Paul said there is "one baptism"

[Mungo]

You are taking a second hand view (Luke) of another (Peter) who is preaching a sermon!

Wow!. You are claiming that scripture, the word of God, is unreliable.

Think carefully about that.

It is an action being taken that has no explanation.

This is the perfect scenario to be misunderstood.

Explain those comments

Let me show you something that I didn't point out, It was John Calvin who pointed this out around 500 years ago.

Acts 10:44-48
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

You can plainly see in this passage of Scripture, as Calvin pointed out, that they received the Holy Spirit and were saved BEFORE Peter commanded them to be water baptized.

The incident with Cornelius is a special case and not a good example to generalise from. Consider the following.

1. Peter was sent to Cornelius as a demonstration to Peter and the Church that they must include the Gentiles in their mission. As James says after Peter recalled the incident in Acts 15 - “Symeon has described how God first concerned himself with acquiring from among the Gentiles a people for his name.” (Acts 15:14). This incident therefore was God’s initiative to begin bringing the gentiles into the Church.

2. This was the second part of God’s fulfilling the prophecy of Joel that Peter quoted at Pentecost.
“‘It will come to pass in the last days,’ God says, ‘that I will pour out a portion of my spirit upon all flesh’”.
For the Jews mankind was divided into two – Jews and Gentiles. At Pentecost God poured out his Spirit on the Jews. Now with Cornelius God is pouring out his Spirit on the Gentiles.

3. The third point to note is that Cornelius is not just any old Gentile. He is a “God-fearer”, a Gentile who was almost converted to Judaism who often attended the synagogue (see Acts 13:16) and kept the Jewish prayer times – as Cornelius was when the Angel visited him.
“Now in Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of the Cohort called the Italica, devout and God-fearing along with his whole household, who used to give alms generously to the Jewish people and pray to God constantly. One afternoon about three o’clock, he saw plainly in a vision an angel of God come in to him” (Acts 10:1-3).

Cornelius was also a righteous man, acceptable to God. The angel said to Cornelius:
““Your prayers and almsgiving have ascended as a memorial offering before God. (Acts 10:4)
“Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your almsgiving remembered before God.” (Acts 10:31)

The whole incident is therefore unique.

Moreover your point is not even supported by this incident.
It says in Acts 11:14 that Peter “will speak words to you [Cornelius] by which you and all your household will be saved”. Those words includes Peter’s command (not suggestion) that they be baptised (Acts 10:48). Peter was still instructing them on what they must do when the Holy Spirit was poured out on them and interrupted Peter’s instructions.

The instructions for baptism are part of Peter’s instructions as to how Cornelius and his household will be saved.

Moreover you say about my use of Acts "You are taking a second hand view (Luke) of another (Peter) who is preaching a sermon!"

But you are doing exactly the same with the incident with Cornelius.

I gave you scripture to show that baptism was with water. You have made no attempt to show those scripture were wrong, except to try and rubbish scripture.

In your previous post you claimed baptism was nothing to do with salvation.
Bust Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
Peter wrote, when talking about Noah and the eight saved from the flood "Baptism,...., now saves you" (1 Pet 3:21

 

[Deidr]

Water baptism is a commandment of Christ. The apostles enforced it with vigor. But it has nothing to do with our salvation other than showing literally what took place spiritually.

Paul told a crowd that he was glad that he water baptized none of them. Then he called out the very few that he had water baptized. If there was salvation in water baptism, you most certainly would have heard it from Paul. But you don't hear that from Paul.

Paul preached that we are saved by Grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

Now you explain to me how water baptism is not a work? You can't be water baptized without another man performing a ceremony on your behalf. It's not depending on Jesus Christ, it's depending on man to get the job done!

Interesting, I might digress a little, for Jesus seemed to show his work as people moved in faith.

But my personal belief Is the one Baptism is being immersed, into the life of Christ.

I take that from passages like 1 Peter 3:21
And Matthew 28:10-12

The answer/response to a clear conscience before God
Is in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (God is God)

My interpretation
The removing of dirt from the skin would make the outside clean. But that was not the Baptism being spoken of.

But that is what made them clean then, in symbol.
What would save us now from day to day circumstances as the removal of dirt did for them in their daily lives?

Noah's ark prefigured it. 8 people were saved through water who were in the ark.

The one thing about the ark was it was above the water. And the water was sent to destroy the earth and those not in the ark.

How would you have a good conscience that you would not be destroyed with the rest? Because you obeyed God and prepared for His coming.

And how does "found in the ressurrect of Christ"account for this? Because remaining in the teachings of Christ is the way of righteousness and fellowship where God is with you.

Therefore, Baptize by teaching those learners to do all that God has commanded you and lo I will be with you even til the end of the age.
Another words one is immersed in the presence of God , when they are taught to do what Jesus commanded.

Which is how they have a good conscience before God.

Matthew 28:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 Peter 3:21
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[Charlie24]

Interesting, I might digress a little, for Jesus seemed to show his work as people moved in faith.

But my personal belief Is the one Baptism is being immersed, into the life of Christ.

I take that from passages like 1 Peter 3:21
And Matthew 28:10-12

The answer/response to a clear conscience before God
Is in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (God is God)

My interpretation
The removing of dirt from the skin would make the outside clean. But that was not the Baptism being spoken of.

But that is what made them clean then, in symbol.
What would save us now from day to day circumstances as the removal of dirt did for them in their daily lives?

Noah's ark prefigured it. 8 people were saved through water who were in the ark.

The one thing about the ark was it was above the water. And the water was sent to destroy the earth and those not in the ark.

How would you have a good conscience that you would not be destroyed with the rest? Because you obeyed God and prepared for His coming.

And how does "found in the ressurrect of Christ"account for this? Because remaining in the teachings of Christ is the way of righteousness and fellowship where God is with you.

Therefore, Baptize by teaching those learners to do all that God has commanded you and lo I will be with you even til the end of the age.
Another words one is immersed in the presence of God , when they are taught to do what Jesus commanded.

Which is how they have a good conscience before God.

Matthew 28:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 Peter 3:21
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The Sanhedrin that crucified Christ also loved God, but when the requirement came for salvation (Christ) they rejected Him. When the requirement for salvation was brought to the house of Cornelius and his household (Peter preaching Christ crucified) they heard, believed and were saved on the spot.

 

[Charlie24]

Again the context would determine the statements truth.
I have faith that God's Son, Jesus, died on a cross to free me from sin.
But I also have faith that if I don't pay my electric bill, they will cut off my power.

Absolutely.
I have faith that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is given to those who repent of sin and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins past.
That is what occurred in Samaria and to the twelve at Ephesus.
Peter said it would happen in Acts 2:38, and I have faith his words are true.

Any one living without sin is walking in the light, which is God.
There is in sin in God.

I wonder then why he wrote..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
And..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
And..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)

Where?
If you are thinking of Phil 3, what he had yet to attain was the resurrection of the dead.

As Jesus is our example, lets do as He did.

If you can't take an honest look at your life and realize you can't keep the commandments of Christ perfectly, then you have serious problems wit God.

The born-again are to stop "practicing sin" willfully as we did before we were saved. When Paul said, "how can we sin any longer" that's what he was speaking of . So was John speaking of the same.

Christ made it clear that sin is not just a physical action but can be committed in thought. If it were possible for man to no longer make mistakes, then it may be possible to no longer sin. But that is not the case!

 

[Deidr]

The Sanhedrin that crucified Christ also loved God, but when the requirement came for salvation (Christ) they rejected Him. When the requirement for salvation was brought to the house of Cornelius and his household (Peter preaching Christ crucified) they heard, believed and were saved on the spot.

Good Mornting Charlie
I am not sure of the point you are making.

They did not like that He put His self on the same level as God. Nor want Jesus to take over so they conspired to kill Him.

Acts 10
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

....not sure the point u r making though

 

[Charlie24]

Good Mornting Charlie
I am not sure of the point you are making.

They did not like that He put His self on the same level as God. Nor want Jesus to take over so they conspired to kill Him.

Acts 10
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

....not sure the point u r making though

There are those in hell right now who believed in God, had a moral code they lived by, helped people all their lives.

But they would not repent and accept Christ as their Saviour.

Cornelius lived at a time when Christ had recently came. His love for God was not good enough, and God had mercy on Him and sent an angel to arrange his salvation, knowing he would believe in Christ.

He sent Peter, and he preached Christ crucified for the sin of man, and Cornelius believed and was saved.

 

[Deidr]

There are those in hell right now who believed in God, had a moral code they lived by, helped people all their lives.

But they would not repent and accept Christ as their Saviour.

Cornelius lived at a time when Christ had recently came. His love for God was not good enough, and God had mercy on Him and sent an angel to arrange his salvation, knowing he would believe in Christ.

He sent Peter, and he preached Christ crucified for the sin of man, and Cornelius believed and was saved.

Ok, but your point....

 

[Charlie24]

Ok, but your point....

My point was to Mungo, it seems you have the correct knowledge, if i read your earlier post correctly.

 

[Highway54]

Why did he say there is "one baptism?" First, let's take a look at this one baptism.

Col. 2: 11-13
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

This is the "spiritual baptism" the "one baptism" that Paul is speaking of. It takes place the instant of hearing the Gospel and believing in His finished work. It's not water baptism, it is what Jeremiah spoke of "the circumcision made without hands," Paul called it "baptized into Christ" throughout His letters. It has nothing to do with water, it's your true salvation in the eyes of God.

So what about the other 2 baptisms found in the New Covenant, water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in other tongues? Paul said there is "one baptism."

Water baptism is not a baptism to itself, it is the reenactment of the "spiritual baptism," which is your true salvation. In the "spiritual baptism" you are baptized/immersed into Christ spiritually, symbolically done in water being immersed in Christ.

"Buried with Him in baptism" (spiritually), symbolically buried in the water. "Raised a new creature in Christ" symbolically being raised out of the water. So water baptism is a part of the "one baptism" spiritually performed by Christ. In other words, water baptism is symbolic of the one true spiritual baptism. Which means the only purpose of water baptism is to give a literal reflection of the one true spiritual baptism, which is also our literal confession of salvation.

The "baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues" in spite of what the Pentecostals claim, is not a baptism! It is a "filling/receiving of the Holy Spirit" and is always referred to in that manner.

The only one who literally says, "baptized with the Holy Spirit" is John the Baptist. Before the Pentecostals came along claiming this is what John the Baptist spoke of, all the great theologians agreed that John the Baptist was speaking of "the one baptism" the spiritual baptism into Christ. In other words, the instant of our salvation. It is through faith in the finished work of Christ that the Holy Spirit, spiritually baptizes us into Christ, "the one baptism."

This is where all the confusion comes from with the Pentecostals "baptism of the Holy Spirit." They have given it a name that has already been given meaning!

I think you hit the nail on the head Charlie. I believe that baptism was referring to the baptism of the holy spirit. All Christians undergo water baptism at some point but only 144,000 from among them get chosen to be baptized by holy spirit as well.

 

[Charlie24]

I think you hit the nail on the head Charlie. I believe that baptism was referring to the baptism of the holy spirit. All Christians undergo water baptism at some point but only 144,000 from among them get chosen to be baptized by holy spirit as well.

Hello, Highway, it's been a long time! I remember many conversations we had years ago on other sites.

If I remember correctly, you're a JW. LOL, we had some knock down drag out conversations over that.

I'm happy to see that you believe in the spiritual baptism, but as to who receives that baptism we disagree.

It's good to hear frm you, Highway, even though we disagree on many things.

 

[Mungo]

Why did he say there is "one baptism?" First, let's take a look at this one baptism.

Col. 2: 11-13
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

This is the "spiritual baptism" the "one baptism" that Paul is speaking of. It takes place the instant of hearing the Gospel and believing in His finished work.

Where does scripture say that a "spiritual baptism"takes place the instant of hearing the Gospel and believing in His finished work.

 

[Mungo]

I think you hit the nail on the head Charlie. I believe that baptism was referring to the baptism of the holy spirit. All Christians undergo water baptism at some point but only 144,000 from among them get chosen to be baptized by holy spirit as well.

Where does scripture speak of a "baptism of the holy spirit"?

Answer - it doesn't.
The [noun] phrase was seems to have been invented by R A Torrey at the end of the 19th century and picked up by the Pentecostals at the start of the 20th century.

 

[Charlie24]

Where does scripture say that a "spiritual baptism"takes place the instant of hearing the Gospel and believing in His finished work.

Rom. 6:3-6
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Water baptism is visual reenactment of this spiritual baptism. It is confessing what took place when you were spiritually "baptized into Christ.

I have already shown you in Col. 2 where this spiritual baptism is "the circumcision of Christ" and "the operation of God."

 

[Charlie24]

Mungo

Maybe this will help you understand!

In Col. 2:11 where Paul says "in whom you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands" he is saying it's a spiritual circumcision.

It's not performed with hands as the literal physical circumcision God demanded of Abraham and Israel in covenant.

 

[Mungo]

Rom. 6:3-6
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Water baptism is visual reenactment of this spiritual baptism. It is confessing what took place when you were spiritually "baptized into Christ.

I have already shown you in Col. 2 where this spiritual baptism is "the circumcision of Christ" and "the operation of God."

None of your scripture says "spiritual baptism"

Water baptism is visual reenactment of this spiritual baptism. It is confessing what took place when you were spiritually "baptized into Christ.

That is just an opinion. Scripture does not say that.

I have already shown you in Col. 2 where this spiritual baptism is "the circumcision of Christ" and "the operation of God."

Col 2:11 says nothing about a "spiritual baptism". That is your invention.

 

[Charlie24]

None of your scripture says "spiritual baptism"


That is just an opinion. Scripture does not say that.



Col 2:11 says nothing about a "spiritual baptism". That is your invention.

If this doesn't say "spiritual baptism" there ain't no cows in Texas!

Col. 2:11-12
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands (spiritual circumcision), in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Do you see that? The circumcision made without hands is being "buried with Him is baptism."

Plain as day, the "one baptism" is the spiritual baptism into Christ.

 

[JLB]

This is where all the confusion comes from with the Pentecostals "baptism of the Holy Spirit." They have given it a name that has already been given meaning!

There are three distinct and different baptisms that Paul taught us about.

These three baptism represent the "fullness" of the one baptism just as the fullness of the Godhead (Father,Son and Holy Spirit) represent the one God.

The Scriptures teach there are three distinct and different baptisms with three distinct and different baptizers.


Would you care to discuss this from the scriptures?




JLB

 

[Charlie24]

There are three distinct and different baptisms that Paul taught us about.

These three baptism represent the "fullness" of the one baptism just as the fullness of the Godhead (Father,Son and Holy Spirit) represent the one God.

The Scriptures teach there are three distinct and different baptisms with three distinct and different baptizers.


Would you care to discuss this from the scriptures?




JLB

Sure, after you explain why Paul said there is "one baptism."

 

[Mungo]

If this doesn't say "spiritual baptism" there ain't no cows in Texas!

Col. 2:11-12
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands (spiritual circumcision), in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Do you see that? The circumcision made without hands is being "buried with Him is baptism."

Plain as day, the "one baptism" is the spiritual baptism into Christ.

No, none of those say spiritual baptism. You invented that.

Baptism with water was foreshadowed in the OT both in the story of Noah and the flood (see 1Pet3) and in Number 8: 6-8 & 21
“Take the Levites from among the Israelites and cleanse them. Thus you shall do to them, to cleanse them: sprinkle the water of purification on them, have them shave their whole body with a razor and wash their clothes, and so cleanse themselves……The Levites purified themselves from sin and washed their clothes”

After his speech at Pentecost, Peter said to those assembled: Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. (Acts 2:38)

Ananias to Paul: Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away, calling upon his name. (Acts 22:16).
Washed away is apolouo. The only other time this appears in the Bible is 1Cor 6:11
but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Then in Col 2:11-13 Paul says
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

The point is that it is baptism (with water) that God forgives out sins and brings us the new life in Christ.

This renewal was also foreshadowed in the OT
So Naaman went down and plunged into the Jordan seven times at the word of the man of God. His flesh became again like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. (2Kg 5:14)

And in the NT
“..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)

Yes, spiritual things happen in baptism. But that doesn't mean the baptism is spiritual.

 

[Mungo]

Sure, after you explain why Paul said there is "one baptism."

Because there is only one true baptism (in water).
Other mentions of baptism or being baptised are metaphors.