This means God will still love those no matter what, even though they are sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell, God will still love them.
JLB
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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OSAS discussion without using scripture
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This means God will still love those no matter what, even though they are sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell, God will still love them.
JLB
He loves His children who are separated from Him for eternity? That isn't even rational. Being in the second DEATH cannnot occur for those who possess eternal LIFE. I don't understand why that concept isn't being understood.
Please explain how eternal LIFE can die. I cannot understand that idea.
Gary
Member
If simple belief is all that's required, could I please have your interpretation of this passage?
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Thanks.
.
Eternal life comes to those who believe.
Stop believing and you have become an unbeliever.
Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
He loves every person he has ever created. That hardly means they all love him back and want to be around him and his blessings.
Facts aren't always rational, and the facts are people God created, and whom he loves, sometimes don't want to love him back and they suffer for it.
The Holy Spirit is the stuff of eternal life. Faith in Christ is how you get the Holy Spirit. Stop having faith in Christ and you lose the Holy Spirit. No Holy Spirit-no eternal life. And until we believers actually arrive in the eternal kingdom that we can not see with our eyes we have to endure in our faith to the very end to get what the Holy Spirit--secured by that faith--guarantees. After that, that is when faith is no longer necessary and we will reside forever in a kingdom that lasts for ever and ever. But in the mean time you have to hold on to the Holy Spirit who's presence in you guarantees your entrance into the kingdom of God on the Day of Christ. And you do that by faith. Lose that faith and you lose what it secures.
Gary's right. Also, ***" us" refers to a small set of people the writer knows, a remnant, set apart in Yeshua HaMashiach,
not to the world and not to those who today call themselves 'Christian'.
I will, and I request that you interpret Acts 16:31, John 6:40, and John 3:16, please.
This passage refers to those religious types who thought they were going to get into heaven by their works. They did recognize Jesus as Lord, and their works were even for Him. But what's missing here? On what were they basing their entrance into heaven on? Works. Not faith. Faith isn't mentioned, and they do not appeal on the basis of faith, but on works. No different than the Pharisees.
Let me ask you this, regarding this passage: if more than faith is required, why didn't Jesus let them in? They sure had some great works: prophesied in His name, cast our demons in His name, and did many wonders in His name.
Have you done any of these incredible things? I sure haven't. How much more do you think Jesus requires, if more than simple faith is required?
They receive it the moment they believe. And there are no verses about loss of eternal life. Are there.
No one becomes an unchild. You keep conveniently missing that. Once a child, always a child. Once given eternal life, ALWAYS have eternal life. Unless you argue that "eternal" doesn't really mean that.
When the Bible speaks of unbelievers, it means those who have never believed. Many times the aorist tense is used for believe. If your view were correct, ALL uses of believe would be in the present tense.
Further, there would be very clearly words verses that one's salvation can be lost, and specifially HOW so.
Yet, there aren't. All the verses that y'all keep regurgitating DON'T say anything about loss of salvation. Y'all just keep reading between the lines and slipping in your eisegesis.
There is a big difference between what is SAID and what is MEANT. Y'all take the warning verses and think they MEAN loss of salvation. But the point is that there are NO verses that clearly and plainly SAY that salvation can be lost.
Calvinists have the same problem with their view of who Christ died for. For them, He died ONLY for the elect. Yet, not only are there no verses that say or indicate that, there are verses to the contrary, that He died for all (Heb 2:9).
So, what do they do? Explain those verses away to fit their theology. Just what the Arminians do with their view of loss of salvation.
You've posted that even though Rom 8:38 says that nothing in the future will separate us from the love of Christ, you warp that by claiming that those believers who cease to believe will end up in the lake of fire, and that "somehow" doesn't equal being "separated" from the love of Christ. That is just irrational.
De demonstrated His love by His Son dying on the cross for every human being. But being a child of God involves a different kind of love. A relational love. I guess some don't understand that.
That is one very irrational statement. Facts CANNOT be irrational. I guess some don't understand that.
There are NO verses that teach this.
The Holy Spirit isn't "stuff". I guess some don't understand that.
False. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be with "you" forever. No conditions about having to continue to believe, as y'all keep trying to insert. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is permanent.
Do you have any verses that teach that a believer in the NT can or has ever lost the Holy Spirit? No.
Right. And the indwelling is permanent. Jesus said so. With no "conditions" as the Arminians claim.
Except that there are no verses at all that support your claims here.
there may be some, (thinking of the ones Yeshua got angry at and cursed), may be some that Yhvh doesn't love. haven't received revelation truth about this specifically yet.
but, did read the web site "a long time ago" that pointed out, when Yhvh says that He hated esau, He meant that He hated esau, not that He loved him less than He loved Jacob, but that He did hate esau.
How do you know what the writer was thinking when he wrote that? You don't. Per your eisegesis, he could have just been referring to those in his local periphery, and not even referring to everyone in your "remnant".
Or, he could have been referring to "us" as fellow human beings.
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.Therefore do not be partakers with them.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7
Couldn't be any clearer.
JLB
Thats not what the scripture I posted from Ephesians 5 says.
Could you point out from those verses, where the idea you mentioned is?
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7
JLB
The idea that: Yhvh won't send any of HIS CHILDREN to a place of torment...
Where is that idea found in this scripture -
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7
JLB
Malachi 3
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain
16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain