Paul said there is "one baptism"

[gordon777]

I would think everyone agrees with that. My point was that works are the result of faith.

It's the faith that saves us, not the works.

Works are faith that Jesus Christ did.

NO works is no faith.

We understand through faith God made the works of all creation, then rested, and we labour the same way to go into the same rest of God. ( works in faith)



John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[gordon777]

So it is the very opposite, it is works that save us, and not faith only.


James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Charlie24]

So it is the very opposite, it is works that save us, and not faith only.


James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If you believe that works literally save us, then there is no way you can see Paul and James agreeing on how one is saved.

Paul plainly said, "for you are saved by grace through faith, and NOT of works, lest any man should boast."

So who's right on this? Do you see Paul and James disagreeing?

 

[gordon777]

If you believe that works literally save us, then there is no way you can see Paul and James agreeing on how one is saved.

Paul plainly said, "for you are saved by grace through faith, and NOT of works, lest any man should boast."

So who's right on this? Do you see Paul and James disagreeing?

Paul did works did you not notice through faith..


Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

 

[Charlie24]

Paul did works did you not notice through faith..


Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Paul's works were the result of being saved by grace through faith. In other words, his works proved his salvation, just as James was pointing out.

James was not saying that faith + works = salvation. He was saying that true salvation has works.

He and Paul both plainly said that Abraham was justified by faith. But James points out a true faith that has works.

 

[Highway54]

Paul is the example of proper works for the Kingdom of God. Surrendering oneself in faith to Christ and allowing Him to work through you.

The problem I have with the JW''s, their works are not properly placed. They are teaching a works salvation. They are giving the example of faith + works = salvation.

This is not what Paul taught! In fact, he taught just the opposite.

The parable of the talents is not about achieving heaven through works. It's about the works proving ones faith. It's exactly what James was teaching on works and faith, that faith proves our works.

The ones who gained for Christ were proving where there faith was, while the ones with no gain were proving there was no faith. This parable is about faith, Robert.

The "unprofitable servant" is the one who is a Christian by name only, who has no real faith, so the works are unprofitable. Their faith is not completely in Christ, and that is the kind of faith necessary to produce proper works.

The parable of the talents is not about achieving heaven through works.

I agree, but for salvation would you say the one with one talent is saved Charlie?

It's about the works proving ones faith. It's exactly what James was teaching on works and faith, that faith proves our works.

Exactly! Jesus truly earned everlasting life, but was given immortality. He was the only one to live the law covenant without violation till death. We cannot earn everlasting life, it is a gift that God gives sir Rom 6:23. That is what we teach.

We are very open in our teachings, and they are all in writing, not just me or someone else saying it, so feel free to post from our publications where we can earn salvation. You will find that we are in full agreement with you.

 

[Charlie24]

I agree, but for salvation would you say the one with one talent is saved Charlie?

Exactly! Jesus truly earned everlasting life, but was given immortality. He was the only one to live the law covenant without violation till death. We cannot earn everlasting life, it is a gift that God gives sir Rom 6:23. That is what we teach.

We are very open in our teachings, and they are all in writing, not just me or someone else saying it, so feel free to post from our publications where we can earn salvation. You will find that we are in full agreement with you.

I know for a fact that the JW's believe that salvation is not possible without good works.

What does that mean, Robert? Is that a salvation dependent on works?

Paul states that if your good works do not pass the test of fire, you will still be saved by faith!

1 Cor. 3:13-15
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

 

[Highway54]

I know for a fact that the JW's believe that salvation is not possible without good works.

What does that mean, Robert? Is that a salvation dependent on works?

Paul states that if your good works do not pass the test of fire, you will still be saved by faith!

1 Cor. 3:13-15
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

I know for a fact that the JW's believe that salvation is not possible without good works.

I believe it is possible that you might know one of our beliefs better than one of us, but not probable Charlie, so you have the floor my friend, quote the publication.

 

[Charlie24]

I believe it is possible that you might know one of our beliefs better than one of us, but not probable Charlie, so you have the floor my friend, quote the publication.

How long would you be a JW if you didn't meet the requirements they lay out?

Those requirements are a necessity for salvation, right or wrong?

 

[Highway54]

How long would you be a JW if you didn't meet the requirements they lay out?

Those requirements are a necessity for salvation, right or wrong?

Pretty simple really Charlie, at any given time if a Christian does not meet the requirements of God, they they are not a Christian.

Many who you will see in the new world if you are there sir, will have never even heard of God. The only ones who will not receive a resurrection are those who have sinned against the holy spirit.

The Salvation of most will be dependent upon the requirements given during the millennial reign of Christ Charlie.

 

[Charlie24]

Pretty simple really Charlie, at any given time if a Christian does not meet the requirements of God, they they are not a Christian.

Many who you will see in the new world if you are there sir, will have never even heard of God. The only ones who will not receive a resurrection are those who have sinned against the holy spirit.

The Salvation of most will be dependent upon the requirements given during the millennial reign of Christ Charlie.

This is some messed up stuff, Robert! Salvation is dependent on faith in Christ, the rest will fall in line behind and because of faith.

This requirement thing of JW works is not a law of God, It's the natural result of faith, of believing.

 

[Highway54]

This is some messed up stuff, Robert! Salvation is dependent on faith in Christ, the rest will fall in line behind and because of faith.

This requirement thing of JW works is not a law of God, It's the natural result of faith, of believing.

Would you say those of Mat 7:21-23 had faith in Christ Charlie. I would, yet they did not have salvation, why? The answer is found in verse 21 sir.

 

[Charlie24]

Would you say those of Mat 7:21-23 had faith in Christ Charlie. I would, yet they did not have salvation, why? The answer is found in verse 21 sir.

When the Lord comes for His Church, and He most definitely will, you had better be watching and have your lamp full of oil, or your not going to make that trip home.

The oil that they were empty of was a type of the Holy Spirit, 5 had the Holy Spirit, but 5 had lost Him, and the door was shut. We don't know the moment He will come, we had better be ready with our faith strong which allows the Holy Spirit to work.

This thing of faith for the believer is no joke, Christ is dead serious about it. He asks very little of us, but He demands faith in His finished work. We have to stay in fellowship with our Lord! When He comes and that fellowship is not there, the cares of this world have separated you from that relationship, those will be the ones as the 5 who met a shut door.

 

[justbyfaith]

baptism can be identified as three-in-one (a triune entity):

1) water

2) Spirit

3) fire.

These are intertwined so that you cannot have one without the other two; and you cannot have two without the other one.

If I am baptized in the Spirit it is because I have been baptized in water (Acts 2:38-39).

 

[Highway54]

When the Lord comes for His Church, and He most definitely will, you had better be watching and have your lamp full of oil, or your not going to make that trip home.

The oil that they were empty of was a type of the Holy Spirit, 5 had the Holy Spirit, but 5 had lost Him, and the door was shut. We don't know the moment He will come, we had better be ready with our faith strong which allows the Holy Spirit to work.

This thing of faith for the believer is no joke, Christ is dead serious about it. He asks very little of us, but He demands faith in His finished work. We have to stay in fellowship with our Lord! When He comes and that fellowship is not there, the cares of this world have separated you from that relationship, those will be the ones as the 5 who met a shut door.

Remember Charlie, obedience is the key when Jesus returns sir. What is your take on his return spoken about in 2 Thes 1:6-9? Do you believe that you truly have to know God and obey the gospel or be destroyed? I truly don't think Paul was exaggurating when he penned that.

 

[Charlie24]

Remember Charlie, obedience is the key when Jesus returns sir. What is your take on his return spoken about in 2 Thes 1:6-9? Do you believe that you truly have to know God and obey the gospel or be destroyed? I truly don't think Paul was exaggurating when he penned that.

John 6:29
"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

"Obeying the Gospel" is believing in Christ! Works are the result of faith, not the means.

The Scripture does NOT say, "Abraham did good works and it was counted to him for righteousness."

It says, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness."

Abraham believed God when He told him of the coming Messiah, Abraham actually believed the Messiah would come to redeem man.

We know this because Christ said in John 8:56,

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

We don't know exactly how God revealed this to Abraham, but we know he knew! Believing God that the Messiah would come is the reason for all the works that Abraham did. He was saved by believing/faith not by his works.

His works were proof of his salvation by faith.

 

[jaybo]

John 6:29
"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

"Obeying the Gospel" is believing in Christ! Works are the result of faith, not the means.

The Scripture does NOT say, "Abraham did good works and it was counted to him for righteousness."

It says, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness."

Abraham believed God when He told him of the coming Messiah, Abraham actually believed the Messiah would come to redeem man.

We know this because Christ said in John 8:56,

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

We don't know exactly how God revealed this to Abraham, but we know he knew! Believing God that the Messiah would come is the reason for all the works that Abraham did. He was saved by believing/faith not by his works.

His works were proof of his salvation by faith.

You wrote "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Jesus never spoke in an archaic form of any language. He spoke Aramaic, a Hebrew dialect of the common people. A much more accurate translation is "Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” or "Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

 

[Charlie24]

You wrote "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Jesus never spoke in an archaic form of any language. He spoke Aramaic, a Hebrew dialect of the common people. A much more accurate translation is "Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” or "Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Yes, I agree that Christ spoke Aramaic.

 

[DJT_47]

Why did he say there is "one baptism?" First, let's take a look at this one baptism.

Col. 2: 11-13
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

This is the "spiritual baptism" the "one baptism" that Paul is speaking of. It takes place the instant of hearing the Gospel and believing in His finished work. It's not water baptism, it is what Jeremiah spoke of "the circumcision made without hands," Paul called it "baptized into Christ" throughout His letters. It has nothing to do with water, it's your true salvation in the eyes of God.

So what about the other 2 baptisms found in the New Covenant, water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in other tongues? Paul said there is "one baptism."

Water baptism is not a baptism to itself, it is the reenactment of the "spiritual baptism," which is your true salvation. In the "spiritual baptism" you are baptized/immersed into Christ spiritually, symbolically done in water being immersed in Christ.

"Buried with Him in baptism" (spiritually), symbolically buried in the water. "Raised a new creature in Christ" symbolically being raised out of the water. So water baptism is a part of the "one baptism" spiritually performed by Christ. In other words, water baptism is symbolic of the one true spiritual baptism. Which means the only purpose of water baptism is to give a literal reflection of the one true spiritual baptism, which is also our literal confession of salvation.

The "baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues" in spite of what the Pentecostals claim, is not a baptism! It is a "filling/receiving of the Holy Spirit" and is always referred to in that manner.

The only one who literally says, "baptized with the Holy Spirit" is John the Baptist. Before the Pentecostals came along claiming this is what John the Baptist spoke of, all the great theologians agreed that John the Baptist was speaking of "the one baptism" the spiritual baptism into Christ. In other words, the instant of our salvation. It is through faith in the finished work of Christ that the Holy Spirit, spiritually baptizes us into Christ, "the one baptism."

This is where all the confusion comes from with the Pentecostals "baptism of the Holy Spirit." They have given it a name that has already been given meaning!

The one baptism without doubt is water immersion. By being immersed in water, your sins are remitted, you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and are added to the body of Christ which is his church, according to Acts 2:38-47.

The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in water as recorded in Acts 8.

 

[eddif]

I am way late getting into this. I usually try and speed read ( my version of speed read) and catch up.

This time with your permission I will jump in and be corrected/refined if necessary.

Condition 1. In sins and unaware you are a sinner.

Condition 2. You hear the presentation of John the Baptist and realize you need to repent of sins and believe in Jesus. This was a water baptism.
At this point you are lost and cry out what must I do to be saved.

Condition 3. You hear the gospel. This is the answer to solve the problem of your sins you discovered in condition 2.

Condition 4. Jesus baptizes you in the Holy Spirit (using teaching and laying on of hands). This baptism is so that you may have power to be a witness.

Baptism is a immersion into knowledge of sin , salvation, empowerment
Or
A. Baptism into the Knowledge of the Father (we have sinned against the Father)
Repentance.
B. Baptism into the knowledge of what the Son Jesus did to secure our salvation.
He knocks at the door and if we open the door the quickening spirit enters us to make us alive in Christ.
Salvation
C.Baptism in the Holy Spirit is so you can have power to witness so others can be saved. The Great Commission says to baptize in the name of
Father - repentance
Son - salvation
Holy Spirit - empowerment for service

This is the redneck version.
Ask questions. Correct/refine.

Each denomination/group tends to add a word now and then. Side notes and new words and translations all tend to make all this difficult.

eddif