5:1 NIV). It's not secured through nothing at all, or a faith that no longer exists. Christ's ongoing ministry for the believer is secured through faith. Unbelief ends a person's access to the ministry of Christ in the heaven that MUST continue on behalf of a person for them to be saved.

 

[chessman]

Notice, unbelief is not in the list.

There's a good reason for that. It's not one of those things to come.

"Unbelief" was not found "in Christ" nor in the "things to come" for those who are "in Christ". He's the one that intercedes for us, remember???

Romans 8:34, 38 (LEB) Who is the one who condemns? Christ is the one who died, and more than that, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
...
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,​

 

[ezra]

Well then you missed part of it.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

It's also for correction, reproof, doctrine, and instruction in righteousness, so that the believer will learn to conduct himself in righteousness, and not walk in unrighteousness, in which he will be denied access to God's Kingdom, on that Day.

Here is one of many examples:

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


JLB

but we leave out a important part q And such were some of you: but rye are washed, but sye are sanctified, but tye are justified uin the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.:amen

 

[Jim Parker]

Notice, unbelief is not in the list.

Neither is apostasy.
Heb 6:4-6 (RSV) For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

Apparently, some Bibles don't have any of the many verses that say you can definitely loose your salvation.
The verses are there; they're just invisible to elect people who are predestined to be blind to the truth.

iakov the fool

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Sadly, some believers assume that being "in Christ" can be lost by a number of means."

None of the assumptions of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken or that salvation can be lost have been proven from Scripture.

You keep saying that.

Because it's true.

You are deceived and happy to be so.

You keep saying that. Prove it for once.

 

[FreeGrace]

chessman said: ↑
Romans 8:35 (LEB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction or distress or persecution or hunger or lack of sufficient clothing or danger or the sword?
Interesting how Paul answered his rhetorical question versus how others do.

Notice, unbelief is not in the list.

What is interesting is that Paul covered every possible scenario that could be considered something that could separate us from the love of Christ. In v. 38 he even included "things to come". iow, there is NOTHING in the future that can separate the believer from the love of Christ.

Yet, that is the very foundation of the conditional security view. There ARE things that WILL cause loss of salvation, and result in eternal separation from God, or spiritual death. Such things would be "things to come".

" 31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:31-39 NASB

Paul covered every possible event that could be considered able to separate us from Christ's love. And his conclusion is that there are NO SUCH CONDITIONS.

 

[FreeGrace]

I siad this:
"None of the assumptions of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken or that salvation can be lost have been proven from Scripture."

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

"13Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 14Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you." (2 Timothy 1:13-14 NASB)


"8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire." (Matthew 18: NASB)

"5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB)

Since this passage does NOT contain ANY warning of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken, or salvation lost, please direct me to any passage or verse that actually says such a thing.

 

[JLB]

but we leave out a important part q And such were some of you: but rye are washed, but sye are sanctified, but tye are justified uin the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.:amen

Yes this scripture is warning born again Christians, about associating with immoral Christians in the Church.

I couldn't agree more.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
""Sadly, some believers assume that being "in Christ" can be lost by a number of means.""

No, just one.......unbelief.[/QUOTE]
And what verse says that being in Christ can be lost by unbelief?? Please advise.

Unbelief effectively ends Christ's intercession for you in heaven.

Without any Scriptural reference, this is merely an opinion, or an assumption.

Hebrews 7:25 NASB shows us how that intercession MUST continue on behalf of the believer.

Please exegete the verse to show that your opinion is supported.

Here's the verse:
Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Instead of your views, I read that Christ is able to save COMPLETELY those (saved ones) who have come to God through Him. And the reason is given; because He ALWAYS LIVES to intercede for them (saved ones).

I see nothing that supports your opinion.

And Paul tells us that Christ is secured through our faith (Romans 5:1 NIV). It's not secured through nothing at all, or a faith that no longer exists.

This assumes that we are saved by continuing faith. Which has been thoroughly disproven and refuted by the FACT that Paul and Jesus both used the aorist tense for "believe" regarding salvation a number of times.

If one must continually believe in order to continue to be saved, where is that verse that says so?

Christ's ongoing ministry for the believer is secured through faith. Unbelief ends a person's access to the ministry of Christ in the heaven that MUST continue on behalf of a person for them to be saved.

Your opinions and assumptions have not been shown from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

Neither is apostasy.

Covered by "things to come" in Rom 8:38. Therefore, even when a believer loses faith in the future, that will NOT separate him/her from the love of Christ.

Apparently, some Bibles don't have any of the many verses that say you can definitely loose your salvation.

Actually, no Bible has ANY such verse. Fake news alert!!

The verses are there; they're just invisible to elect people who are predestined to be blind to the truth.

Oh, I see. God predestined certain believers to be blind to truth. Please direct me to any verse that teaches that God blinds any believer to the truth.

Interesting view. But weird, just the same.

 

[Jim Parker]

Please direct me to any verse that teaches that God blinds any believer to the truth.

again?
Why??
You never understand any scripture I give you that doesn't agree with your OSAS perspective.
Why bother telling you anything you refuse to know?

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes this scripture is warning born again Christians, about associating with immoral Christians in the Church.

I couldn't agree more.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7JLB

Why should anyone think this passage teaches loss of salvation? Which verse teaches loss of salvation?

I should think that everyone is fully aware that the words "inheritance" and "entrance" are totally different words, with totally different meanings.

So, why should anyone ASSUME that "has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God" means the same thing as "has any entrance in the kingdom of Christ and God"?

So, please explain how "inheritance" and "entrance" means the same thing.

Or, admit that not having any inheritance IN the kingdom has nothing to do with having no entrance into the kingdom.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please direct me to any verse that teaches that God blinds any believer to the truth."

again?
Why??
You never understand any scripture I give you that doesn't agree with your OSAS perspective.

Since I've always explained what verses mean or teach, how can anyone legitimately say that I don't understand any verse you've given to me??

This is just double talk to camouflage the fact that the verses I've repeatedly given on eternal security cannot be explained by your side.

Why bother telling you anything you refuse to know?
.

 

[JLB]

I siad this:
"None of the assumptions of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken or that salvation can be lost have been proven from Scripture."

Since this passage does NOT contain ANY warning of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken, or salvation lost, please direct me to any passage or verse that actually says such a thing.

Since you have posted any such scripture about the seal of the Spirit, your objection is irrelevant, as is your theory.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2




JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Since I've always explained what verses mean or teach,

You have repeatedly mangled those verses in a clumsy attempt to force them to say what they very clearly do NOT say.
You have memorized the canned responses which those who adhere to your particular Theology are trained to spout like one of Pavlov's dogs. That is not "explaining" anything. It's the technique that heretical groups use to keep people from thinking.

 

[Jim Parker]

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

And; Jhn 15:6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
It doesn't get any clearer than that.
Branches that are cut off do not abide in Christ.
If anyone is not in Christ, he does not have eternal life, even though he once did have it. He is cut off from Christ; dead in his sins and can expect condemnation at the judgment
Unfortunately, that very simple concept is impossible to understand if one is thoroughly dedicated to not understanding.

iakov the fool

 

[JLB]

Why should anyone think this passage teaches loss of salvation?

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• If you think partaking of the wrath of God means salvation, then it is obvious why you can't understand.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8


JLB

 

[JLB]

And; Jhn 15:6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
It doesn't get any clearer than that.
Branches that are cut off do not abide in Christ.
If anyone is not in Christ, he does not have eternal life, even though he once did have it. He is cut off from Christ; dead in his sins and can expect condemnation at the judgment
Unfortunately, that very simple concept is impossible to understand if one is thoroughly dedicated to not understanding.

iakov the fool