Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[Imagican]

And I will agree with your deduction. However, how do you suppose we are to 'identify' those that are 'true' Saints? How are we to 'defend' ourselves from those that 'appear' to be Saints? Those who's 'one percent falsehood' that they teach is able to lead those that follow astray?

And I refer NOT to those that may 'claim' to be Saints in our present time, but those of the PAST that were accepted as Saints yet may NOT have been. Yet their 'doctrine' lives on in the churchesof OUR time. How do you suppose we are to 'protect ourselves' from these? And more important, how de we identify these?

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

And I refer NOT to those that may 'claim' to be Saints in our present time, but those of the PAST that were accepted as Saints yet may NOT have been. Yet their 'doctrine' lives on in the churchesof OUR time. How do you suppose we are to 'protect ourselves' from these? And more important, how de we identify these?

MEC

God established a body of believers who would tend the flock until His "return". The Scriptures call this body of believers the Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth. If you have doubts, that is understandable. However, in the end, we will continue to trust that God reveals Himself primarily through this Church as it continues to explore the depths of the revelation that God has given to it to guard and to teach for all time.

God did not leave us here stranded without a way of knowing the truth, Imagican. The problem is that you are focusing on the negatives of the people whom God works through. Do you also condemn the heroes of the Old Testament for their sins? The Body of Christ in time will not become entirely divine until the end of time.

Regards

 

[stranger]

And I will agree with your deduction. However, how do you suppose we are to 'identify' those that are 'true' Saints? How are we to 'defend' ourselves from those that 'appear' to be Saints? Those who's 'one percent falsehood' that they teach is able to lead those that follow astray?

And I refer NOT to those that may 'claim' to be Saints in our present time, but those of the PAST that were accepted as Saints yet may NOT have been. Yet their 'doctrine' lives on in the churchesof OUR time. How do you suppose we are to 'protect ourselves' from these? And more important, how de we identify these?

MEC

Hi Imagician,

The true saints will love one another after Christ. But can these be distinguished on the basis of their doctrine? In wayward cases perhaps. But just because someone disagrees with me doesn't invalidate their claim to be a Christian. We naturally look for a consensus on what some consider to be doctrine essential to salvation. This is why confessions of faith have been written - to define what they believe and often to set them apart from those they want to be separated from. It is sufficient that God knows those that are His own - the church tries to ascertain, as best they can, who is accepted for baptism etc. . .

The difficulty in identifying 'past saints' based upon select writings is difficult. . . I have a term called 'posthumous elevation' which borders on and can become idolatry of past figures that are hero worshipped. I do not refer to the list in the book of Hebrews - but to men as well known as Calvin and Luther and to others that are less well known. Glowing biographies about such figures are usually an indicator. So yes I have my doubts. On the other hand I have confidence in the likes of Charles Wesley because I believe he loved and worshipped God and experienced that all important love of God firsthand. There are glowing biographies of C.W. as well . . . I guess to see something of the gift of the Spirit is more convincing than intellectual ability and hard work.

 

[Jay T]

The ONLY True God, is the Creator.

This alone, is what separates God, from other gods.

Satan has tried to become the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4).
He has introduced evolution into the school systems, trying to replace God as a Creator of everything.

In the religious world, satan has tried to replace the Creator God, with himself.
The Creator God uses the 7th day sabbath, as a memorial of the act of Creation .

Satan has tried to replace the 7th day sabbath with another day (Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws').....intending to remove from the minds of mankind, the acts of Creation.....and ReCreation, as in the born-again experience.

The last Message of God's, to a dying world contained in the 'Everlasting Gospel' of (Revelation 14:6,7)....is to call mankind BACK....to worshipping the Creator, who made heaven and earth.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Amen Jay!

Timely Word 4 Today:-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is Faithful!

Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.

Deuteronomy 7:9 NIV
__________________

He is the LORD our God:
his judgments are in all the earth.

He hath remembered his covenant for ever,
the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

Psalm 105:7,8 KJV
__________________

Let us hold fast the confession
of our hope without wavering,
for He who promised is faithful;

Hebrews 10:23 NASB
__________________

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith
that saves is faith in Him.


Through the Bible in a Year - Readings for February 18

February 18: Hebrews 13, Exodus 18-19, Proverbs 8

Click Here for the complete schedule

Or Copy and paste this link into your browser:
http://www.arcamax.com/ttb-yr.html


Meditation 2/18 - 2/24: Ps 119:33-40 KJV

Teach me to follow your laws

Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes;
and I shall keep it unto the end.

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law;
yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

Make me to go in the path of thy commandments;
for therein do I delight.

Incline my heart unto thy testimonies,
and not to covetousness.

Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity;
and quicken thou me in thy way.

Stablish thy word unto thy servant,
who is devoted to thy fear.

Turn away my reproach which I fear:
for thy judgments are good.

Behold, I have longed after thy precepts:
quicken me in thy righteousness.

Psalm 119:33-40 KJV

 

[Imagican]

fran,

While I may not agree with your definition of 'who' the Church IS, I will agree with what you have offered concerning The Church.

As I have stated previous, I am WELL aware that God's Word states that there will ALWAYS remain a 'remnant'. 'Some' that ARE able to STAY in The Spirit and pass on The Word.

Stanger,

See, you DO understand much of what I believe. And I furtther state once again, for it CANNOT be emphasised ENOUGH; Satan deceived Eve with 99 percent TRUTH and a mere ONE percent LIE. Thereby turning her understanding into something 'untrue'.

We need beware that the 'flesh' LONGS to hear what it desires. And due to it's 'nature', it is VERY difficult at times for The Spirit to OVERCOME the 'flesh'. Satan KNOWS this. He USES This to infiltrate the churches and it will ONLY get 'worse and worse'.

This is where we MUST be EXTREMELY careful with 'who' we follow. Many follow 'men' unaware that this is the case. They let 'man-made' doctrine be their 'spirit' rather than opening their hearts to The Spirit.

That there have been 'Saints', (those inspired by God Himself through The Spirit) is without doubt. I simply question 'who' these truly were.

And JayT,

Once again you show wisdom and understanding in your words. For The Word warns us of EXACTLY what you offer. Not ONLY what you offered, but MUCH, MUCH more. It goes SO DEEP that MOST is SO SUBTLE that even the VERY ELECT are subseptable to it's influence.

The world is influential in ways we can't even comprehend in this present ege. How does one KEEP on the ENTIRE ARMOR of God EVERY SECOND? Not an 'easy' thing to accomplish. And EVERY second that it is NOT worn, we become subseptable to 'doctrines of devils'. I have simply tried to point this out. And it IS harder NOW than ever before. But that this HAS been the case 'since the beginning' is WITHOUT doubt.

Thanks for your comments folks. It is JUST such unity that makes it possible for The Body to defend itself against that which would corrupt and separate. When the BODY is 'healthy' it is strong, but when it has it's members opposing one another it becomes 'weak' and ineffectual. That we recognize the methods used by Satan and his minions we become 'that much stronger' in our ability to recognize and resist that which he 'throws at The Body'. There CERTAINLY IS strength in numbers.

Blessings my brothers,

MEC

 

[MarkT]

Imagican

Hi there.

We know that the doctrine is wrong when we have wise men saying Jesus is God. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God. Which makes Mary Queen of Heaven. Mary gets to boss her Son around for eternity. It makes Mary at least Co-Redemptrix with God and perhaps greater than God. It figures coming from a church that makes graven images and worships idols. Truly, the simple acquire folly.

 

[Imagican]

Imagican

Hi there.

We know that the doctrine is wrong when we have wise men saying Jesus is God. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God. Which makes Mary Queen of Heaven. Mary gets to boss her Son around for eternity. It makes Mary at least Co-Redemptrix with God and perhaps greater than God. It figures coming from a church that makes graven images and worships idols. Truly, the simple acquire folly.

See, now THIS is what I have been 'trying' to 'point out' to whomever will listen.

How do you suppose that it's possible that there are MANY that can 'see' the truth of this offering? Even the Protestants that accept 'trinity' do NOT believe that Mary IS the Mother of God. Yet STILL, they hang on to it and defend it as if it is MANDATORY to Salvation. God HAS no 'mother' that we KNOW of. God HAS NO BEGINNING that we KNOW of. God IS The Father of Jesus Christ and we DO KNOW this. We also know that Mary WAS the mother of Christ. Yet we ALSO know that she was a mortal human being NO DIFFERENT than MANY others. There is ONLY ONE that is to be worshiped AS God and THAT, my friends, IS GOD. That we are able to righteously worship Christ is without doubt. But we have been shown that this worship is that offered TO THE SON, rather than TO THE FATHER.

Thanks, Mark, missed ya

Blessings folks.

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

Imagican

Hi there.

We know that the doctrine is wrong when we have wise men saying Jesus is God. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God. Which makes Mary Queen of Heaven. Mary gets to boss her Son around for eternity. It makes Mary at least Co-Redemptrix with God and perhaps greater than God. It figures coming from a church that makes graven images and worships idols. Truly, the simple acquire folly.

Mark,

Wow. I didn't realize you had a problem with calling Mary the Mother of God, since Jesus is God...

I am not sure where you get "Mary gets to boss her Son around for eternity". Who believes that?

Who believes Mary is "perhaps greater than God"?

As to "graven images and worships idols", could you please give me an example? I would like to know what you are talking about - especially when you condemn these "simple" people who have acquired folly.

I'll have to steer clear of them when you tell me whom you are speaking of...

Regards

 

[Imagican]

fran,

Not to start 'bashing Catholics', (as it is so likely to be called when one 'points' out the pageantry of this faith), but, I have visited CCs and have YET to enter one that did NOT have 'statues' in place. I am NOT saying that there are NOT any that DON'T have them, but I have yet to witness them.

I have also witnessed those that would 'bow down' to these 'man-made images'. Bow down and pray, crossing their heart with the 'sign of the cross', and begin to pray.

Now, I don't know what you call it. ME, I call it 'worshiping' idols. I have NOT been 'taught' to do this and clearly see it's 'significance'.

I have witnessed the 'hail Mary, full of graces.......' and to be frank, it's kind of 'eerie'. Like watching movies where there is a 'gathering' and then they start 'chanting' in unison. Saying the 'same thing' over and over again like they are trying to psych themselves into some kind of 'religious' trance or something. I get the same 'feeling' when witnessing Pentacostals 'speaking in tongues'.

I once asked a Pentacostal pastor why I felt such 'eerie' sensation when witnessing this bazaar behavior. His answer? Obviously YOU weren't RAISED this way. I was forced to answer with a hearty, ''AMEN''. I certainly wasn't. Fortunately that was ONE thing that I didn't have to 'relearn' in my quest for the 'truth'.

I see the 'same' type situation here with the idols and Mary worship. EVERY SECOND that is spent 'worshiping Mary' is ONE LESS second that one could be worshiping the CREATOR, God. And to bow to statues made in the 'likeness' of those that we have NO IDEA of their appearance just seems downright sacrilegious to me.

I know that each has their OWN WAY. And I would NOT attempt in the least to 'stop' ANYONE from worshiping as they see fit. I would also not attempt to allow them to remain ignorant of the truth either. So, while I would not attempt to physically, (nor through making LAWS that forbid it), stop ANYONE from following such a 'religion', I certainly feel compelled to 'warn' them of what 'I' see that they SHOULDN'T be doing.

I can clearly see these types of religion from an 'outside' perspective. Nothing pushing OR pulling me in ANY direction. No 'preconceived notions' guiding my understanding so much as discernment of what has been offered through The Word and through The Spirit. I know, you would 'say' the same thing. The difference is that I am able to 'back up' my statements with The Word. You, on the other hand, are forced to say that 'your way' was 'passed down' ORALLY from the Saints and is therefore JUST as valid as what these Saints WROTE down even when the two contradict one another.

Ah well, we each are to be judged according to our hearts. I do NOT know the hearts of those that follow such faith. I neither condemn nor condone such, only try to 'point out' what has been revealed to me. For that is what I MUST do.

Fran, PLEASE. I do NOT intend for my words to even 'seem' to be directed at "YOU PERSONALLY'. PLEASE understand this. I don't know you other than our communications on this forum. I hold YOU PERSONALLY responsible for NOTHING. That you have found 'your place' in the scope of things is NOT something that I either envy nor despise. If anything, I find it amazing that someone of your understanding would choose to follow as you do. But, that is YOUR choice and I respect that even if I don't agree with it. All I can ask is that you 'try' to understand; not WHAT I say, but 'why' I say it.

MEC

 

[golfjack]

reply

We cannot judge what is in one's heart, but doesn't the Bible say we are to judge men by their fruits?



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[francisdesales]

fran,

Not to start 'bashing Catholics', (as it is so likely to be called when one 'points' out the pageantry of this faith), but, I have visited CCs and have YET to enter one that did NOT have 'statues' in place. I am NOT saying that there are NOT any that DON'T have them, but I have yet to witness them.

Think of the statues as pictures in your wallet of your father or mother, Imagican. Having a visible representation of someone you love is not against God's Laws, is it?

I have also witnessed those that would 'bow down' to these 'man-made images'. Bow down and pray, crossing their heart with the 'sign of the cross', and begin to pray.

Do you pray in a group with other people, Imagican? That is what we are doing with these "images". These people are role models for us, people who were able to love and worship God in their own particular situations. They give us hope that we, too, can also live up to God's standards that He has given us. Thus, we revere these holy people who have gone before us, knowing full well that God has worked mightily through the works of the particular saint. We pray WITH the saint. I cannot answer for one billion Catholics, but the idea is that we are praying WITH the saint when we kneel down at the foot of a statue, asking them to intercede to Christ for us. The mentality is that these saints are closer to God then us, and that God will be more pleased to answer the prayers of His favored saints in heaven.

I see the 'same' type situation here with the idols and Mary worship. EVERY SECOND that is spent 'worshiping Mary' is ONE LESS second that one could be worshiping the CREATOR, God. And to bow to statues made in the 'likeness' of those that we have NO IDEA of their appearance just seems downright sacrilegious to me.

That is simply not true. Praying with Mary is not a moment spent away from Christ, because Mary is God's greatest instrument through whom He worked to save mankind from himself. When I compliment the lasagna that you baked, Imagican, do you get jealous??? Do you yell at me and tell me that I should compliment you directly? Isn't it obvious that the lasagna (and Mary) are creations that are nothing without the Creator?

I know that each has their OWN WAY. And I would NOT attempt in the least to 'stop' ANYONE from worshiping as they see fit. I would also not attempt to allow them to remain ignorant of the truth either. So, while I would not attempt to physically, (nor through making LAWS that forbid it), stop ANYONE from following such a 'religion', I certainly feel compelled to 'warn' them of what 'I' see that they SHOULDN'T be doing.

Kind words at first, but you can't help but telling me how wrong all the Catholics are for praying to God the way they do... You appear to contradict yourself - first, you don't care what we do, but you show righteous indignation because you don't understand WHY we pray to God that way... You feel "compelled" to warn us - based on your expert opinion of the Word of God and what we THINK we are doing. Perhaps you would be better served by trying to listen to a Catholic's explanation, rather than condemning them outright.

The difference is that I am able to 'back up' my statements with The Word. You, on the other hand, are forced to say that 'your way' was 'passed down' ORALLY from the Saints and is therefore JUST as valid as what these Saints WROTE down even when the two contradict one another.

No, the Scriptures speak of liturgical worship and prayer throughout. You interpret Scriptures one way, and I another. It is not necessary to say that prayer was "passed down orally" - that is ridiculous, as I have posted quite a bit of WRITTEN transmission from the saints on what they believed. You need to remember that the Bible is not the only Word of God given to mankind. Jesus Christ is the culmination of the WORD - what He teaches is God's Word. And Jesus did not write anything down. He tasked the apostles to teach and preach what they had been taught... He didn't tell them to go hand out bibles or commentaries.

Ah well, we each are to be judged according to our hearts. I do NOT know the hearts of those that follow such faith. I neither condemn nor condone such, only try to 'point out' what has been revealed to me. For that is what I MUST do.

Fair enough. I can understand your misgivings, as you have a different understanding of the Word of God. But Jesus said not to inhibit those who do works in His name. Thus, if God's works are being done - even by Catholics - then why are you so worried? Why the need to tear down those who continue God's works in the world? While I do not agree with your particular theology, have I questioned your work in Christ?

Regards

 

[mutzrein]

Dead saints interceding for us? The saints preserve us :-?

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[mutzrein]

Re: reply

We cannot judge what is in one's heart, but doesn't the Bible say we are to judge men by their fruits?



May God bless, Golfjack

It's more emphatic than that GolfJack. It is not just a matter of judging them. We KNOW them by their fruit.

 

[Jay T]

Re: reply

We cannot judge what is in one's heart, but doesn't the Bible say we are to judge men by their fruits?



May God bless, Golfjack

Yes, and that is why I try to steer people towards the Bible truth of 7th day sabbath worship....as per the example of Jesus Christ, Himself.

When a person has false doctrines, they reveal them in their lives, whereby we can see where their error is, and try to help them understand the word of God, better.

NO ONE can force them to believe the truth of the Bible.
All we can do, is point out the way of truth, and then let them decide what they want to do with it.

 

[Imagican]

And JayT, regardless of our discussions of the past concerning the Sabbath, PLEASE don't think for a moment that I 'disagree' with 'what' the Sabbath IS, and that it is CERTAILY 'one way' that we have to offer our worship, through observeance, to The One True God.

I am NOT as adamantly 'bound' as you would indicate one NEED be. But that it IS important to you takes NOTHING away from 'your walk'. I DO bellieve that IS possible to live WITHOUT 'the LAW' as our guide. One must 'mature' FIRST to be able to live a life 'outside' the law and be able to 'overcome' the NEED. For IF a man live BY THE SPIRIT, the law is NO LONGER of any effect. That persons life WILL be transformed to mirror the image of what God would have us 'become', REGARDLESS of 'the law'.

This is NOT to say that there is ANYTHING wrong with those that choose to 'attempt' to follow the commandments. Nothing at all, so long as they do it IN SPIRIT instead of a belief that this makes them 'better' than others who don't.

Christ fulfilled 'the law'. NOW, those that live IN THE SPIRIT are FREE from it. For the law brought SIN, and SIN, death. We who accept Christ's gift are NO LONGER bound to 'this death'. Should we sin for the sake of FREEDOM, NO WAY!!!! But we should allow Christ to abide within our hearts and therefore He becomes able to 'transform' us into a vessel worthy of His inhabitance. Once one comes to this realization it is MUCH easier to 'come BACK' to God through repentance of sin in order to become closer and stronger in God through Christ.

Not trying to 'change' the subject, but this thing is REALLY important to understand. SO many people are held SEPARATE from God through their attempted adherance to 'the law'. So many are 'bound' by it and are unable to experience the 'freedom' wrought by Christ upon the cross. I 'believe' that an understanding of this is CRUCIAL to 'opening up one's heart' to The Spirit thus 'allowing' The Spirit to 'mold them', if you will, into that which is worthy of the gift offered.

But REGARDLESS, there will be those that will forever be unable to grasp this understanding in 'this life'. That doesn't need 'take away' from their reward, but it certainly inpedes MUCH peace that they would find if able to understand it's 'SIMPLICITY'. The flesh is corrupt, but we can STILL live FOR God while in it. And the change is NOT something that 'we create', it is a 'change' that takes place through the 'molding hands of God' through His Son and The Spirit that He sent to comfort and guide us.

MEC

 

[Jay T]

And JayT, regardless of our discussions of the past concerning the Sabbath, PLEASE don't think for a moment that I 'disagree' with 'what' the Sabbath IS, and that it is CERTAILY 'one way' that we have to offer our worship, through observeance, to The One True God.

OK

I am NOT as adamantly 'bound' as you would indicate one NEED be. But that it IS important to you takes NOTHING away from 'your walk'. I DO bellieve that IS possible to live WITHOUT 'the LAW' as our guide.

For myself, I look at the 10 commandments, as a way to see where I am in my Christian walk with God.

If I find something in the Law of God that I feel is not in standard with what is written in the Big 10.....I then feel the need to go to Christ and ask HIM to straighten me out, to do His will more perfectly than what I have been doing.

To me, the Christian life is one of growth.....and if I'm not growing daily....I'M IN TROUBLE, because it is MY responsibility to be making progress, and if I'm not....then I am to blame. !

One must 'mature' FIRST to be able to live a life 'outside' the law and be able to 'overcome' the NEED.

Without the Law, how can I measure my growth process ?

For IF a man live BY THE SPIRIT, the law is NO LONGER of any effect.

The Holy Spirit WILL NEVER act contrary to God's law, because since Christ wrote out the 10 commandments on Mt Sinai....why would the Holy Spirit act contrary to what Christ said.

It would be like God saying, Yes.....and, God saying, no....at the same time.
The Holy Spirit and Christ, have to be in absolute, total harmony with each other, at all times.

That persons life WILL be transformed to mirror the image of what God would have us 'become', REGARDLESS of 'the law'.

And what has God been saying since Adam & Eve broke God's commandments ?
Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
From Genesis to Revelation....God's will has ALWAYS BEEN....for mankind to come back, into God's Law of LOVE, the 10 commandments.

This is NOT to say that there is ANYTHING wrong with those that choose to 'attempt' to follow the commandments.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Nothing at all, so long as they do it IN SPIRIT instead of a belief that this makes them 'better' than others who don't.

And as I have satated before....NO MAN cann....keep the commandments of God in their human strenght alone, BUT thru the power of God.
No man can boast about keeping the commandments, unless they also boast, that God helped them do so.

Christ fulfilled 'the law'. NOW, those that live IN THE SPIRIT are FREE from it. For the law brought SIN, and SIN, death.

WHOA !!!
Better read this very carefully.....
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Not trying to 'change' the subject, but this thing is REALLY important to understand. SO many people are held SEPARATE from God through their attempted adherance to 'the law'. So many are 'bound' by it and are unable to experience the 'freedom' wrought by Christ upon the cross. I 'believe' that an understanding of this is CRUCIAL to 'opening up one's heart' to The Spirit thus 'allowing' The Spirit to 'mold them', if you will, into that which is worthy of the gift offered.

I agree.
But remember, that the 'mold' of Christian character is the 10 commanmdnets, as they are a Christians mirrorto show them where they are at on a daily basis.
If God says: 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

I'm not going to argue with God, and say that He is wrong, for making that statement !

But REGARDLESS, there will be those that will forever be unable to grasp this understanding in 'this life'. That doesn't need 'take away' from their reward, but it certainly inpedes MUCH peace that they would find if able to understand it's 'SIMPLICITY'. The flesh is corrupt, but we can STILL live FOR God while in it. And the change is NOT something that 'we create', it is a 'change' that takes place through the 'molding hands of God' through His Son and The Spirit that He sent to comfort and guide us.

MEC

The whole object of satan's, is to remove the Law of God from the minds of Christians....to he can get them, to commit sin, while thinking themselves as 'saved'.

 

[Imagican]

Jay T,

As I have stated before, I can plainly 'see' that you ARE seeking 'The Truth'. I would not for a second try and disuade you from FOLLOWING the 10 Commandments.

However, I CAN offer this; The Commandments were a 'TEACHER'. The Hebrews WERE a 'hard-headed' people that were often immune to the TRUE Teacher and WHAT that Teacher would have had them LEARN.

Here is TRUTH, we NOW have The Holy Spirit to CONVICT us of that which is 'righteous' or that which is 'unseemly'. All we need do is ASK and we CAN receive. But this means NOTHING without FAITH.

So, the LAW was meant to TEACH a very callous people ONE THING; LOVE. They had a REAL hard time with this to the point that the LAW HAD to be given in order to TRY and TEACH them. They didn't do a REAL good job at learning. For they continuously allowed themselves to be 'led' AWAY from the LOVE that the LAW was meant to TEACH THEM.

While it is NOT a bad thing to use the commandments as an 'evalution tool', it is NOT aherance to a 'set of RULES' that God desires for us. What He WANTS MORE than ANYTHING else is for us to learn the REASON for the LAWS to START with. And that IS LOVE. For IF we love God with ALL our heart, mind and soul, and love our NEIGHBORS AS ourselves, we CAN'T disobey ANY LAW that has EVER been offered.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Mec
I stumbled onto this today and well, much of It all of it I have already
shared with you, but here it is again in a neat little passage...
It was written by a great man of God.... D.L. Moody


There are numerous passages in the New Testament which explicitly affirm the eternality of Jesus Christ.
(1) John 1:1. The word “was†in the phrase, “In the beginning was the Word,†is the Greek hen, the imperfect tense that stresses continual existence in past time. The phrase could thus be translated, “In the beginning the Word was continually existing.†John’s beginning probably goes back to the origin of the universe; John indicates that however far back one goes, the Word was continuously existing.
(2) John 8:58. Although Abraham lived two thousand years before Christ, He could say, “before Abraham was born, I am.†Although Jesus was born in Bethlehem, He claimed to have existed before Abraham. The tense is again important to notice. Before Abraham was born, Christ was continuously existing. The statement “I am,†of course, is also a reference to His deity and a claim of equality with Yahweh. “I am†is a reference to Exodus 3:14, in which God identifies Himself as “I AM WHO I AM.â€Â
(3) Hebrews 1:8. In verse 8 the writer of Hebrews begins a series of Old Testament quotations. The preface to those statements is, “But of the Son He says,†hence, the statements that follow refer to Christ. Therefore, the statement, “Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever,†is a reference to the eternality of Christ.
(4) Colossians 1:17. Paul states, “He is before all things,†stressing once more eternality and pre-existence of Christ through the use of the present tense.
Old Testament. (1) Micah 5:2. This statement emphasizes that “His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.†Although Jesus was born in Bethlehem (prophesied in this verse), that was not His beginning; He has existed “from the days of eternity.â€Â
(2) Isaiah 9:6. Christ is called the “Eternal Father.†This does not mean Christ is the Father, because they are two distinct Persons within the Trinity. It does mean that Christ also possesses the title of Father. The designation suggests both His pre-existence and eternality.
Indirect proof. (1) Christ’s heavenly origin proves His eternal existence. John 3:13 stresses that Christ “descended from heaven.†If Christ came down from heaven then Bethlehem cannot have been His beginning. This verse indicates He dwelt in heaven before coming to earth, therefore, He is eternal (cf. John 6:38).
(2) Christ’s preincarnate work proves His eternal existence. John 1:3 says that Christ created all things (“all†is emphatic). If He created all things then He must be eternal (cf. 1 Cor. 8:6).
(3) Christ’s titles prove His eternal existence. (a) Yahweh. In John 12:41 the apostle says that Isaiah saw “His glory,†a reference to Christ in the context. John, however, quoted from Isaiah 6:10 where He is clearly referring to Yahweh (cf. Isa. 6:3, 5). John thus equates Jesus with Yahweh, the Lord of the Old Testament; because Yahweh is eternal then Jesus is eternal. (b) Adonai. In Matthew 22:44 Christ quotes Psalm 110:1, “The Lord said to My Lord,†and applies it to Himself. The term “Lord†is Adonai, one of the Old Testament names of God. If Christ is designated Adonai, then He is eternal, for God is eternal.
(4) The theophanies prove His eternal existence. A theophany may be defined thus: “It is the Second Person of the Trinity who appears thus in human form.…The One of the three who is called LORD, or Jahweh, in the incident recorded in Genesis 18, is to be taken to be the Second Person of the Trinity.†The identification of Christ with the appearances of the angel of the Lord (the theophany) can be demonstrated in the following manner. The angel of the Lord is recognized as deity. He is referred to as God (Judg. 6:11, 14; note in verse 11 He is called “angel of the Lord,†while in v. 14 He is called “Lord†). The angel of the Lord in other instances is distinct from Yahweh because He talks to Yahweh (Zech. 1:11; 3:1–2; cf. Gen. 24:7). The angel of the Lord could not have been the Spirit or the Father, because neither the Spirit nor the Father are ever revealed in physical form (cf. John 1:18). The angel of the Lord no longer appears after the incarnation of Christ. There is no mention of the angel of the Lord in the New Testament; He ceases to appear after the birth of Christ.

D.L. Moody

 

[francisdesales]

Since there is ONLY ONE TRUE God, is it POSSIBLE for God to make ANOTHER God EQUAL to Himself?

You seem to not be aware of the big picture of Sacred Scriptures and the idea that God's Wisdom is personified in the OT and made manifest in the flesh in the NT. This Wisdom of God IS God...


Wisdom shall praise her own self, and shall be honoured in God, and shall glory in the midst of her people, and shall open her mouth in the churches of the most High, and shall glorify herself in the sight of his power, And in the midst of her own people she shall be exalted, and shall be admired in the holy assembly. And in the multitude of the elect she shall have praise, and among the blessed she shall be blessed, saying:

'I came out of the mouth of the most High, the firstborn before all creatures: I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth, and as a cloud I covered all the earth: I dwelt in the highest places, and my throne is in a pillar of a cloud. I alone have compassed the circuit of heaven, and have penetrated into the bottom of the deep, and have walked in the waves of the sea, And have stood in all the earth: and in every people, And in every nation I have had the chief rule: And by my power I have trodden under my feet the hearts of all the high and low: and in all these I sought rest, and I shall abide in the inheritance of the Lord. Then the creator of all things commanded, and said to me: and he that made me, rested in my tabernacle, And he said to me: Let thy dwelling be in Jacob, and thy inheritance in Israel, and take root in my elect.From the beginning, and before the world, was I created, and unto the world to come I shall not cease to be, and in the holy dwelling place I have ministered before him. And so was I established in Sion, and in the holy city likewise I rested, and my power was in Jerusalem. And I took root in an honourable people, and in the portion of my God his inheritance, and my abode is in the full assembly of saints. Sirach 24:1-16

This is the same idea found in Proverbs...

I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. Counsel [is] mine, and sound wisdom: I [am] understanding; I have strength. By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. By me princes rule, and nobles, [even] all the judges of the earth. I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. Riches and honour [are] with me; [yea], durable riches and righteousness. My fruit [is] better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his] delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights [were] with the sons of men. Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed [are they that] keep my ways. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed [is] the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD. But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8::12-36

Can anyone read these and not see that the Wisdom of God is personified, even in the Old Testament? Do we not see that God is speaking of what is to come through Jesus Christ? Did not our Lord speak in this way - making Himself known to be God's Wisdom personified? And what does the New Testament say?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:1-5

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14

Compare the red text of Sirach 24 and John 1:14. Notice something? When Christ was saying that the Old Testament spoke of Him, He means that HE HIMSELF is God's Wisdom personified. And thus, we believe that the Second Person of the Trinity is God - fully and completely. HE has made His tent among us...

Here is some more of the continuation of the concept that Jesus Christ is God's Wisdom. The Apostles clearly saw in their Christological hymns that Jesus was the cosmic dimension of the Wisdom of God made incarnate.

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God... But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1 Cor 1: 24, 30

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1: 15-20

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works. Mat 11;19

The question you ask ignores the Judeo-Christian interpretation of Sacred Writ in that God's Wisdom is personified and has come to make His tent among us in the flesh. Was there EVER a moment in time that God existed WITHOUT His Wisdom? No. Thus, in our sense of "creation", the Logos is not created, but begotten. He issues forth from the Father outside of time in the NOW of eternity of God.

Regards