OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[Cygnus]

Yes, you can leave it and it is still called eternal because God is eternal. Your choice does not make it any less eternal.

By the very definition of the word - eternal - the life has no beginning and no end. This is God - not man. The eternal life dwells in us and gives us life. If the eternal life is not in us, we have no life.

1Jo 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

If you leave you no longer have life. Don't fall for the lie of satan that says you can be like God. Only God is eternal, you are dust.

Romans 8: 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

...I was looking for where this verse says God might take away your eternal life. Do you think God does it before or after you're justified? How about before or after you're glorified?

 

[Chopper]

I am involved in confronting error every single day Chopper - every single day. Do I know anyone personally? I cannot say I do for sure. There is no way to know what a persons heart is.

The verse you posted is exactly why I do what I do. I know that as the time gets shorter and shorter, more and more people will fall away - it is prophesied to happen, and I believe God did not tell us just so we would sit back and watch it happen.

Bravo my friend. Keep on doing what God has equipped you to do. Fight the good fight of faith, and never stop until you reach that other blessed shore.

 

[Nathan]

Romans 8: 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

...I was looking for where this verse says God might take away your eternal life. Do you think God does it before or after you're justified? How about before or after you're glorified?

This is all done through faith. It is a FACT that will take place. However, if you deny this fact, then you reject what He has promised to do.

God knows in the end who is going to be faithful to the end and who will not. He desires all men to be saved, but knows only a few will believe in Him for it.

The rest reject Him, thinking that they can achieve salvation by means of something they have done, and be like God because of a lie they have been told.

 

[Nathan]

Bravo my friend. Keep on doing what God has equipped you to do. Fight the good fight of faith, and never stop until you reach that other blessed shore.

You too Chopper!

Heb 3:12-15
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

 

[reba]

I sure dont understand why answering yes or no is so hard.

 

[Cygnus]

God knows in the end who is going to be faithful to the end and who will not. He desires all men to be saved, but knows only a few will believe in Him for it.

I don't think Gods going to predestine you for justification and glorification....only to let what was purchased by Jesus to slip through the cracks.

Doesn't Jude tell us Jesus is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy? Isn't it true nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord? We can't be snatched from Jesus' hand?

 

[Nathan]

I don't think Gods going to predestine you for justification and glorification....only to let what was purchased by Jesus to slip through the cracks.

Doesn't Jude tell us Jesus is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy? Isn't it true nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord? We can't be snatched from Jesus' hand?

Do you think Christ died for all the sins of mankind? If so, then why would God then require them to be punished for them?

Yes, Christ is able to keep us from stumbling. Much like I am able to keep my kids from stumbling - but when my kids decide to leave me, there is not much I can do for them when they are away.

NOTHING will separate us from the love of God. God loves the WHOLE WORLD. Does that mean the whole world will be in eternity with God?

We absolutely cannot be snatched, taken, forced, or any other such action by another from the hands of God. This says nothing of us leaving on our own free will because we choose sin over Christ.

Heb 3:12
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

 

[Cygnus]

Do you think Christ died for all the sins of mankind? If so, then why would God then require them to be punished for them?

Yes, Christ is able to keep us from stumbling. Much like I am able to keep my kids from stumbling - but when my kids decide to leave me, there is not much I can do for them when they are away.

NOTHING will separate us from the love of God. God loves the WHOLE WORLD. Does that mean the whole world will be in eternity with God?

We absolutely cannot be snatched, taken, forced, or any other such action by another from the hands of God. This says nothing of us leaving on our own free will because we choose sin over Christ.

Heb 3:12
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

Nathan, now you're playing with words.
If you're saved...you will always be saved. That's what the bible teaches and that's what a lot of peopl here have been telling you.

There is not a single verse that say we can freely walk away from God and lose our salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

Heb 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God.

All of sudden "turn away" means...loss of salvation?

 

[Nathan]

Nathan, now you're playing with words.
If you're saved...you will always be saved. That's what the bible teaches and that's what a lot of peopl here have been telling you.

There is not a single verse that say we can freely walk away from God and lose our salvation.

I'm not playing with words.

If you are in Christ you will be saved. That is what the Bible teaches.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Heb 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

1Ti 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Do the ones who depart from the faith do so because they are made to, or because they want to?

Problem is, no one has shown a passage that states you cannot leave the faith while there are many passages that state people will - and warn believers not to.

Heb 3:12
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

 

[Nathan]

Heb 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God.

All of sudden "turn away" means...loss of salvation?

Where is salvation located?

"turn away" - ἀφίστημι aphístēmi, af-is'-tay-mee; from G575 and G2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:—depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

 

[Nathan]

Here is something simple.

If I am sitting at a table with a banquet of food on it, then I "turn away" from it, withdrawing myself from it - I no longer have the food in front of me to eat. I have left the place where there is food.

God alone has salvation, and He freely gives it to those who believe. If we turn from God, we turn from what He gives.

Heb 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

 

[Cygnus]

I'm not playing with words.

If you are in Christ you will be saved. That is what the Bible teaches.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Heb 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

1Ti 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Do the ones who depart from the faith do so because they are made to, or because they want to?

Problem is, no one has shown a passage that states you cannot leave the faith while there are many passages that state people will - and warn believers not to.

Heb 3:12
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

Departing doesn't = loss of salvation. You can't provide one verse that affirms what you preach.

 

[Nathan]

Departing doesn't = loss of salvation. You can't provide one verse that affirms what you preach.

Where is salvation located?

"turn away" - ἀφίστημι aphístēmi, af-is'-tay-mee; from G575 and G2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:—depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

 

[Cygnus]

God alone has salvation, and He freely gives it to those who believe. If we turn from God, we turn from what He gives.

Where does the bible say....if we turn from God we forfeit our salvation?

I have read where the bible doesn't recommend turning from God...but have never seen where it flat out says we lose our salvation if we do.

 

[Nathan]

Jde 1:5
Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Is destruction the same as salvation?

 

[Cygnus]

Where is salvation located?

"turn away" - ἀφίστημι aphístēmi, af-is'-tay-mee; from G575 and G2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:—depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

I can turn away from my father....but my father will always be my father. I may not act as if my dad is my dad...but despite my feelings my dad will always be my dad.

 

[Nathan]

Where does the bible say....if we turn from God we forfeit our salvation?

I have read where the bible doesn't recommend turning from God...but have never seen where it flat out says we lose our salvation if we do.

Where is salvation located? If you leave salvation how do you still have it?

Heb 3:12-19
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

 

[Cygnus]

Jde 1:5
Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Is destruction the same as salvation?

OK, so now you ripped that verse out of context.

 

[Nathan]

I can turn away from my father....but my father will always be my father. I may not act as if my dad is my dad...but despite my feelings my dad will always be my dad.

That's an argument that has no bearing on the topic. You have life right now right? If you turn from that life, kill yourself, do you still have life?

The location of salvation is in God alone, through Christ alone. If you leave you leave salvation.