Bible Study Only 2 Churches ...in the World Today

[Scott]

It will make God happy to know that you will refuse the false doctrine of Sunday worship services, which is sin, in the eyes of God.

Of course you'll be happy to show me where a specific day is commanded in the NT, right?!!

Romans 14:5
"One man considers one day more sacred than another;
another man considers every day alike. Each one should be
fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:10-11
"You are observing special days and months and seasons and
years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on
you."

 

[Orthodox Christian]

It will make God happy to know that you will refuse the false doctrine of Sunday worship services, which is sin, in the eyes of God.

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

Merely establishing that there is a Sabbath day on which to rest does nothing to either prove that Sabbath is a day for public worship, nor that Kyriaki Himera is not.

Please stay focused and answer my question directly.

Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,

 

[Jay T]

[quote="JAY T":547f9]It will make God happy to know that you will refuse the false doctrine of Sunday worship services, which is sin, in the eyes of God.

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

[/quote:547f9] Romans 3:20 "... for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin".

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law".

QUESTION: what law is being refered to ?

Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet".

And, do I have to remind anyone that..."Thou shalt not covet" is the 10th commandment (Exodus 20:17) ?

And, if there be the 10th...there must be 9 others, before it, right ?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Jay T: How does your response answer my question in any respect?

I said

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

Merely establishing that there is a Sabbath day on which to rest does nothing to either prove that Sabbath is a day for public worship, nor that Kyriaki Himera is not.

and then you went on to make the argument against neglecting Sabbath- which does not answer my question in the least.

Awaiting clarification here...

 

[Jay T]

I said

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

Merely establishing that there is a Sabbath day on which to rest does nothing to either prove that Sabbath is a day for public worship, nor that Kyriaki Himera is not.

Awaiting clarification here...

Well. would you accept Jesus Christ as 'our' example of Sabbath-keeping ?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Jay: shake your head and get it clear for a moment here: I was explicit in stating that I was not asking about the Sabbath- I will repeat the question:

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

At best, you can demonstrate that neglecting to rest on Saturday is violation of the commandment. There is no commandment to worship corporately on the weekly Sabbath.

Again, let me challenge your statement that worshipping on Sunday was grave sin:

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

Please address this point, Jay T

 

[Jay T]

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law".

At best, you can demonstrate that neglecting to rest on Saturday is violation of the commandment. There is no commandment to worship corporately on the weekly Sabbath.

No, there is not.
But I wouldn't want to waste my time worshipping God, in vain....as (Matthew 15:3 & 9) says, either.

Again, let me challenge your statement that worshipping on Sunday was grave sin:

Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

Romans 14:23 "...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin".

 

[SputnikBoy]

Orthodox Christian: Prove from scripture that worshipping on what you call Sunday- or any day, for that matter- is sin.

Sputnik: While I don't particularly endorse the extremist position of Jay T in regard to this entire thread, my response to the above question is this. I think the 'sin' part of Sunday worship is based on the premise that 'Sunday' to most mainstream Christians is 'the Sabbath'. Otherwise I personally (my opinion, nothing else) would not see an issue with Christians worshiping God at every opportunity. Referring to Sunday as the Sabbath, however, may be seen as blasphemous.

In regard to there only being two churches ...my take on this issue is that a church is simply bricks and mortar. Adventists, Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, etc. are human beings. And, human beings are 'the church'. The 'saved' will not necessarily be those who congregate one day per week in a building, whether it be Saturday or Sunday. I think we need to get that clear in our minds. 'The remnant' will NOT be a denomination. They will be God's people. While Jay T and I are affiliated with the same denomination, we are two quite different individuals. A couple of times I've had to say, "hmmmm", to myself after reading some of Jay T's posts.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Yes, I've found myself saying "hmm" after reading his posts also.

I would agree with nearly all that you said, save this: To refer to the designation of Sunday as Sabbath as "blasphemous" is IMHO vastly overstating the gravity of the matter. Inaccurate might be a better designation.

Where blasphemy would come into play is in the presumption that because one keeps a specific day, they are thus justified. It is a graver thing to trample upon the sacrifice of Christ than to transgress part of the decalogue.

Or at least, it had better be, for we all transgress the decalogue.

 

[Jay T]

Where blasphemy would come into play is in the presumption that because one keeps a specific day, they are thus justified.

No ...it is as God said: Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
Only those who have the love relationship, with Jesus Christ, fit into the category.

It is a graver thing to trample upon the sacrifice of Christ than to transgress part of the decalogue.

No...is it sheer ingratitude to Jesus Christ to continue in sin, after He paid the ultimate price to free us, from the curse of sin , which is eternal death.

Or at least, it had better be, for we all transgress the decalogue.

So, your saying that since we are saved from sin...we continue in sin ?

Or...do you understand Christ's words....'go and sin no more'.

 

[godspeed]

God knows the heart.

CJ said:

Moses said "if you murder", Jesus said "if you even think in anger."

Moses said "if you commit adultery", Jesus said "if you even think lustfully."

The requirement of the commandments of Moses' law was according to an outward participation, the requirement of Jesus' commandments is according to an inward participation.

Awesome reply CJ. Straight out of the Bible.

The circumcision of the heart is what the Lord is seeking.


Jesus is Lord,

Helen

 

[Jay T]

So if you happen to worship on Sunday, then you are Catholic??!!

MW

DOCUMENTATION:

"Protestants accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship 'after' the Catholic Church made the change .....BUT the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that....in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope", ('Our Sunday Visitor', February 5, 1950).

Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness ?"


"Sunday is a Catholic insitution,and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles....Fromthe beginning of scripture to the end (Genesis-Revelation) there is not one single passage that warrants the transfer of public worship from the 7th day of the week, to the 1st day of the week", ('Catholic Press', Sydney, Autralia, August, 1900).


"IF Protestants would follow the Bible, they shouldworship God on the Sabbath day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a Law of the Catholic Church" (Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920).

"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, unfallable authority given her by her founder, Jesus Christ.
The Protestant claiming the Bible to be their only guide to faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.
In this matter, the Seventh-Day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant", ("The Catholic Universe Bulletin', August 14, 1942).


"It was the Catholic church which by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest (from the Bible Sabbath) to Sunday....Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protesant is in homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic Church", (Monsignor
Louis Segur, 'Plain Talk about the Protestant of Today', Page 213).

 

[cj]

Seventh Day Adventist...... =....... Denying the reality of the resurrection of our Lord and its expression through our daily living.

Leviticus  23 : 9 - 22,

Then Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them, When you come into the land which I am giving you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest; And he shall wave the sheaf before Jehovah for your acceptance; on the day..... AFTER..... the Sabbath..... the priest shall wave it.

And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to Jehovah. And its meal offering shall be two- tenths of an ephah of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering by fire to Jehovah for a satisfying fragrance. And its drink offering shall be of wine, a fourth of a hin.

And you shall eat no bread or parched grain or fresh ears until that same day, until you have brought the offering of your God. It shall be...... a perpetual statute....... throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

And you shall count for yourselves..... from the day after the Sabbath;..... from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering there shall be seven complete Sabbaths.

You shall count fifty days.... until the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall present a new meal offering to Jehovah.

You shall bring out of your dwelling places two loaves as a wave offering; they shall be of two tenths of an ephah of fine flour, baked with leaven, as firstfruits to Jehovah.

And you shall present with the bread seven lambs, a year old without blemish, and one bull of the herd and two rams; they shall be a burnt offering to Jehovah with their meal offering and their drink offerings, an offering by fire for a satisfying fragrance to Jehovah. And you shall offer one male goat for a sin offering and two male lambs, a year old, for a sacrifice of peace offerings.

And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits as a wave offering before Jehovah with the two lambs; they shall be holy to Jehovah for the priest. And you shall make a proclamation..... on that same day;...... you shall have a holy convocation;...... you shall do no work of labor. It shall be..... a perpetual statute..... in all your dwelling places throughout your generations.

And when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely reap the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleaning of your harvest; you shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner; I am Jehovah your God."


Matthew  28 : 1, Now late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave."


John  20 : 1, "Now on the first day of the week, Mary the Magdalene came early to the tomb while it was yet dark and saw the stone taken away from the tomb."


Acts  20 : 7, "And on the first day of the week, when we gathered together to break bread, Paul conversed with them since he was to go forth on the next day; and he extended his message until midnight."


1 Corinthians  16 : 2, "On the first day of the week each one of you should lay aside in store to himself whatever he may have been prospered, that no collections be made when I come."


Revelation  1 : 10, "I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,"


The first day of the week, or the day after the Sabbath, signifies a new beginning, a new age. In Lev. 23:10-11, 15, a sheaf of the firstfruits of the harvest was offered to the Lord as a wave offering on the day after the Sabbath. That sheaf of the firstfruits was a type of Christ as the firstfruits in resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20, 23). Christ resurrected on precisely the day after the Sabbath. By His all-inclusive death He terminated the old creation, which had been completed in six days, after which was the Sabbath day. In His resurrection He germinated the new creation with the divine life. Hence, the day of His resurrection was the beginning of a new week  a new age. This day of His resurrection was appointed by God (Psa. 118:24), was prophesied as "this day" in Psa. 2:7, was predicted by Himself as the third day (Matt. 16:21; John 2:19, 22), and later was called by the early Christians "the Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10). On this day Christ was born in resurrection as the firstborn Son of God (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5) and the Firstborn from the dead to be the Head of the Body, the church (Col. 1:18).


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

The reality of a believer, and corporately, the many believers who together are the one Church, is that not only are we those who gather together on the first day of the week to remember, testify, and celebrate our Lord and all that He is and has done, and the Father from whom He came,...... but even more, the reality of the believer, and thus the one Church, is that of being living witnesses of the new day that our Lord has brought in.

Believers are in reality, a first day people.


In love,
cj

 

[Jay T]

Seventh Day Adventist...... =....... Denying the reality of the resurrection of our Lord and its expression through our daily living.

WOW !
Are you in need of an education !
[/quote]Jesus said: "IF you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).
And the Bible identifies 'some' in the SDA church as.... Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus".

As to the resurrection of our Lord, SDA's do not...keep Sunday worship services because....Jesus never...told anyone to do such a thing as that.....Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
And I've personaly never seen any church, except...the SDA church, do exactly, as Jesus Christ said !

And let's not forget I was raised from birth, in Sunday keeping churches for some 28 years....before God led me, into the SDA church.

 

[John the Baptist]

The reality of a believer, and corporately, the many believers who together are the one Church, is that not only are we those who gather together on the first day of the week to remember, testify, and celebrate our Lord and all that He is and has done, and the Father from whom He came,...... but even more, the reality of the believer, and thus the one Church, is that of being living witnesses of the new day that our Lord has brought in.

Believers are in reality, a first day people.


In love,
cj

*********
John here:
It seems that you are all mostly in unity already on this then, huh? Sunday worship, and only believe. But the two must go together right, to be in unity?

Next: All hell breaks loose (already doing so!) & it is the ones that will not yield to this liberty of 'yours' that is the troubler in Israel (all of you real believers) and causing Gods judgements to fall on planet earth. So what follows next??? :fadein: But please do take the time first to read 2 Peter 2:19-22 starting with the promise of 'liberty'!

To just let the forum know that this is not what the real Revelation 17:5 ones teach, let me post in part from a letter from the Lord's Day Aliance of the United States back in 1999.

Most know who they are perhaps? They have been around since 1888. (does that date ring any bells?) This group is made up of most all Protestant denominations throughout planet earth, and has a very large board of directors.

Notice:

"Strengthing the work that has sustained us for all these years; that is, upholding the 4th commandment to "Keep the Sabbath holy." ... We promise to be good stewards of the trust you have placed in us, and we promise to make you proud of the work you are a part of as our financial partner."
Jack P. Lowndes
Executive Director

 

[John the Baptist]

Jay T
Moderator


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 1396
Location: Hayden Lake, Idaho USA
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cj wrote:
Seventh Day Adventist...... =....... Denying the reality of the resurrection of our Lord and its expression through our daily living.
WOW !
Are you in need of an education !
[/quote]Jesus said: "IF you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).
And the Bible identifies 'some' IN the SDA church as.... Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus".


*******
Hi, I highlighted in red something that needs attention! Yoked 'in membership you say, with Adventism', while they are in total open sin rebellion with about as much daily trite GOING ON as in the Revelation 17:5's ones?? How on earth do Adventist differ than that of these ones??? See Matthew 10:5-6 & verse 15.

Perhaps you need to do a study on Ezekiel 9 or E.W. pg. 269-271 if you still believe in these writings??

 

[cj]

John, forgive me if I'm the only one, but what is your point?

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Romans 7 : 7 - 25,

"What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! But I did not know sin except through the law; for neither did I know coveting, except the law had said, "You shall not covet.'' But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, worked out in me coveting of every kind; for without the law sin is dead. And I was alive without the law once; but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was unto life, this very commandment was found to me to be unto death. For sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, adeceived me and through it killed me.

So then the law is holy, and the commandment holy and righteous and good. Did then that which is good become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin did, that it might be shown to be sin by working out death in me through that which is good, that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am fleshy, sold under sin. For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice; but what I hate, this I do. But if what I do not will, this I do, I agree with the law that it is good.

Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not. For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice. But if what I do not will, this I do, it is ano longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me. I find then the law with me who wills to do the good, that is, the evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man, I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members.

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?

Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin."




Paul tells us in the verses above that man is unable to keep the law even if he desires to do so in his mind. This is due to the fact of man's flesh being a stronger compelling influence than man's mind, concerning what a man ends up doing.

And this is what the law/commandments were given for, to expose that man is unable to do anything good, even having the best intentions.

The law/commandments are there to prove men incapable, and not for men to prove themselves capable.

And this is what the SDA institution declares in its teaching, that man is capable of keeping the law/commandments.

And this is a lie, from the father of lies. Do not believe for a moment that because an SDA believer "keeps" the Jewish Sabbath that it represents anything more than a fleshly attempt at self justification. And God hates this, as in it is the denial of Christ in His all inclusive life, death, burial, and resurrection.


Paul goes on to absolutely declare the way of a believer..... rejecting the way of the flesh as found in man's attempts to keep the law in this manner, and revealing one of the most profound truths ever seen by man..... the law of the Spirit of life.


Romans 8 : 1 - 6,

"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus..... from.... the law/commandments of sin and of death.

For that which the law/commandments could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.

For those who are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh (such as trying to keep the Jewish Sabbath); but those who are according to the spirit, the things of the Spirit (such as abiding in the true and everlasting Sabbath at all times). For the mind set on the flesh (law/commandments) is death, but the mind set on the spirit (the Son) is life and peace.



From what I've read in the posts of SDA followers, very little is know by them of what the Spirit is, and what their spirit is.


In love,
cj

 

[Free]

Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

I have suggested in the past that Jay T read all of Galatians. I don't think he has.