OSAS The Truth

[smaller]

(Post removed, numerous violations of ToS 2.4. Obadiah.)

 

[JLB]

(Post removed, response to deleted post. Obadiah.)

 

[smaller]

(Removed, response to deleted post. Obadiah.)

(Edited, ToS 2.4 personal insult and trolling. Obadiah)

 

[JLB]

That’s funny that you think my answer is funny. Which I’m sure you think is funny. Which is about as helpful and meaningful reply as it was for you to simply ignore my questions to you, even though I said please and answered your question once again.
When you ask a question that has one or more questions in them and assumptions built into the question, expect funny answers. That’s why they are not allowed in legal proceedings where the goal is to determine the truth.
“How does a person who believed for a while, then no longer believes, get his sins forgiven?”
First, when you present this as some sort of anti-OSAS proof, you are obviously assuming that to be saved people must confess each and every sin they’ve ever committed, else they aren’t saved. Which is incorrect, Biblically speaking. Just look at the thief on the cross for an example of why your assumption (and this RCC notion to include the reasons for purgatory, venial vs mortal sins, etc.) is so obviously fallacious. Plus the very verse you keep posting is clearly telling you that saved people can and do deceive themselves (John even said “ourselves”, so he recognizes this even for himself) into thinking they aren’t sinning when in fact they actually are sinning.
But guess what 1 John 1:8-9 doesn’t say? It doesn’t say one word about salvation or loss thereof. If you were really interested in what the Bible had to say about salvation (versus what you think about salvation), you’d be posting Scriptures that were talking about salvation or the loss of salvation. 1 John 1:8-9 doesn’t even say anything about salvation. What it says is that Christians can deceive themselves into thinking they aren’t sinning.
But guess what it does say? “He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” As compared to my answer that you thought was so funny: “God forgives them.”
But since you didn’t ask about salvation (you asked about how a person gets his sins forgiven), I answered your question.
But since you think it’s funny. Are you aware of any other method for a person (saved or not saved) to be forgiven of sins other than the method I said; “God forgives them”?
Maybe you think another priest forgives them or that Mary forgives them? I don’t hold to those doctrines and I believe what the Bible says. That only God forgives sins. Some people think that’s a funny thing to believe. But whatever. I’m just looking at Scripture(s).


If you think you are paraphrasing John 1:8-9 with your statement above, I think I see the problem here and see why it is that you keep misquoting others on this thread and thinking it’s perfectly fine to do so. You read into the text what you want it to say, regardless of what it actually says and ignore the texts that disagree with your anti-OSAS ideas.

You didn’t answer a single one of these questions. Do you have any answers to them?

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:1-3


I ask God to forgive me, and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.


A good habit is coming before God and spending time with Him.

Reading His word, and asking Him to lead me and guide me into all truth.


Also praying in the spirit, builds up my inner man and enhances my capacity to be sensitive to His leading.


Worshiping God alone, and confessing my sins before Him and spending time in His presence is what has enabled me to overcome many many different kinds of sin and weakness and iniquity.


This gives me a greater desire and hunger for righteousness.

When I neglect this habit, then not so much.


JLB

 

[JLB]

(Post removed. Response to a deleted post. Obadiah)

 

[chessman]

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:1-3


I ask God to forgive me, and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.


A good habit is coming before God and spending time with Him.

Reading His word, and asking Him to lead me and guide me into all truth.


Also praying in the spirit, builds up my inner man and enhances my capacity to be sensitive to His leading.


Worshiping God alone, and confessing my sins before Him and spending time in His presence is what has enabled me to overcome many many different kinds of sin and weakness and iniquity.


This gives me a greater desire and hunger for righteousness.

When I neglect this habit, then not so much.


JLB

Amen! I agree with everything you just said. And, we both love the Lord. Therefore we both love each other.

I apologize if I've been overly offensive with my interactions. But we are debating issues so it's somewhat inherent and a fine line sometimes.

However, did the thief on the cross do any of the things you just mention (including, BTW, asking for forgiveness)?
Would you consider the thief saved?

Don't worry, if you'd rather not answer it's okay.

 

[smaller]

(Post removed. Response to deleted post. Obadiah.)

 

[gr8grace3]

When I neglect this habit, then not so much.

Good post JLB. No loss of salvation in it. And it is the christian way of life.

But the above quote..........


This is the nuts and the bolts of this whole debate. When another brother neglects it, they have lost their salvation,they haven't endured quite enough and have "neglected this habit" one too many times.

For one who believes that others can lose their salvation, their "score card" has enough endurance on it and they have only "neglected this habit" x amount of times. Making them good enough to make it.

 

[JLB]

Good post JLB. No loss of salvation in it. And it is the christian way of life.

But the above quote..........


This is the nuts and the bolts of this whole debate. When another brother neglects it, they have lost their salvation,they haven't endured quite enough and have "neglected this habit" one to many times.

For one who believes that others can lose their salvation, their "score card" has enough endurance on it and they have only "neglected this habit" x amount of times. Making them good enough to make it.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Unfortunately for me, and every other believer, is that we can become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, and become overcome by it, to the point where we turn away from God, no longer believing.

No longer confessing our sins before God, no longer desiring the things of God, being overcome by sin and led away captive to practice the works of the flesh, and only setting our minds on the things of the flesh, becoming entangled again in the things which were were once delivered from.

...entangled in them and overcome,

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2 Peter 2:20-21


and again -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20


...just as I also told you in time past, means Paul had warned these people before about practicing these things which will disqualify them to inherit the kingdom of God.



17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another. 26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you... 3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 4:17-5:7


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Unfortunately for me, and every other believer, is that we can become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, and become overcome by it, to the point where we turn away from God, no longer believing.

No longer confessing our sins before God, no longer desiring the things of God, being overcome by sin and led away captive to practice the works of the flesh, and only setting our minds on the things of the flesh, becoming entangled again in the things which were were once delivered from.

When we "neglect the habit" of your great post of the Christian way of life. It is being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, we have been overcome by it, we have turned away from God and no longer follow(believe) his ways. It may be for only an hour or for 30 days, a year and so on. If this were not true, we would never "neglect the habit" of the Christian way of life.

 

[Obadiah]

Thread closed for now. I'm heading off to church and I suggest the rest of you stop your fighting and do the same. I'll look into this closer later today and see if it can be re-opened or not.

Obadiah.

 

[Obadiah]

After reading the way some members have spoken to other members even after an administrative warning it has become clear that this discussion will not continue in a civilized and Christ like manner. This thread will remain closed.

Obadiah.