OSAS is biblical truth.

[Jethro Bodine]

gr8grace,


13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end..." (Hebrews 3:13-14 NASB)


No amount of Greek study in those other passages will change the plain words of the passage above.

Read it. Your doctrine teaches the exact opposite.

And it's is not a works gospel, but that is what so many people in the church--indoctrinated by misguided and uneducated teaching--automatically hear in the argument. Not knowing that the work of believing is NOT included in Paul's works that do not justify, but is actually contrasted with the works that don't justify and is the very thing that does justify a person. I point this out because so many in the church argue that to think anything I do determines my eternal fate has to be a works gospel because my salvation was by grace apart from works. Well, it wasn't apart from what Jesus calls the 'work' of believing. A work that the Bible says MUST continue to the end to realize the hope that work lays hold of. It's impossible to argue the point in the light of such plain words of scripture.

 

[JLB]

The only biblical answer to the issue of sin and sin in the flesh, is the Spirit of Grace, the law produces sinful lust and desires in all who look to the law. "for the strength of sin is the law" Now the reason I posted this last post was to point out what is clear to all who are honest of heart.

Good post George. I don't think anyone could argue with that.


JLB

 

[gr8grace]

gr8grace,


13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end..." (Hebrews 3:13-14 NASB)


No amount of Greek study in those other passages will change the plain words of the passage above.

Read it. Your doctrine teaches the exact opposite.

And it's is not a works gospel, but that is what so many people in the church--indoctrinated by misguided and uneducated teaching--automatically hear in the argument. Not knowing that the work of believing is NOT included in Paul's works that do not justify, but is actually contrasted with the works that don't justify and is the very thing that does justify a person. I point this out because so many in the church argue that to think anything I do determines my eternal fate has to be a works gospel because my salvation was by grace apart from works. Well, it wasn't apart from what Jesus calls the 'work' of believing. A work that the Bible says MUST continue to the end to realize the hope that work lays hold of. It's impossible to argue the point in the light of such plain words of scripture.

Hebrews 3 starts of with people who have had the "heavenly calling", which should be translated "heavenly vocation"....full time Christian service. So Hebrews goes on to teach these mature believers that are in this "House of vocation" (Full time service) to be honest and teach true bible doctrine. If not they will not be in this "house of vocation" for long.

They will be "partakers"......partners or associates of the Christ(mature believers that teach Christ and the Gospel.) Nowhere in these verses are eternal damnation or condemnation for the believer.

As a matter of fact we have that pesky little PERFECT TENSE in Heb 3:14~~givomai 1096 perfect Tense~~to become,take,place,exist

E. perfect: [R; per] Expresses the results of the action to continue to exist.

 

[dadof10]

By what you have posted here, you are saying that the Greek is wrong in the OP.

Show me where the Greek and How it is presented in the OP is Wrong.


Someone show me that the Greek is wrong in the OP.

Did you actually read the OP Jethro? You are ignoring the PROOF of eternal security. You are using experiential sanctification verses for a believer or warning verses for the unbeliever to prove conditional security and I am using clear DOGMATIC verses that prove eternal security.

Who makes our faith effective for salvation? Us or the holy Spirit?

Do we ever have the power to save ourselves? At what point do we gain the power over salvation?

I have been relocating and starting my new job for the past two weeks and have not kept up with all the posts here. One of the verses in the OP is John 5, which has NOTHING to do with OSAS, unless you think we are saved by belief in the Jewish God only, not in Christ, as this is what the verse actually says (in both Greek and English). I have pointed this out to you and have not seen a response. Maybe it's there and I just missed it. Anyway, if you could please respond or point me to the response, that would be great. Then, as time permits, we can move on to Eph 2.

 

[gr8grace]

By what you have posted here, you are saying that the Greek is wrong in the OP.

Show me where the Greek and How it is presented in the OP is Wrong.


Someone show me that the Greek is wrong in the OP.

Did you actually read the OP Jethro? You are ignoring the PROOF of eternal security. You are using experiential sanctification verses for a believer or warning verses for the unbeliever to prove conditional security and I am using clear DOGMATIC verses that prove eternal security.

Who makes our faith effective for salvation? Us or the holy Spirit?

Do we ever have the power to save ourselves? At what point do we gain the power over salvation?

I have been relocating and starting my new job for the past two weeks and have not kept up with all the posts here. One of the verses in the OP is John 5, which has NOTHING to do with OSAS, unless you think we are saved by belief in the Jewish God only, not in Christ, as this is what the verse actually says (in both Greek and English). I have pointed this out to you and have not seen a response. Maybe it's there and I just missed it. Anyway, if you could please respond or point me to the response, that would be great. Then, as time permits, we can move on to Eph 2.

Its in the OP Dad. John 5:24 is not a salvation verse. It is not speaking of belief in Jesus Christ For salvation. It is the Father teaching those who have already believed in the Son that they have eternal security.

Eternal security comes from the Father. Yes the Jewish God Is teaching us about eternal security in John 5:24.

Its the Fathers(Jewish God and our Father) plan and his Son is telling believers the Fathers plan. Which is eternal security.

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him Who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

This is a point of Doctrine that Jesus is teaching that came from the Father....eternal security.

LOTS of truly saved people do not hear and believe John 5:24. Not believing it does not negate its truth. There are believers who live in it and there are believers who do not.

John 5:24 is not the Gaining of salvation, it is a principle of salvation. Eternal security.

 

[George Muller]

gr8grace,


13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end..." (Hebrews 3:13-14 NASB)


No amount of Greek study in those other passages will change the plain words of the passage above.

Read it. Your doctrine teaches the exact opposite.

And it's is not a works gospel, but that is what so many people in the church--indoctrinated by misguided and uneducated teaching--automatically hear in the argument. Not knowing that the work of believing is NOT included in Paul's works that do not justify, but is actually contrasted with the works that don't justify and is the very thing that does justify a person. I point this out because so many in the church argue that to think anything I do determines my eternal fate has to be a works gospel because my salvation was by grace apart from works. Well, it wasn't apart from what Jesus calls the 'work' of believing. A work that the Bible says MUST continue to the end to realize the hope that work lays hold of. It's impossible to argue the point in the light of such plain words of scripture.

True Scripture in its context? What is the context of this warning? Not to turn back to the law "for the law is not of faith" So to present this scripture apart from this context is to promote a false understanding and meaning of the scripture.

Like I have said over and over, legalism is the issue of scripture that shipwrecks faith. So it is those who teach legalism The Law -Ten Commandments that are in the condition of which this warning is made. Now it ALWAYS these same people who are not in faith that attempt to challenge the eternal salvation of other believers. They themselves are reprobate in regards to faith and attempt to corrupt the sincere faith of others.

 

[dadof10]

Its in the OP Dad. John 5:24 is not a salvation verse. It is not speaking of belief in Jesus Christ For salvation. It is the Father teaching those who have already believed in the Son that they have eternal security.

It has been pointed out to you that Jesus is not speaking only to believers here, but to "the Jews" who were persecuting Him (Jn. 5:18). He says "Truly, truly, I say to you...". The "you" here refers to "the Jews" from verse 18, not "believers". Here is what He also says to "them":

"His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent." (vs. 37-38). Doesn't sound like He's talking to believers to me.

Unless you can show where Jesus stopped talking to unbelievers, turned to the believers and said this verse, then turned His attention back to the Jews to finish this discourse, your premise is false.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hebrews 3 starts of with people who have had the "heavenly calling", which should be translated "heavenly vocation"....full time Christian service. So Hebrews goes on to teach these mature believers that are in this "House of vocation" (Full time service) to be honest and teach true bible doctrine. If not they will not be in this "house of vocation" for long.

Using other scripture, prove this.

Show me in the Bible this doctrine that only a select few in ministry are the household of Christ. Or is this something contrived and concocted from another Greek study?

They will be "partakers"......partners or associates of the Christ(mature believers that teach Christ and the Gospel.) Nowhere in these verses are eternal damnation or condemnation for the believer.

"7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." (Hebrews 6:7-8 NIV)

As a matter of fact we have that pesky little PERFECT TENSE in Heb 3:14~~givomai 1096 perfect Tense~~to become,take,place,exist

E. perfect: [R; per] Expresses the results of the action to continue to exist.

...all the while ignoring that the Bible says it is your believing that gives the promise of salvation it's surety.


It's okay to have opinions of doctrine. But when your doctrine actually makes grace the license to sin the Bible says NOT to have, you've crossed the line. If there was ever a time that one's doctrine put a person in danger of God's wrath it is certainly now. I couldn't imagine telling people they can willfully sin and still be okay with God. It takes what the Bible says about the testing of faith and throws it out the window.

It's nothing more than a trampling of the grace of God that rescued us from the power of sin. And Hebrews tells us what happens to those who trample the grace of God by continuing to live in the sin that Christ died to set them free from. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. This is one of those times when a discussion in the theology forum has to stop being just a curious thing and become a very serious matter of life and death.

"26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." (Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV)

Maybe we can examine this passage in the Greek and make it not mean what it so plainly says so we can take a false comfort in our disobedience.

 

[Elijah674]

If all the verses that are used for conditional security are truly showing Christians that God will toss believers in the lake of Fire. Then will conditional security adherents please disprove all the eternally secure verses?

Lets start with Eph 2:8 for starters. John 5:24 is the dogmatic verse that Jesus spoke on this earth that pertained to the doctrine of eternal security in His word.

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him Who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.â€

Pay careful attention, this is NOT a salvation verse. This is a dogmatic statement of eternal security for the believer.

NoticeThe first two words . When the Lord says, “Truly, truly†in the Greek, this is known as a sentential participle, which emphasizes an important point of doctrine. These two words actually mean, for certain, without a doubt, or indeed. Whenever the Lord Jesus Christ says, “Amen, amen†or “Truly, trulyâ€, it introduces a point of doctrine, a very vital truth of tremendous importance. The Lord Jesus Christ knew exactly what doctrinal principles Satan would attack, and “Truly, truly†is a warning that what was about to be said would inevitably be under attack by the kingdom of darkness. Each time the phrase is used, it introduces a truth that is of the greatest importance, i.e., something we need to pay particular attention to.

Eph 2:8~~For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;



"you have been saved" should read in our English as," you being saved in the past you continue on being saved now and you are saved forever and ever." It is a dogmatic and unquestionable truth from the words perspective.

It is what is called a periphrastic perfect in the Koine Greek and is one of the most powerful and forceful phrases in the Koine Greek. It is when the writer cannot get all the details and the importance of the details in one verbal form so the writer uses 2 verbal forms to get the importance of the statement across to the readers. It offers NO loopholes for the reader.

"saved" is the Intensive perfect/passive/participle of sozo in the Greek. the intensive perfect says, "the Action(saved) is a completed action and continues on forever and forever."

"you have been" is present/active/indicative of eimi. and the present tense says that ," the Action(saved) continues on in the present.

If conditional security is true. Show the readers that John 5:24 and Eph 2:8 do not prove eternal security.

Very false doctrine & will do more to fill hell up than the false purgatory one!!

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Okay, not going to wait for the response I posted to this post come back from database perdition any longer. So let's try it again.

Hebrews 3 starts of with people who have had the "heavenly calling", which should be translated "heavenly vocation"....full time Christian service. So Hebrews goes on to teach these mature believers that are in this "House of vocation" (Full time service) to be honest and teach true bible doctrine. If not they will not be in this "house of vocation" for long.

Completely and utterly unsupported by scripture itself. If there was ever a 'doctrine of demons' this is it. The intent being to make grace a license to sin. Which it is not. We know the building of Christ to be all those who belong to Christ through faith in Christ. If you do not belong to Christ you do not belong to the household of Christ. Plain and simple.


This doctrine builds people up into parts of the building and kingdom of God on this earth that will not survive the fire on the Day of Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:13 NIV). Now, if a person teaching this doctrine is really just innocently mislead by this horribly bad doctrine, they themselves can possibly be saved on that Day, but "only as one escaping through the flames" (1 Corinthians 3:15 NIV) with no reward for their labor in the building of God waiting for them (i.e. other building blocks in the building--Philippians 2:16NIV, 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20NIV, 2 Corinthians 1:14NIV) if the people who hear this doctrine believe it and do not put the Word of God to work through their believing in preparation for the Master's return (Matthew 25:26-27 NIV).

But for the person who knows better, but persists in teaching a doctrine they know is false, one that tears down the building of Christ, not builds it up into something that can withstand the Judgment to come...

"17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple." (1 Corinthians 3:17 NIV)

They will be "partakers"......partners or associates of the Christ(mature believers that teach Christ and the Gospel.) Nowhere in these verses are eternal damnation or condemnation for the believer.

Not even remotely true.

"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8 NIV)

See? Land that does not produce the fruit of the kingdom will be burned, not spared on the Day of Judgment. It's imperative that the work of our believing be seen in what we do. Just as James teaches. Believing that does not produce fruit is believing that can not save a person. Fruit is how we know we are doing the work of believing that we must do to the very end to be saved:

"...make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:5-11 NIV)


But your doctrine says we do not have to make this effort. That 'faith', even if it ends and produces nothing still confirms and ensures our entrance into the kingdom. Sorry, but that's not what the Bible says.

As a matter of fact we have that pesky little PERFECT TENSE in Heb 3:14~~givomai 1096 perfect Tense~~to become,take,place,exist

E. perfect: [R; per] Expresses the results of the action to continue to exist.

We know that when a person believes they have the very sure hope and promise of salvation. No one is arguing that. What you are ignoring is all the other Greek words that explain that we must continue in that believing for the hope of the promise to be as steadfast and continuing and sure and never-ending as believing makes it to be for a person.

 

[Elijah674]

Okay, not going to wait for the response I posted to this post come back from database perdition any longer. So let's try it again.

Hebrews 3 starts of with people who have had the "heavenly calling", which should be translated "heavenly vocation"....full time Christian service. So Hebrews goes on to teach these mature believers that are in this "House of vocation" (Full time service) to be honest and teach true bible doctrine. If not they will not be in this "house of vocation" for long.

Completely and utterly unsupported by scripture itself. If there was ever a 'doctrine of demons' this is it. The intent being to make grace a license to sin. Which it is not. We know the building of Christ to be all those who belong to Christ through faith in Christ. If you do not belong to Christ you do not belong to the household of Christ. Plain and simple.


This doctrine builds people up into parts of the building and kingdom of God on this earth that will not survive the fire on the Day of Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:13 NIV). Now, if a person teaching this doctrine is really just innocently mislead by this horribly bad doctrine, they themselves can possibly be saved on that Day, but "only as one escaping through the flames" (1 Corinthians 3:15 NIV) with no reward for their labor in the building of God waiting for them (i.e. other building blocks in the building--Philippians 2:16NIV, 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20NIV, 2 Corinthians 1:14NIV) if the people who hear this doctrine believe it and do not put the Word of God to work through their believing in preparation for the Master's return (Matthew 25:26-27 NIV).

But for the person who knows better, but persists in teaching a doctrine they know is false, one that tears down the building of Christ, not builds it up into something that can withstand the Judgment to come...

"17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple." (1 Corinthians 3:17 NIV)

They will be "partakers"......partners or associates of the Christ(mature believers that teach Christ and the Gospel.) Nowhere in these verses are eternal damnation or condemnation for the believer.

Not even remotely true.

"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8 NIV)

See? Land that does not produce the fruit of the kingdom will be burned, not spared on the Day of Judgment. It's imperative that the work of our believing be seen in what we do. Just as James teaches. Believing that does not produce fruit is believing that can not save a person. Fruit is how we know we are doing the work of believing that we must do to the very end to be saved:

"...make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:5-11 NIV)


But your doctrine says we do not have to make this effort. That 'faith', even if it ends and produces nothing still confirms and ensures our entrance into the kingdom. Sorry, but that's not what the Bible says.

As a matter of fact we have that pesky little PERFECT TENSE in Heb 3:14~~givomai 1096 perfect Tense~~to become,take,place,exist

E. perfect: [R; per] Expresses the results of the action to continue to exist.

We know that when a person believes they have the very sure hope and promise of salvation. No one is arguing that. What you are ignoring is all the other Greek words that explain that we must continue in that believing for the hope of the promise to be as steadfast and continuing and sure and never-ending as believing makes it to be for a person.

+ the Heb. Inspired Pen in the 6 chapter which documents....

[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and [[[were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,]]

[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; [[seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.]]

--Elijah

 

[gr8grace]

Okay, not going to wait for the response I posted to this post come back from database perdition any longer. So let's try it again.

Hebrews 3 starts of with people who have had the "heavenly calling", which should be translated "heavenly vocation"....full time Christian service. So Hebrews goes on to teach these mature believers that are in this "House of vocation" (Full time service) to be honest and teach true bible doctrine. If not they will not be in this "house of vocation" for long.

Completely and utterly unsupported by scripture itself. If there was ever a 'doctrine of demons' this is it. The intent being to make grace a license to sin. Which it is not. We know the building of Christ to be all those who belong to Christ through faith in Christ. If you do not belong to Christ you do not belong to the household of Christ. Plain and simple.


This doctrine builds people up into parts of the building and kingdom of God on this earth that will not survive the fire on the Day of Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:13 NIV). Now, if a person teaching this doctrine is really just innocently mislead by this horribly bad doctrine, they themselves can possibly be saved on that Day, but "only as one escaping through the flames" (1 Corinthians 3:15 NIV) with no reward for their labor in the building of God waiting for them (i.e. other building blocks in the building--Philippians 2:16NIV, 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20NIV, 2 Corinthians 1:14NIV) if the people who hear this doctrine believe it and do not put the Word of God to work through their believing in preparation for the Master's return (Matthew 25:26-27 NIV).

But for the person who knows better, but persists in teaching a doctrine they know is false, one that tears down the building of Christ, not builds it up into something that can withstand the Judgment to come...

"17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple." (1 Corinthians 3:17 NIV)

They will be "partakers"......partners or associates of the Christ(mature believers that teach Christ and the Gospel.) Nowhere in these verses are eternal damnation or condemnation for the believer.

Not even remotely true.

"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8 NIV)

See? Land that does not produce the fruit of the kingdom will be burned, not spared on the Day of Judgment. It's imperative that the work of our believing be seen in what we do. Just as James teaches. Believing that does not produce fruit is believing that can not save a person. Fruit is how we know we are doing the work of believing that we must do to the very end to be saved:

"...make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:5-11 NIV)


But your doctrine says we do not have to make this effort. That 'faith', even if it ends and produces nothing still confirms and ensures our entrance into the kingdom. Sorry, but that's not what the Bible says.

As a matter of fact we have that pesky little PERFECT TENSE in Heb 3:14~~givomai 1096 perfect Tense~~to become,take,place,exist

E. perfect: [R; per] Expresses the results of the action to continue to exist.

We know that when a person believes they have the very sure hope and promise of salvation. No one is arguing that. What you are ignoring is all the other Greek words that explain that we must continue in that believing for the hope of the promise to be as steadfast and continuing and sure and never-ending as believing makes it to be for a person.

Holy cow Jethro, calm down. Heb 3:1-6

Holy brother and sisters with the heavenly calling are compared to MOSES.

Moses was a holy Brother that was a leader over Gods House. He was a super grace believer, mature and CALLED by God to rule over Gods house in the OT. His heavenly calling(vocation) was to lead and TEACH Gods House in the OT.

The Context,context,context of Heb 3:1-6 are Gods called pastors, teachers, deacons. Moses was Gods Pastor teacher (heavenly vocation) over His House, Israel.

Show me one post where I advocate "Go on sinning". I have never seen ONE grace teacher that advocates sin. They actually teach that the worst day of a believers life is if they have SHAME at the Judgement seat of Christ. People that go on sinning after salvation will have the very worst moment of their life standing before our Lord with a undeserved resurrection body and In shame, because they never took our Lord serious.

 

[gr8grace]

If all the verses that are used for conditional security are truly showing Christians that God will toss believers in the lake of Fire. Then will conditional security adherents please disprove all the eternally secure verses?

Lets start with Eph 2:8 for starters. John 5:24 is the dogmatic verse that Jesus spoke on this earth that pertained to the doctrine of eternal security in His word.

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him Who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

Pay careful attention, this is NOT a salvation verse. This is a dogmatic statement of eternal security for the believer.

NoticeThe first two words . When the Lord says, “Truly, truly” in the Greek, this is known as a sentential participle, which emphasizes an important point of doctrine. These two words actually mean, for certain, without a doubt, or indeed. Whenever the Lord Jesus Christ says, “Amen, amen” or “Truly, truly”, it introduces a point of doctrine, a very vital truth of tremendous importance. The Lord Jesus Christ knew exactly what doctrinal principles Satan would attack, and “Truly, truly” is a warning that what was about to be said would inevitably be under attack by the kingdom of darkness. Each time the phrase is used, it introduces a truth that is of the greatest importance, i.e., something we need to pay particular attention to.

Eph 2:8~~For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;



"you have been saved" should read in our English as," you being saved in the past you continue on being saved now and you are saved forever and ever." It is a dogmatic and unquestionable truth from the words perspective.

It is what is called a periphrastic perfect in the Koine Greek and is one of the most powerful and forceful phrases in the Koine Greek. It is when the writer cannot get all the details and the importance of the details in one verbal form so the writer uses 2 verbal forms to get the importance of the statement across to the readers. It offers NO loopholes for the reader.

"saved" is the Intensive perfect/passive/participle of sozo in the Greek. the intensive perfect says, "the Action(saved) is a completed action and continues on forever and forever."

"you have been" is present/active/indicative of eimi. and the present tense says that ," the Action(saved) continues on in the present.

If conditional security is true. Show the readers that John 5:24 and Eph 2:8 do not prove eternal security.

Very false doctrine & will do more to fill hell up than the false purgatory one!!

--Elijah

A denial is just a denial. It does nothing for your point of view.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=8756]Elijah674[/MENTION] What is false about his post.

 

[WIP]

I would kindly ask that we be careful about our unsupported declarations regarding the spiritual walk of another member. Please provide appropriate scriptural support for your disagreements and remember to keep it civil with love and kindness.

 

[gr8grace]

And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:20-21)

Eternal security is related to blessings from God. The believer’s capacity for understanding the purpose and source of God’s blessing includes total awareness of eternal security. No believer can attain maturity without thoroughly understanding the doctrine of eternal security. Eternal security is not a possibility for a believer – it is an absolute and permanent reality, whether you know it or not. Your eternal security was complete and locked from the moment of salvation onward through eternity.

"Grace abounded all the more." Our English language cannot put into words and our minds cannot conceive what that statement really says.

It is a unlimited grace.

It is a non-meritorious Grace.

It is a Grace that never Quits, no matter what.

It is a grace that gives and does not take back, no matter what.

It is a grace that sent His Son, while we were ALL enemies to Him.

It is a grace that defies human reasoning.

It is a grace that is bigger than the small box or the Huge box we put God in.

It is an unending Grace that is always more, even if we think we have the most.

 

[Eugene]

OSAS is a false doctrine!

Them that believe it's false may not have a clue! Wanna tell me how you keep all the law, or that you can be erased from the book of life once in it according to Revelation 3:5? Thanks.

 

[gr8grace]

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

zoe - any events of life. ANY, ANY,ANY events of life. Name an event in life that can cause us to lose salvation. Whatever "event" one uses is an event in this life.

Once God imputes us with His righteousness and then His eternal life . . . then not even He can take back what He has graciously given. And, no creature or part of creation(that includes me and you) can do so either. God the Father infinitely loves God the Son. He also loves all of those creatures who are in Union with His Son - Christ Jesus.

 

[JLB]

And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:20-21)

Eternal security is related to blessings from God. The believer’s capacity for understanding the purpose and source of God’s blessing includes total awareness of eternal security. No believer can attain maturity without thoroughly understanding the doctrine of eternal security. Eternal security is not a possibility for a believer – it is an absolute and permanent reality, whether you know it or not. Your eternal security was complete and locked from the moment of salvation onward through eternity.

"Grace abounded all the more." Our English language cannot put into words and our minds cannot conceive what that statement really says.

It is a unlimited grace.

It is a non-meritorious Grace.

It is a Grace that never Quits, no matter what.

It is a grace that gives and does not take back, no matter what.

It is a grace that sent His Son, while we were ALL enemies to Him.

It is a grace that defies human reasoning.

It is a grace that is bigger than the small box or the Huge box we put God in.

It is an unending Grace that is always more, even if we think we have the most.

It is a Grace that only works if you believe.


JLB

 

[JLB]

OSAS is a false doctrine!

Them that believe it's false may not have a clue! Wanna tell me how you keep all the law, or that you can be erased from the book of life once in it according to Revelation 3:5? Thanks.

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19


JLB