Bible Study Only 2 Churches ...in the World Today

[Orthodox Christian]

You better check your source a little closer, Jay T, the Rapture is a Protestant doctrine- Catholics and Orthodox are pretty much Amillenialist.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves-
Firstly, the whole thread is a troll.

Secondly, I knew what you meant immediately, Jay T, as I recognize you as a beautifully sycophantic disciple of EG White and the cultic variety of the SDA.

Yes, the one and only true Church, the Adventists. Based upon what? What day they worship. Not based upon who does works of charity and peace, not based upon fealty to the message of Christ, not based on continuity with the Apostle's doctrine- the SDAs are the only heaven dwellers because they're open for business on Saturday, and would never imagine worshipping on the first day of the week.

Everyone else is a part of the beast and is going to hell- but good news- in the SDA world, it's not forever and ever, just a quick zap and you do no longer exist.

 

[Heidi]

The only true church is composed of born again Christians who follow the bible and no one else.

 

[cj]

And easy way to recognize the daughters of the mother is in their ways.

To take a name for themself that is something other than Christ is one way to recognize the lineage of the mother, and the SDA most certainly has taken a name other than Christ.

Yet so has the Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc, etc...., the upliftment of the doctrines of men, the building of many towers to reach God by self-effort.

And God hates it and will utterly destroy it.

And "it" is just Babylon, the earthly head of which is found in Rome.

There is only one Church, that which our Lord said He will build, and is building. Just one. Everything else is a lie.

Yet, the Jews who lived in Babylon were still considered by God to be His people even though they were not living in the promised land and His city lay in ruins.

Daniel himself never returned. But God certainly loved Daniel.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Ah yes, one of these assures us that salvation is found in the sequence of the week, the other assures us that salvation is found by remaining nameless and unattached.

Each of these speak boldly, yet ignorantly (a classic combination) of the judgement of God: one says that judgement befalls they who worship on Sunday, the other assures us that God has judged the whole of Christianity...

Predictably, each prophesies from within the remnant and against the unwashed duped masses.

 

[cj]

Ah yes, one of these assures us that salvation is found in the sequence of the week, the other assures us that salvation is found by remaining nameless and unattached.

Each of these speak boldly, yet ignorantly (a classic combination) of the judgement of God: one says that judgement befalls they who worship on Sunday, the other assures us that God has judged the whole of Christianity...

Predictably, each prophesies from within the remnant and against the unwashed duped masses.

We can depend on the offended feelings of OC to show through his speaking can't we.

What we have here is a case of placing to much importance on a cause.

See, Christianity is nothing, only Christ is something. Read your bible OC.... prayerfully and with a unbound heart. And may the Lord have mercy on you.

God doesn't need Christianity to accomplish anything He desires, at least, not in a positive way.

When Christ returns, is He going to take up residence in some denomination's headquarters? Is He going to depend on icons and other such imagery to gain the attention of folks?

Naaahh. He knows His presence is all that is necessary.

And, I said nothing about worshipping the Lord on a Sunday, as I am fully convinced that we are a "first day" people, having risen up with our Lord on this day. But the vain pomp and pagentry associated with the certain meeting of believers is nothing less than demonic manifestation.

Your quickness in speaking the wrong thing is just further indication of the offences you carry and thus speak out of.

Yet, there remains a definite, and obvious to those who can see, common ground among the many groups of believers who are held captive within the walls of Christianity...... the desire to serve the flesh.


Its ironic that you highlight the term "the masses", as God's word has contiually shown that it is among the "masses" that the worst falling away is found.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Ah yes, one of these assures us that salvation is found in the sequence of the week, the other assures us that salvation is found by remaining nameless and unattached.

"nameless and unattached."....... Amen, Lord...... keep me nameless before men and unattached to this world, that only your Name is know and only your kingdom is seen.


What can one say......... I am constantly speaking the Lord's name on these threads, yet all this rich one can say of me is that I am declaring a way of namelessness and unattachment.

I ask you folks, can this type of speaking be from any other source than Satan?

In love,
cj

 

[Jay T]

You better check your source a little closer, Jay T, the Rapture is a Protestant doctrine-

Oh come now, you know as well as I that the Rapture theory was 'invented' by a Catholic Priest named Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), in a effort to counter the Protestant Reformation.

Secondly, I knew what you meant immediately, Jay T, as I recognize you as a beautifully sycophantic disciple of EG White and the cultic variety of the SDA.

Only the enemies of God call, the SDA church a cult (Revelation 12:17).

the one and only true Church, the Adventists. Based upon what? Revelation 14:12 & Revelation 12:17......ect...ect....ect.And, let's not forget the 7th day Baptists.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

[quote="Orthodox Christian":299ff]You better check your source a little closer, Jay T, the Rapture is a Protestant doctrine-

Oh come now, you know as well as I that the Rapture theory was 'invented' by a Catholic Priest named Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), in a effort to counter the Protestant Reformation.
[/quote:299ff]
1. What, pray tell, is the eschatological position of the Catholic Church? Answer: Essentially Amillenialist.
2. Ribera is not the 'father' of the rapture
owned

Secondly, I knew what you meant immediately, Jay T, as I recognize you as a beautifully sycophantic disciple of EG White and the cultic variety of the SDA. Only the enemies of God call, the SDA church a cult (Revelation 12:17).

Wow, that response has Jim Jones written all over it.

The SDAs keep the Mosaic commands. Jesus told the Apostles in Matthew 28 to teach all that He commanded, which included gathering to worship on the day of Resurrection.
John 20:1-18, John 20:19-23, John 20:26-29; Acts 2

There are Christians who keep the commands of God with the martyria of Christ, among them, my brethren the Orthodox Christians. There are others, and they can attest for themselves.

the one and only true Church, the Adventists. Based upon what? Revelation 14:12 & Revelation 12:17......ect...ect....ect.And, let's not forget the 7th day Baptists.

If keeping commands alone is the province of the True Church, then Paul and the Apostles failed at Jerusalem, and the Judaizers were correct.
This we know as the heresy of Pelagianism.

We Orthodox keep the Sabbath, yet it is not the Sabbath that makes us followers of His commands- for His commands are clear: Love Him, and love His.

To the degree we follow those, we do well.

 

[cj]

...... yet it is not the Sabbath that makes us followers of His commands- for His commands are clear: Love Him, and love His.

To the degree we follow those, we do well.

Well said....... but, in a real sense it is the Sabbath that makes us followers...... for He Himself is the true Sabbath. And He Himself is our virtue.

And yes, to the degree that we possess Him, we thus follow Him and do well.

This is all that God is to us, just Christ as our virtue, our joy, and our faith.

And having this there is need for nothing else.


In love,
cj

 

[Jay T]

Well said....... but, in a real sense it is the Sabbath that makes us followers...... for He Himself is the true Sabbath. And He Himself is our virtue.

And yes, to the degree that we possess Him, we thus follow Him and do well.

This is all that God is to us, just Christ as our virtue, our joy, and our faith.

And having this there is need for nothing else.

OK, where does the following Bible verse fit into, the scheme of God's Plan of salvation......
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Servant_2000]

Well said....... but, in a real sense it is the Sabbath that makes us followers...... for He Himself is the true Sabbath. And He Himself is our virtue.

And yes, to the degree that we possess Him, we thus follow Him and do well.

This is all that God is to us, just Christ as our virtue, our joy, and our faith.

And having this there is need for nothing else.

OK, where does the following Bible verse fit into, the scheme of God's Plan of salvation......
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

When John wrote verse 1 John 2:3 he made no mistake in his words: " I know him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him" that is, they who follow the teachings of Jesus Messiah;

You bring the Ten Commandments written in stone. You bring the Hagar covenant. You bring the bondage of works. Those of us who are saved by grace through faith will come boldly in with the doctrine and teachings of Jesus.

Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, to keep what He has commanded are the Commandments of the New Covenant. Jesus no where taught the keeping of the Ten Commandments as the faith of the New Testament Church.

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after His commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

I choose to walk after 'His Commandments". We are commanded to walk in His Commandments as John said from the beginning of the Messianic age. As a Gentile you cannot be justified by the old Law or Commandments in any part. Gentiles have no obligation to the Law and they had no provisions for atonement under the Law.

Now it is just Jesus, ...His Commandments. If you accept by faith His doctrine and salvation, then take up your cross and follow Him. Nail to your cross all that he nailed to His! Turn to Acts 2:38 and see how to become a convert to the Christianity of Jesus Messiah and begin a life of following Jesus and His Commandments.

Moses knew that what he gave as Commandments and the Law would be superceded by the Messiah Prophet when He came. He knew that when Messiah came His word would become the salvation of the nation. He also knew that if anyone rejected what the Messiah commanded, they would be destroyed. Moses did not put the Commandments above that of the coming Messiah's Commandments. Neither should you. If the Law was the plan of salvation then there would be no need for Jesus, Calvary, and a New Covenant of New Commandments replacing the old. But Hagar (Mount Sinai), and her children in bondage, are kicked out. She and her children shall not dwell in the house of the promised seed (Galatians 4:21-26). Whoso readeth let him understand.

Rest (sabbath) in Jesus there is salvation in none other. Live for the Lord every day of the week and worship your God any time you want. Come into the New Covenant and the Commandments of Jesus Messiah. Read Acts 2:38-39 to discover how. These Commandments of Jesus our God will give you entry into the New Jerusalem:

 

[Jay T]

[You bring the Ten Commandments written in stone.

Had you studied the Bible.....you'd have known that it was CHRIST that wrote the 10 commandments...on Mt Sinai.

Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, to keep what He has commanded are the Commandments of the New Covenant. Jesus no where taught the keeping of the Ten Commandments as the faith of the New Testament Church.

Again, had you read your Bible:
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe [all things] whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen".

OK, tell me where, Jesus Christ told anyone to keep Sunday, as a day of worship.

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after His commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

I choose to walk after 'His Commandments". We are commanded to walk in His Commandments as John said from the beginning of the Messianic age.

Again you twist scripture....Jesus did not...say Messianic age !

Had you read your Bible you'd have known that the Sabbath was created in the beginning (by Christ HIMSELF), of the very first week (Genesis 2:2,3)

Moses knew that what he gave as Commandments and the Law would be superceded by the Messiah Prophet when He came.

Is that why Jesus said....Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

He knew that when Messiah came His word would become the salvation of the nation. He also knew that if anyone rejected what the Messiah commanded, they would be destroyed. Moses did not put the Commandments above that of the coming Messiah's Commandments. Neither should you.

Do you understand what Jesus says in the following Bible verse..... Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
'one rose from the dead'....Jesus, speaking about Himself ?

If the Law was the plan of salvation then there would be no need for Jesus, Calvary, and a New Covenant of New Commandments replacing the old.

Whatever gave you the idea that God's (Christ's) commandments needed changing ?

The Bible tells us the that Law of God was PERFECT (Psalms 19:7).

Paul tells us the God's (Christ's) Law was, holy...just...and good, (Romans 7:12).

Whatever gave you the idea that not stealing...not lying...not killing ...were bad laws ?

These Commandments of Jesus our God will give you entry into the New Jerusalem:

You said it...Jesus, 'our GOD'...the one who wrote the 10 commandments on Mt Sinai. Revelation 22:14 "Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city".
Interesting that this is the very thing Jesus told people in Matthew.... 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Well said....... but, in a real sense it is the Sabbath that makes us followers...... for He Himself is the true Sabbath. And He Himself is our virtue.

And yes, to the degree that we possess Him, we thus follow Him and do well.

This is all that God is to us, just Christ as our virtue, our joy, and our faith.

And having this there is need for nothing else.

OK, where does the following Bible verse fit into, the scheme of God's Plan of salvation......
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Which part of this did you not understand Jay T? We have addressed the commands of God you keep referencing.

for His commands are clear: Love Him, and love His.

To the degree we follow those, we do well.

 

[cj]

OK, where does the following Bible verse fit into, the scheme of God's Plan of salvation......
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

JayT,

The commandments of Jesus are far higher than that which was commanded in the law of Moses.

Moses said "if you murder", Jesus said "if you even think in anger."

Moses said "if you commit adultry", Jesus said "if you even think lustfully."

The requirement of the commandments of Moses' law was according to an outward participation, the requirement of Jesus' commandments is according to an inward participation.

What sacrifice is there for thinking angrily or lustfully? What offering can be made for a sinful thought? Who can keep from thinking sinful things?

And if one thinks a sinful thought, then one is guilty of breaking all the commandments.

What we are told in the NT is that the governing law/commandments that a believer is under, is far higher than that which the Jews were under.

And why? Because the old dealt with the flesh of a man, whereas the new deals with the spirit of a man. And the spirit of a man is above the flesh.


1 John 2:3, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Following the principle that I do regarding understanding the scriptures, lets look at the opening speaking of the chapter so that we might gain the overview of what John's focus was for the chapter.....

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous; And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world."

"My little children,..."...... The Greek word for "little children" was often used by older persons in addressing younger ones. "It is a term of parental affection. It applies to Christians irrespective of growth. Used in vv. 12, 28; 3:7, 18; 4:4; 5:21; John 13:33; Gal. 4:19" (Darby). The aged apostle considered all the recipients of his Epistle his dear little children in the Lord. In vv. 13-27 he classified them into three groups: young children, young men, and fathers. Verses 1-12 and 28-29 are addressed to all the recipients in general, and vv. 13-27 to the three groups respectively, according to their growth in the divine life.

So we can know that John was speaking to all ages and levels of spiritual growth, and that his particular overall thought for this chapter was focused on spiritual growth.

"these things,.." ..... The "things" mentioned in chapter 1:5-10, regarding the committing of sin by the children of God, the regenerated believers, who have the divine life and participate in its fellowship (1:1-4).

Therefore, we can know that whatever is found in chapter 2, must be understood in the light of what was written in chapter 1, with particular reference to that which is found in verses 5 - 10.

"that you may not sin...." .... This word and. "if anyone sins" in the succeeding sentence, indicate that the regenerated believers can still sin. Though they possess the divine life, it is still possible for them to sin if they do not live by the divine life and abide in its fellowship.

This tells us that John is speaking to and of saved believers.

"And if anyone sins,...".... Aorist subjunctive, denoting a single act, not habitual action.

"we have an Advocate..."... The Greek word refers to one who is called to another's side to aid him; hence, a helper. It refers also to one who offers legal aid or one who intercedes on behalf of someone else; hence, an advocate, counsel, or intercessor. The word carries the sense of consoling and consolation; hence, a consoler, a comforter. It is used in the Gospel of John (14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7) for the Spirit of reality as our Comforter within us, the One who takes care of our case or our affairs. It is used here in reference to the Lord Jesus as our Advocate with the Father. When we sin, He, based on the propitiation that He accomplished, takes care of our case by interceding (Rom. 8:34) and pleading for us.

Here we have the linking of the solution to the need, if we sin.

"with...".... The Lord Jesus as our Advocate is living in communion with the Father.

"the Father,...".... Here this divine title indicates that our case, which the Lord Jesus as our Advocate undertakes for us, is a family affair, a case between children and the Father. Through regeneration we have been born children of God. After regeneration, if we sin, it is a matter of children sinning against their Father. Our Advocate, who is the sacrifice for our propitiation, undertakes for us to restore our interrupted fellowship with the Father that we may abide in the enjoyment of the divine fellowship.

"Jesus Christ the Righteous;...".... Our Lord Jesus is the only righteous man among all men. His righteous act (Rom. 5:18) on the cross fulfilled the righteous requirement of the righteous God for us and all sinners. Only He is qualified to be our Advocate, to care for us in our sinning condition and restore us to a righteous condition that the relationship between us and our Father, who is righteous, may be appeased.

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins,...".... and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world."I.e., the sacrifice for propitiation (see Rom. 3.). The Lord Jesus Christ offered Himself to God as a sacrifice for our sins (Heb. 9:28), not only for our redemption but also for the satisfying of God's demand, thus appeasing the relationship between us and God. Hence, He is the sacrifice for our propitiation before God.

"also for those of the whole world...." .... The Lord Jesus is a sacrifice for propitiation, not only for our sins but also for the whole world. However, this propitiation is conditioned on man's receiving the Lord by believing in Him. The unbelievers do not experience its efficacy, not because it has any fault but because they do not believe.


So what we can see John revealing an focusing on is the Person of Jesus as our keeper of our proper fellowship/communion with the Father. It is therefore in this principle/light that the rest of the chapter can be understood.


One more very important aspect to understanding what John was gettig at, is the overall reason he wrote this epistle in the first place.

What was John's reason for writing this epistle?

For the answer we go to....

1 John  1 : 1, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life..."

Paul's ministry was to complete the divine revelation (Col. 1:25-27) of God's New Testament economy, that is, the Triune God in Christ as the life-giving Spirit producing the members of Christ for the constituting and the building up of the Body of Christ, that the Triune God may have a full expression  the fullness of God (Eph. 1:23; 3:19)  in the universe.

Paul's writings were completed around A.D. 67. Paul's completing ministry was damaged by the apostasy preceding and following his death. Then after a quarter of a century, around A.D. 90, John's writings came forth.

John's ministry was not only to mend the broken ministry of Paul but also to consummate the entire divine revelation of both the Old Testament and the New Testament, of both the Gospels and the Epistles. In such a ministry, the focus is the mysteries of the divine life.

John's Gospel, as the consummation of the Gospels, unveils the mysteries of the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. John's Epistles (especially the first), as the consummation of the Epistles, unfold the mystery of the fellowship of the divine life, which is the fellowship of God's children with God the Father and with one another. Then John's Revelation, as the consummation of the New Testament and the Old Testament, reveals the mystery of Christ as the life supply to God's children for His expression and as the center of the universal administration of the Triune God.

Here John used the expression that which to open his Epistle and unfold the mystery of the fellowship in the divine life. That he did not use personal pronouns in reference to the Lord implies that what he was about to unfold is mysterious.


The Jewish Sabbath day is not mysterious.

The Lord Jesus is..... Colossians  2 : 2, "...... unto the full knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ,"

Believers in Christ are...... Colossians  1 : 27, "..... this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,"

The Church as Christ's body is..... Ephesians  3 : 4 - 6,..... "my understanding in the mystery of Christ,...... That in Christ Jesus the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the Body and fellow partakers of the promise through the gospel,"

And the one new man is.....Ephesians  5 : 32, "This mystery is great, but I speak with regard to Christ and the church."


John's speaking was directed at Christ in us for the accomplishing of God's eternal goal. Therefore all of this epistle must be read in the light of this principle.

Therefore, 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

..... must first and foremost, be speaking to knowing the Lord and keeping His commandments in an inward way.

And it is this inward way that is then manifested in an outward living.

Many Jews kept (and keep) the Jewish Sabbath. Yet not in righteousness before God.

Now you might say that "Okay, but the inward righteousness should be manifested in the keeping of the Sabbath day."

And to this I would reply..... "It most certainly should. But understand this, the Jewish Sabbath day was only a temporary type of that which was to come in an eternal way."

On the seventh day God rested...... never again to work. There is no repeating of the week of work.

What then do we have?

An eternal age that is the perfect expression of God's day of rest.

And the type of this is today found on the earth in those who rest in Christ, who is God's rest, every day that they live out their life on earth.

In reality, the seventh day, the rest day of God, is realized in Christ through the Church.

The Church is actually the real rest of God.

And, following this thought as it regards individual believers, the Church is actually the real rest of each saint.

There is no longer a day of rest, there is now the body of rest.

And this has always been God's plan, from the very beginning.

God rested from His work, and this "work" was creation. And the Church is the highest peak and final part of all God's creation.

This is why the Church is Zion, that in which, found in Psalm 132, God declares He will rest forever.


Do you know what JayT........ you, together with all the saints, are becoming the one true Sabbath of God. And in this fact, God Himself is becoming our true Sabbath.

This truth is far higher than that which was seen in the Jewish Sabbath day.


In love,
cj

 

[Scott]

In the world of today, the Bible describes 2 churches:

Their are also false prophets, and people who let those false prophets do their thinking for them. We get plenty of warnings in God's Word about being aware about not being deceived by them.

Hey guibox, I thought this kind of 'elitist' thinking doesn't in SDA?!

 

[Jay T]

JayT,

The commandments of Jesus are far higher than that which was commanded in the law of Moses.

Pardon me, but I'm not talking about the Law of Moses....I'm talking about the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17).

The Jewish Sabbath day is not mysterious.

I'm not interested in the Jewish Sabbaths....like the Passover, ect.
I've been refering to the 7th day Sabbath, found in the 10 commandments

But, only those who've read their Bibles (whole Bible) understand the difference between the two

There is no longer a day of rest, there is now the body of rest.

As you read this...count how may times, the word: 'DAY' is mentioned, OK ?
Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh [day] from all his works.
4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.
4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain [day], saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another [day].

4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Do you know what JayT........ you, together with all the saints, are becoming the one true Sabbath of God. And in this fact, God Himself is becoming our true Sabbath.

OK, then actions speak liuder than words.
In other words:James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Keeping the 7th 'DAY' sabbath, shows your works of faith, right ?

This truth is far higher than that which was seen in the Jewish Sabbath day.

Again, I'm not interested in any Jewish sabbath, like the Passover, ect.

 

[cj]

Pardon me, but I'm not talking about the Law of Moses....I'm talking about the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17).[/color]

Okay, you're speaking of what is often referred to as the moral laws.

But in my understanding, the Law of Moses is founded on the spiritual principles found in the ten commandments, or in other words, one is not seperate from the other.

In fact, scripture clearly states that God Himself, the One who authored it all,........ has declared that all the statutes and ordinances (yes, meaning the ten commandments and Moses law) are His statutes and ordinances;

Leviticus  18 : 5, "So you shall keep My statutes and My ordinances, by which, if a man does them, he will live; I am Jehovah."

Did you get the "I am Jehovah" part?

Additionally......... Jesus, who is God/Jehovah, Himself declared that the "Moral Law" was lower than His own law (and yes, Jesus brought in something even higher than what God gave on the mountain).......

Let's read what Jesus said....

Matthew 5 : 21 - 22, "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens. You have heard that it was said to the ancients, "You shall not murder, and whoever murders shall be liable to the judgment.'' But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the judgment of the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, Moreh, shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire."

Please note Jesus defining that which has passed..... "YOU HAVE HEARD"..... and introducing that which is present..... "BUT I SAY".

And what is it that He was referring to regarding that in the past?

That which is referred to as the moral law, exampled by moral law #7.

The fact is, Jesus Himself declared that there is an even higher moral law than those given to Moses on the mountain.

Note the "shall be's" that define them as commandments/laws.


Tell me JayT.... what do you know of the law of the Spirit of life has freed us in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death.

And what do you know about the law of freedom that James referrs to?

I'm not interested in the Jewish Sabbaths....like the Passover, ect.
I've been refering to the 7th day Sabbath, found in the 10 commandments

But, only those who've read their Bibles (whole Bible) understand the difference between the two[/color]

The difference between the two huh...... only people who read their bible, their whole bible, would know the difference between the two?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I would conclude from what you said above that you are implying that you have read your whole bible and thus know the difference between the two.

Okay, reading the whole bible is a good excercise, I give you that.... but according to what's written in the bible, it takes something more than just reading the whole bible in order to understand the truth that can be found in it.

Scripture, that which is found in the bible, tells us that,

1 Corinthians 2 : 10, "But to us God has revealed them through the Spirit, for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God."

And again in verse 12....

"But we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit which is from God, that we may know the things which have been graciously given to us by God;"


So JayT, according to the words of the bible..... what you said above is not the whole truth, and thus, is simply not the truth. Truth does not come in parts.

The truth is as follows...... men who are saved, and turn to the Spirit in their regenerated spirt, for leading and guidance in all things, including their reading of the bible, and according to God's will in time, will have all truth revealed to them by the Spirit of God.

Truth is revealed to us by the Spirit, and not by our efforts to read the whole bible.

In fact, many men throughout the ages have read the whole bible and remained in unbelief.

The fact is.... one cannot read and understand the bible outside of the law of the Spirit of life. The higher law.


But ignorance of this truth leads a person to make foolish vain comments such as you did above.

As you read this...count how may times, the word: 'DAY' is mentioned, OK ?
Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh [day] from all his works.
4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.
4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain [day], saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another [day].

4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Great...... but did you not notice that in the very last line the writer of Hebrews did not include the word "DAY"?

All the writer said was.... "There remains a rest...."

See JayT...... the "another day", the "Today" of Psalms 95...... is just Christ. Christ is this "day".

But don't believe me, believe what the bible says....

Hebrews 3 : 6 - 13, "But Christ was faithful as a Son over His house,...... whose house we are....... if indeed we hold fast the boldness and the boast of hope firm to the end. Therefore, even as the Holy Spirit says, "Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts........ Beware, brothers, lest perhaps there be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief in falling away from the living God.......... But exhort one another....... each day, as long as it is called "today,''........ lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin."


JayT...... the true Sabbath rest is our belief that we hold fast to, the hope we boast in.


JayT, what seperates the day from the night? The arrival of the sun, right.

Revelation  10 : 1, "And I saw another strong Angel bcoming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon His head,..... and His face was like the sun,.... and His feet like pillars of fire;"

Malachi  4 : 2, "But unto you who fear My name will.... the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in His wings,.... and you will go forth and leap about like well-fed calves.

2 Samuel 23 : 4, "And He is like... the light of the morning when the sun rises, A morning without clouds;.... As when the tender grass sprouts up from the earth At the sun's shining after a rain."

Psalms 84 : 11, "For Jehovah God is a sun.... and a shield; Jehovah gives grace and glory; He does not withhold anything good From those who walk uprightly."

Luke 1 : 78, "Because of the merciful compassions of our God, in which.... the rising sun will visit us from on high,"

Matthew 17 : 2, "And He was transfigured before them,.... and His face shone like the sun,.... and His garments became as white as the light."

Ephesians  5 : 14, "Therefore He says, Awake, sleeper, and arise from the dead,.... and Christ will shine on you."


Jesus the Savior was the dawning sun to the dark age. His coming ended the night of the Old Testament and began... the day.... of the New Testament. As the fruit in Elizabeth's blessing (v. 42 and note 2), He is life to us (John 14:6); as the sun in Zachariah's prophecy, He is light to us (John 9:5; Matt. 4:16). As such a One, He is the Accomplisher and the center of God's redemption that His people may obtain salvation.


When the Lord declared "It is finished", He declared that the day of the fallen creation is over, and in saying this, that "the day" of the promise/hope had begun.

But a day begins at sundown; meaning this, it takes time for the day that has begun anew to become fully revealed/manifested.

Scripture sometimes refers to Christ as the Morning Star. This is used in reference to His appearing in and through the Church before the fullness of the new day arrives. As the Morning Star, Christ is only seen in a limited way (during the age of the Church), but as the Rising Sun, Christ is fully manifested (at His coming).

If you read the last half of the book of Zachariah with this light, you will be more clear about just what is meant by the phrases "Today" and "This day."

OK, then actions speak liuder than words.
In other words:James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Keeping the 7th 'DAY' sabbath, shows your works of faith, right ?

It might seem so, but once something higher than the moral commandments was revealed to us, keeping the higher has become the work of our faith.

The word that many bible translations translate as "dead" is really better translated as "useless". Meaning this, that the faith that has been given to us, which is simply Christ in us as our faith, is useless unless manifested.

See, the desire of the Father is that the Son be manifested to all creation in and through redeemed and transformed men. Upon our believeing in the Lord we are immediately redeemed....... but after this initial redeemtion a man must then be transformed by the life that has been placed in him at his new birth (born-again). It is the issue of the work of transformation that is going on inside of a believer that becomes that which is seen by the world.

The work of God is the transforming of a sinner into a person who is one with Him in image, nature, and life. And the glory of God is the perfection of this expressed in His many sons.

What the Spirit is saying in James is that inward faith is useless to God if not manifested outwardly. But this outward manifestation is not seen in a man keeping the 7th day Sabbath, as per the moral commandments, but this outward manifestation is seen in a man who is forever/continually walking/expression God's rest/Sabbath. Which is really to say, expressing God's victory over His enemy.

Any man can keep the 7th day Sabbath, the bible shows us that even unbelievers can keep it. But only a saved and transformed man can walk/keep/express God's true Sabbath all the time. And this is what God desires.


In love,
cj

 

[John the Baptist]

The only true church is composed of born again Christians who follow the bible and no one else.

******

Very true! But into what? Ephesians 4:5's one Fold! Denomination, church, synagogue, Vineyard, and Virgin Fold of Matt. 25.

"Other sheep I have, which are not of this Fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepard." John 10:16

And Revelation 18:4 finds the Inspired Words call, to come out of her My people and be not partakers of her sins... or what??? And into where?

But why must Christ call these saved ones out if He is in their fold???

---Elijah

 

[Scott]

"Other sheep I have, which are not of this Fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepard." John 10:16

There should be no confusion about who Jesus is talking about. After Christ's resurrection He told the disciples to preach the gospel to all creation (Mark 16:15-16). Jesus makes a clear illustration about what He means in Luke 20:9-19 (The Parable of the Tenants).

That evidence is supported by Acts 9:15, Acts 10:45, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:46, Acts 14:27, Acts 18:6, Acts 22:21, Acts 26:20, & Acts 28:28

We need to find our truth in God's Word not from false doctrine. The previous post is another example of scripture funneled through the mind of a false prophet. Buyer beware!!

 

[Jay T]

We need to find our truth in God's Word not from false doctrine.

I'm glad to hear you say that !
It will make God happy to know that you will refuse the false doctrine of Sunday worship services, which is sin, in the eyes of God.