Other gods

[Free]

Paul delivers the term "god of this world" Free, not us. 2 Cor. 4:4

I know Paul uses that term, but as I have been saying, one must understand what is meant by the use of "god."

That's quite beside the point of there actually being 'gods.'

It's actually the entire point of this discussion.

Noted prior your little 4 choice construct only reflects what you think you personally see and nothing more. There is more to see.

I know there is more to see, such as all the verses I posted previously which you still won't address.

 

[smaller]

I know Paul uses that term, but as I have been saying, one must understand what is meant by the use of "god."

Quite entirely obviously Free Jesus said there ARE gods as did Paul and other writers. Not just imaginary i.e. non-existing gods.

It's actually the entire point of this discussion.

I read through several (if not all) your posts and don't recall you even conceding to the very scriptural fact that there are "real gods." That's why I posted the obvious scriptures regarding this subject, showing there are.

I know there is more to see, such as all the verses I posted previously which you still won't address.

I already addressed this earlier. IF you are saying there are no "gods" and such are only "imaginations" then your sights are simply off. Concede to the scriptural fact that there are gods and we probably don't have any issues on the matter. But to say there aren't "gods" is just wrong and off.

Nobody is claiming God = god(s)

 

[Free]

Quite entirely obviously Free Jesus said there ARE gods as did Paul and other writers. Not just imaginary i.e. non-existing gods.

Context, smaller. It's understanding what is meant by the use of "god" and "gods."

I read through several (if not all) your posts and don't recall you even conceding to the very scriptural fact that there are "real gods." That's why I posted the obvious scriptures regarding this subject, showing there are.

You couldn't have read through all my posts as I have addressed at least some of the Scriptures you have given and you have not addressed a single one I have given.

I know there is more to see, such as all the verses I posted previously which you still won't address

I already addressed this earlier. IF you are saying there are no "gods" and such are only "imaginations" then your sights are simply off. Concede to the scriptural fact that there are gods and we probably don't have any issues on the matter. But to say there aren't "gods" is just wrong and off.

Slow down and try to comprehend what I am writing. Several times now, I have very, very clearly stated that you are not addressing the passages in Scripture that I have given. You are continually addressing my arguments but utterly ignoring the very reasons I am making those arguments, namely, the passages of Scripture which I provided.

Nobody is claiming God = god(s)

No one is saying someone is making that claim. This shows you really aren't understanding much of what I have posted.

 

[smaller]

Context, smaller. It's understanding what is meant by the use of "god" and "gods."

You can keep pressing past the obvious Free. Are there gods or not is my question to you? Scripture says there are.

You couldn't have read through all my posts as I have addressed at least some of the Scriptures you have given and you have not addressed a single one I have given.

Just trying to get you off the basic dime question of whether there are gods or not. As noted prior your prior posts indicated to me that your claim is NOT. You are welcome to clarify.

You are continually addressing my arguments

Why yes, I am. Because you are clearly in conflict with scriptural facts.

This will be the 3rd time I've asked you, are there gods or not? If you say, as you should, that there ARE, then our dialog is done on the subject and we'd both agree with scriptures that say the same.

Not difficult to grasp.

 

[jaybird]

the gods of psalm 82 IMO are the ones in Dt 32 8. when the Most High divided the nations. Jacob would be His, the nations would be divided among the gods/angels/heavenly host.
psalm 82 IMO cant be talking about men
men are not in divine councils
men are not sons of the Most High
men already die
the Lord never appointed men leaders among the nations.

something happened between Noah and Abraham. Noah served the Most High, but by the time you get to Terah he is turned away and serving other gods and making idols. the Most High IMO started over with Abraham.

 

[smaller]

men are not sons of the Most High

Covered this before. Gots to pay attention:

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Also cited Deut. 14:1. Put Mal. 2:10 in the same category, as does Luke 3:38.

"Our Father who are in heaven" also comes quickly to mind.

 

[Free]

You can keep pressing past the obvious Free. Are there gods or not is my question to you? Scripture says there are.

If you've read my posts like you claim you have, you would know the answer. I have laid it all out quite clear and it's in agreement with what a few others have stated.

Just trying to get you off the basic dime question of whether there are gods or not. As noted prior your prior posts indicated to me that your claim is NOT. You are welcome to clarify.

I don't understand what you're saying or asking here.

Why yes, I am. Because you are clearly in conflict with scriptural facts.

This will be the 3rd time I've asked you, are there gods or not? If you say, as you should, that there ARE, then our dialog is done on the subject and we'd both agree with scriptures that say the same.

Not difficult to grasp.

I agree, it isn't difficult to grasp, but it does take some study and some thinking. You can keep claiming that I am "clearly in conflict with scriptural facts," but it will be clear to anyone who reads this thread that you have willfully and purposefully completely ignored the passages I gave. You even ignored the context of what I said, just as you continually take verses out of context. This shows that you do not care about truth.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Well of course unseen entities fall into the category of little g gods. And yes, they are real and do exist, contrary to the claims that many are (surprisingly) trying to make here.

Here is a demonstration of the "power" of one of these gods:

Matt. 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Any being who could do the above, notwithstanding the "truth" of any of it, could certainly be considered a real entity and thus, a little g, god, which IS how Paul describes this adverse (to God and man) spiritual entity in citings such as Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2.

We also know from scriptures that there are anti-Christ spirits. IF Christ is a Spirit or The Spirit OF GOD, which IS the case, and there are such spirits in the ANTI-Christ sense, then we might even consider the "god status" of such beings, and even observe they are ANTI-God gods.

A demon can have the name of a god and be worshiped as such. But at the end of the day it is still just a demon. People believe in ghosts. But a "ghost" is just a demon out of a human host. Is Satan real? Yes. Are demons real? Yes. Are they gods? In the carnal mind......yes. In the Christian mind....we know who they really are.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

10 thread pages in and still going strong. If you guys haven't started to get frustrated yet then congrats. I don't think I can last this long without some argumentative frustrations popping up. If on the other hand you can see your own agitation growing, take a break or walk away.

Least we become like the friends of Job who came with good intentions to comfort their friend. But instead drove into debates trying to make Job say what he could not say. And Job in defense talking just as harshy back to them.

If you can, sit back with a coke and calm your nerves before going on. Just in case you nerves are agitated without you noticing.

Just a thought.

 

[daninthelionsden]

10 thread pages in and still going strong. If you guys haven't started to get frustrated yet then congrats. I don't think I can last this long without some argumentative frustrations popping up. If on the other hand you can see your own agitation growing, take a break or walk away.

Least we become like the friends of Job who came with good intentions to comfort their friend. But instead drove into debates trying to make Job say what he could not say. And Job in defense talking just as harshy back to them.

If you can, sit back with a coke and calm your nerves before going on. Just in case you nerves are agitated without you noticing.

Just a thought.

You must be from the south. Here in Texas all soda, soft drinks ,pop, etc are called coke. " Hey can you pick me up some cokes while you're at the store? Sure which ones? Dr. Peppers. OK"..........
No. But seriously. I've often thought how we should be careful how we present any "advanced knowledge" we may think we have while we are alive on this earth because we all see through the glass darkly. When we are joined with our Lord we will know all. Then poof there goes any and all spiritual advantages we may have thought we possessed in our natural lives. Then all we will be left with is how we behaved when we thought we were sooooo smart. We could all wind up looking pretty darned foolish if we didn't behave well. I know I for one will have some "splain'n" to do.

 

[smaller]

I don't understand what you're saying or asking here.

Obviously as I've asked you several times without getting an answer.

Are these gods or not?

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[smaller]

A demon can have the name of a god and be worshiped as such. But at the end of the day it is still just a demon.

Nobody is saying or claiming god = GOD.

People believe in ghosts. But a "ghost" is just a demon out of a human host. Is Satan real? Yes. Are demons real? Yes. Are they gods? In the carnal mind......yes. In the Christian mind....we know who they really are.

I'd suggest you're confusing the matters with god = GOD.

The Bible does refer to "god" and "gods" in the little g application and often these are real, not just idols or imaginations. I've given a couple examples of "real" gods, not just gods in the carnal mind, from John 10:34 and 2 Cor. 4:4 as examples.

Here is a definition of how and to whom the term "god" is deployed:

Definition:

1. (plural)
   1. rulers, judges
   2. divine ones
   3. angels
   4. gods
2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
   1. god, goddess
   2. godlike one
   3. works or special possessions of God
   4. the (true) God
   5. God

There are several posters in this thread who are claiming there are no gods. That is false.

There are gods.

 

[jaybird]

Nobody is saying or claiming god = GOD.

I'd suggest you're confusing the matters with god = GOD.

thats one issue, another is not understanding monotheism and polytheism.
mono is the worship of one and no more.
poly - worship of many, of those many some are equal. among the polytheist cultures there was never one that worshiped one and believed in many.

 

[smaller]

thats one issue, another is not understanding monotheism and polytheism.
mono is the worship of one and no more.
poly - worship of many, of those many some are equal.

True.

For simplicity sake I was trying to establish a reasonably solid scriptural fact that there are real "gods" presented in the scriptures, NOT merely imaginations of man, as some in this thread are proposing.

 

[Free]

thats one issue, another is not understanding monotheism and polytheism.
mono is the worship of one and no more.
poly - worship of many, of those many some are equal. among the polytheist cultures there was never one that worshiped one and believed in many.

Not quite. I posted on this earlier. Monotheism is the belief in only one God or god. There are no others. Henotheism is the belief in one supreme god and doesn't exclude belief in other lesser gods. Monolatry is the worship of one god but also doesn't necessarily deny the existence of other gods.

Polytheism is the belief in the existence in more than one god and may include the worship of more than one god.

Christianity is strictly monotheistic.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

You must be from the south. Here in Texas all soda, soft drinks ,pop, etc are called coke. " Hey can you pick me up some cokes while you're at the store? Sure which ones? Dr. Peppers. OK"..........
No. But seriously. I've often thought how we should be careful how we present any "advanced knowledge" we may think we have while we are alive on this earth because we all see through the glass darkly. When we are joined with our Lord we will know all. Then poof there goes any and all spiritual advantages we may have thought we possessed in our natural lives. Then all we will be left with is how we behaved when we thought we were sooooo smart. We could all wind up looking pretty darned foolish if we didn't behave well. I know I for one will have some "splain'n" to do.

Actually, I'm more part of the midwest then the south. Ha, but I sure did show some southern roots there didn't I? My figuring on presenting our knowledge (as well as most anything we do with others), is that no matter what sitution we are in, God gave us lessons and standards to live by. If by proving your right means to go against one of Jesus's teachings, then you are no longer in the right. If it's no longer about who's right, but about defending your stance or defending those you love or those you see struggling, then be cautious. Satan has used our motivations to try and snare us, and your good fight might turn petty and ugly. Know the signs when things are getting out of hand so to keep yourself out of trouble and out of useless squables. Proverbs 17:14

 

[jaybird]

Not quite. I posted on this earlier. Monotheism is the belief in only one God or god. There are no others. Henotheism is the belief in one supreme god and doesn't exclude belief in other lesser gods. Monolatry is the worship of one god but also doesn't necessarily deny the existence of other gods.

Polytheism is the belief in the existence in more than one god and may include the worship of more than one god.

Christianity is strictly monotheistic.

Monotheism is the belief in one Most High who is above all things,who creates all things and gives all life .
we have already shown that Satan is called a god as well as angels and thats more than one, so either your definition of monotheism is wrong or our faith is not monotheistic.

 

[Free]

Monotheism is the belief in one Most High who is above all things,who creates all things and gives all life .
we have already shown that Satan is called a god as well as angels and thats more than one, so either your definition of monotheism is wrong or our faith is not monotheistic.

Now that is the false dilemma fallacy (smaller ). At least one other option is that your definition and understanding of "god" does not match up with the Bible's use of the word, and several of us have shown that to be the case.

 

[smaller]

smaller your definition and understanding of "god" does not match up with the Bible's use of the word, and several of us have shown that to be the case.

The term god/gods is deployed and not only as imaginary god/gods. That's all there is to the matter, whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[Free]

The term god/gods is deployed and not only as imaginary god/gods. That's all there is to the matter, whether you acknowledge it or not.

You clearly haven't understood very much of what I and others have been saying. Your position goes against Scripture, as is evidenced by your continued lack of addressing the passages of Scripture I gave. Is the reason you don't address them because they don't fit your theology? Because they don't. And that means your understanding of the matter is significantly deficient.