Our salvation is in Mary

[donadams]

Had you read the ten commandmentsyou would know that the answer is Yes they are forbidden.

Explain how in five chapters later images are commanded ex 25

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!

1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (on the cross)

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?
Potters field? Pottery images

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.


2 cron 2:7 Send me now therefore a man cunning to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in iron, and in purple, and crimson, and blue, and that can skill to grave with the cunning men that are with me in Judah and in Jerusalem, whom David my father did provide.

Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons—of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

Thks

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

I read your response as being cross or irritated, he ce my response.

OK.
So does that mean you believe in the Communion of the Saints, or not?
I am still a bit confused as to your position on that point and do not want to make assumptions

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

Explain how in five chapters later images are commanded ex 25

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!

1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (on the cross)

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?
Potters field? Pottery images

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.


2 cron 2:7 Send me now therefore a man cunning to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in iron, and in purple, and crimson, and blue, and that can skill to grave with the cunning men that are with me in Judah and in Jerusalem, whom David my father did provide.

Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons—of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

Thks

Zacariah 11:13
Very interesting. That is a verse I did not know about.

 

[donadams]

Zacariah 11:13
Very interesting. That is a verse I did not know about.

Anytime

 

[Free]

You said:

Scripture alone is the highest and only infallible authority to which all Church leaders are subject.

My response:

And who holds them accountable in that manner? Me, or you? If you and I disagree on Scripture, who then decides between you and I?

It depends on the issue, whether it is a primary, secondary, or tertiary issue, or something else. Some things allow for differences of opinion and some don't. All Christians need to hold all other Christians accountable, particularly Christian leaders, theologians, and scholars holding each other accountable, and including the thousands upon thousands of writings throughout the centuries.

When disagreement arises, then, as here and everywhere else, the entirety of the evidence should be provided for each position, and then arguments and counter-arguments made for each position. Sometimes it becomes clear which position is most likely to be the true one and sometimes not.

The main thing to remember is that we all "see in a mirror dimly," as Paul himself wrote. No one has perfect knowledge of Scripture, no one has perfect knowledge of themself, no one is perfectly free from the biases of their own mind, and no one is perfectly free from the influence of sin and the devil. There is simply no way that any human being on earth or has ever been on earth, can be an infallible authority on Scripture. Only Jesus was. Hence, only Scripture can be the final and infallible authority, despite everyone's inability to be completely correct in their understanding of it.

Your quotations of Galatians is referring to the Kerygma (preaching) of the Gospel by the Apostles. That was ORALLY SPOKEN long before it was all written down. St. Paul was merely saying that even if he came back and PREACHED something different than what he had already preached, that the Church was not to heed him.
Nothing about Scripture there. You are forcing that on the text.

I don't understand your argument here. Are you saying that what Paul preached was infallible but what he wrote was not? What is the difference? Is the Pope, for example, not considered to be infallible in his declarations? Do his declarations differ from what he writes? Paul wrote down in Galatians, which is Scripture, what he had previously said and he is consistent in what he is continuing to say. His writing is no different than what he had previously stated and is just as authoritative.

And St Paul is talking about how we will see when we have put off mortality for immortality in the next life.

In Galatians 1:6-9? Where is that in the text? Throughout Galatians he is talking about how works do not save and that we are justified by faith.

The Apostles had perfect knowledge of the Gospel in order to preach it to the world.

Of course they did, but I don't understand how this addresses the issue.

 

[Fastfredy0]

The Apostles had perfect knowledge of the Gospel in order to preach it to the world.

I doubt that. Peter got scolded by Paul for the way he was handling things. I don't know of any scripture saying their preaching would be without error. This is an assumption. I grant their canonize writings were without error and it seems probably they were more accurate than most.

 

[Who Me]

Where does it say he had sex with mary?

Read Matt 1:25 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

the word ' consummate' means to have sexual intercourse.

 

[Who Me]

Which commandment?

The ignorance of the rcc is amazing Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 

[Who Me]

OK.
So does that mean you believe in the Communion of the Saints, or not?
I am still a bit confused as to your position on that point and do not want to make assumptions

I believe what I wrote that All Christians, no matter what denomination are part of the visible and invisible church, that is the bride of Christ.

 

[Who Me]

Explain how in five chapters later images are commanded ex 25

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!

1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (on the cross)

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?
Potters field? Pottery images

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.


2 cron 2:7 Send me now therefore a man cunning to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in iron, and in purple, and crimson, and blue, and that can skill to grave with the cunning men that are with me in Judah and in Jerusalem, whom David my father did provide.

Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons—of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

Thks

Images that are worshipped are forbidden. the serpent on a pole became an object of worship and was destroyed. The cherubim on the ark were not worshipped.
Images in languages are not worshipped, but are a means of explaining things.


Council desissions, like visions, words of knowledge and sermons are to be checked against scripture.
The bible clearky says we are not to bow down before statues, paintings etc etc etc.

 

[Dyonisius the Areopagite]

I believe what I wrote that All Christians, no matter what denomination are part of the visible and invisible church, that is the bride of Christ.

Yes, I understand that you believe that, but is it the same belief as "The Communion of the Saints"? Do you know what I mean when I say "Communion of the Saints"?

 

[Who Me]

Yes, I understand that you believe that, but is it the same belief as "The Communion of the Saints"? Do you know what I mean when I say "Communion of the Saints"?

If you don't mean what Paul wrote in Romans 12 4-13 then no I don't know what you mean.

 

[donadams]

Read Matt 1:25 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

the word ' consummate' means to have sexual intercourse.

Yes and ot says they did not do it!
You say it says they did do it?

They only consented to marrige but never to sex, Lk 1:34 prevents it

Thks

 

[donadams]

The ignorance of the rcc is amazing Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

I know the content of the commandments is found in ex 20 but where are the list of the commandments 1,2,3, etc

 

[donadams]

Images that are worshipped are forbidden. the serpent on a pole became an object of worship and was destroyed. The cherubim on the ark were not worshipped.
Images in languages are not worshipped, but are a means of explaining things.


Council desissions, like visions, words of knowledge and sermons are to be checked against scripture.
The bible clearky says we are not to bow down before statues, paintings etc etc etc.

I never said: “its ok to worship images”!

Bowing and kneeling are not worship
Example the Protestant cowboy kneeling before the cross!

Is he worshiping a piece of wood no cos he has no such intention

Thks

 

[Who Me]

Yes and ot says they did not do it!
You say it says they did do it?

They only consented to marrige but never to sex, Lk 1:34 prevents it

Thks

This is really twisted thinking.
Mary asks the angel how she will become pregnant as she is a virgin.

This is not a permanent condition. The hymen that shows virginity in women would have been broken by the passage of Jesus out of her womb.
Joseph honoured her spe cial status and ensured there could be no accusation that he father zjesus by not having sex with Mary until after he was born.
As Mathew 1:25 say he consummated the marriage after zjesus was born.
He and Mary had sex as any normal married couple would.

 

[Who Me]

I never said: “its ok to worship images”!

Bowing and kneeling are not worship
Example the Protestant cowboy kneeling before the cross!

Is he worshiping a piece of wood no cos he has no such intention

Thks

If he assum3s it has religous significance then yes he is worshipping the cross.

 

[Who Me]

I know the content of the commandments is found in ex 20 but where are the list of the commandments 1,2,3, etc

You are aware that the chapter numbers and verse numbers are not part of the inspiration of scripture.
Equally the boards seen in some churches with nicely numbered lists of the ten commandments are not devinlyinspired.
You will find the commandments as follows:-
Resources
Hebrew/Greek
Your Content
Exodus 20
New International Version
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

 

[donadams]

This is really twisted thinking.
Mary asks the angel how she will become pregnant as she is a virgin.

This is not a permanent condition. The hymen that shows virginity in women would have been broken by the passage of Jesus out of her womb.
Joseph honoured her spe cial status and ensured there could be no accusation that he father zjesus by not having sex with Mary until after he was born.
As Mathew 1:25 say he consummated the marriage after zjesus was born.
He and Mary had sex as any normal married couple would.

No Christian’s believe the virgin birth, Mary was virgin before during and after the miraculous birth of Christ Isa 7:14 virgin shall bear a son remaining a virgin

Were Adam and eve married in the garden of eden? Yes
Did they have sex in the garden? No


Biblical principles

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.


Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

A son singular not a family:

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Only the God-man is born of a Virgin-mother

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Gen 4:1 Adam knew his wife, Lk 1:34 betrothed to Joseph say “I know no man, scripture Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit! Joseph was full of joy to be the guardian of Mary and her purity!

Mary in her humility not considering herself worthy be the mother of the messiah made a vow of perpetual virginity to God and would not violate this vow even at the angel’s announcement that she was to become the mother of God!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever

Thks

 

[donadams]

If he assum3s it has religous significance then yes he is worshipping the cross

Only God mat be lawfully worshiped and adored!