Paul: "The Just (justified) Shall Live by Faith" Romans 1:17.

[Robert Pate]

Paul was quoting Habakkuk when he wrote Romans 1:17. Old Testament saints were justified by faith in God's promise of a Messiah that would save them from their sins, Romans 4:3. They looked forward to seeing their Messiah, we look back to when he was here, we are all justified by faith.

There are many different kinds of faith. Some have faith in a church or a religion, while others have faith in a doctrine written by someone that is not in the Bible. There is only one kind of faith that saves and that is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, "In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

Under the New Covenant faith counts for righteousness. Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5. Good works are the results of salvation, not the cause of it. We do good works because we are saved, not to be saved.

The New Testament as well as the Old Testament is about faith. The 11th chapter of Hebrews is about the faith of the Patriarchs. It is a must read. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him" Hebrews 11:6.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many of the OT saints were already dead before Jesus came to earth that were of faith who believed in God and obedient to His commands. Those who were/are alive are under a new covenant of God's grace through Christ Jesus who now sits at the right hand of the Father making intersession for all who will come to Him and repent of their sins becoming Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit of promise are joined with the OT saints in the resurrection when Christ returns and all by faith are caught up to meet Him in the air and for evermore be with Him for eternity.

Hab 2:1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
The Righteous Shall Live by His Faith
Hab 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
Hab 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.


Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Robert Pate]

Many of the OT saints were already dead before Jesus came to earth that were of faith who believed in God and obedient to His commands. Those who were/are alive are under a new covenant of God's grace through Christ Jesus who now sits at the right hand of the Father making intersession for all who will come to Him and repent of their sins becoming Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit of promise are joined with the OT saints in the resurrection when Christ returns and all by faith are caught up to meet Him in the air and for evermore be with Him for eternity.

Hab 2:1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
The Righteous Shall Live by His Faith
Hab 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
Hab 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.


Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

We are very fortunate to be able to look back and have the full revelation of Jesus in the New Testament. Many of the Old Testament saints died before Jesus arrived, but they died in the faith, Hebrews 11:39, because they believed God, Romans 4:3. Habakkuk was written about 500 or 600 years before Jesus arrived.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are very fortunate to be able to look back and have the full revelation of Jesus in the New Testament. Many of the Old Testament saints died before Jesus arrived, but they died in the faith, Hebrews 11:39, because they believed God, Romans 4:3. Habakkuk was written about 500 or 600 years before Jesus arrived.

It's all about God's grace and faith

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Robert Pate]

It's all about God's grace and faith

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You are one of the rare ones that found it, Matthew 7:14. What most have found is religion.

 

[for_his_glory]

You are one of the rare ones that found it, Matthew 7:14. What most have found is religion.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Romans10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

 

[donadams]

Paul was quoting Habakkuk when he wrote Romans 1:17. Old Testament saints were justified by faith in God's promise of a Messiah that would save them from their sins, Romans 4:3. They looked forward to seeing their Messiah, we look back to when he was here, we are all justified by faith.

There are many different kinds of faith. Some have faith in a church or a religion, while others have faith in a doctrine written by someone that is not in the Bible. There is only one kind of faith that saves and that is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, "In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

Under the New Covenant faith counts for righteousness. Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5. Good works are the results of salvation, not the cause of it. We do good works because we are saved, not to be saved.

The New Testament as well as the Old Testament is about faith. The 11th chapter of Hebrews is about the faith of the Patriarchs. It is a must read. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him" Hebrews 11:6.

God’s promises are salvation?

 

[for_his_glory]

God’s promises are salvation?

Scripture please.

Not all of God's promises are good, but justified by His judgement as some promises of God are for the goodness of those who walk by faith, and promises to those who reject Him and have no faith.

 

[donadams]

Scripture please.

Not all of God's promises are good, but justified by His judgement as some promises of God are for the goodness of those who walk by faith, and promises to those who reject Him and have no faith.

That was a question?

 

[for_his_glory]

That was a question?

And I tried to answer it???

 

[Robert Pate]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Romans10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Very good. Here is something for you to consider. The words "Law" and "Religion" mean the same thing. When one is doing the law, they are doing their religion. Paul said, "By the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified" Romans 3:20.

 

[Robert Pate]

Very good. Here is something for you to consider. The words "Law" and "Religion" mean the same thing. When one is doing the law, they are doing their religion. Paul said, "By the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified" Romans 3:20.

What is your comment on Romans 3:20? Does this mean that all religions (what we do) are worthless? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I understand that this Forum is pro religion.

 

[Tenchi]

What is your comment on Romans 3:20? Does this mean that all religions (what we do) are worthless? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I understand that this Forum is pro religion.

Faith and corresponding works are so intertwined, the former leading inevitably (though, not necessarily) to the latter, that to claim to have trusted in Christ as Savior and then to live like the devil, without any sign of the indwelling Holy Spirit in one's life (Romans 8:9-16), is, at least, to give fellow believers good cause to seriously doubt one's claim to salvation. Paul said it was possible to examine one's life, to test it, and see if one was "in the faith," or not. He said also that others could apply the same test to him and see that he was in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5-6). Faith precedes works but it does naturally give rise to corresponding works, to a concrete expression of what one truly believes. (James 2:17-26) And so, we encounter in the NT many injunctions to holiness (Matthew 5:48: Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 1:16; 1 Peter 3:1-12, etc.)

 

[Robert Pate]

Faith and corresponding works are so intertwined, the former leading inevitably (though, not necessarily) to the latter, that to claim to have trusted in Christ as Savior and then to live like the devil, without any sign of the indwelling Holy Spirit in one's life (Romans 8:9-16), is, at least, to give fellow believers good cause to seriously doubt one's claim to salvation. Paul said it was possible to examine one's life, to test it, and see if one was "in the faith," or not. He said also that others could apply the same test to him and see that he was in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5-6). Faith precedes works but it does naturally give rise to corresponding works, to a concrete expression of what one truly believes. (James 2:17-26) And so, we encounter in the NT many injunctions to holiness (Matthew 5:48: Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 1:16; 1 Peter 3:1-12, etc.)

Works are not an indication of faith. There are many cults and false religions that can outshine most Christians. Religions and cults are an indication of the absence of faith. The only real indication of whether or not one is a Christian is their doctrine. Do they believe that they are justified by faith or is it by faith plus works. To add anything that we do to the Gospel is to pervert the Gospel and is an indication of the absence of faith. Jesus is the one that fulfilled the law. Jesus is the one that atoned for the sins of the world. All that we are called to do is to believe it and trust in it.

 

[Free]

Works are not an indication of faith. There are many cults and false religions that can outshine most Christians. Religions and cults are an indication of the absence of faith.

And yet, “faith without works is dead;” it isn’t a true faith.

The only real indication of whether or not one is a Christian is their doctrine.

Where does the Bible say that?

Do they believe that they are justified by faith or is it by faith plus works. To add anything that we do to the Gospel is to pervert the Gospel and is an indication of the absence of faith.

You are conflating two different ideas—justification by faith and works that are evidence of faith.

Jesus is the one that fulfilled the law. Jesus is the one that atoned for the sins of the world. All that we are called to do is to believe it and trust in it.

For justification, yes, but there is far more to living the Christian life.

 

[for_his_glory]

What is your comment on Romans 3:20? Does this mean that all religions (what we do) are worthless? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I understand that this Forum is pro religion.

Who are you addressing this to?

 

[Robert Pate]

Some say that there is no conflict between Paul and James, I say that there was.

To begin with the book of James was not written to Gentile believers, it was written to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. James was a Judaizer, a Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:1. James was the head of the church in Judea. There were many Judaizers in the early church that could not believe that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. James was one of them. Paul made it clear that, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

James and others wanted to circumcise Gentile believers, Acts 15:1-29. There was contention between James and Paul concerning this. James relented providing that the Gentiles keep parts of the law, Acts 15:19-21.

James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, a Jewish no, no. When the Judaizers walked into the Wednesday night dinner Peter and Barnabas went under the table. Paul saw the whole thing and went ballistic, Galatians 2:11-21.

The book of James was one of the first books of the Bible, it is very Jewish. There is very little in the book of James about Jesus and his Gospel and a whole lot of emphasis on works. Works do not save, nor do they justify, Romans 3:20. Works are not an indication of faith. There are many that are trying to work their way into heaven by their good works, not going to happen.

 

[Robert Pate]

And yet, “faith without works is dead;” it isn’t a true faith.


Where does the Bible say that?


You are conflating two different ideas—justification by faith and works that are evidence of faith.


For justification, yes, but there is far more to living the Christian life.

The Christian life is not of man, nor is it of his flesh. That would be religion. I agree that there is a lot of fleshy religions that are of man. Paul said, "For we are his workmanship, created in Jesus Christ unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10.

Works are not an indication of faith. There are multitudes of counterfeits that are trying to work their way into heaven. Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Free]

The Christian life is not of man, nor is it of his flesh. That would be religion. I agree that there is a lot of fleshy religions that are of man. Paul said, "For we are his workmanship, created in Jesus Christ unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10.

You just shot down your entire argument and every thread and post you’ve made on this topic. Notice that we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” If someone believes that he or she is a Christian, but isn’t doing good works, then that person isn’t truly saved.

Works are not an indication of faith.

A lack of works is an indication of a lack of faith.

There are multitudes of counterfeits that are trying to work their way into heaven. Matthew 7:21-23.

Of course, but that has nothing to do with the NT command that believers are to follow the commandments of Christ and walk in good works, which are evidence of their faith.

 

[Robert Pate]

You just shot down your entire argument and every thread and post you’ve made on this topic. Notice that we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” If someone believes that he or she is a Christian, but isn’t doing good works, then that person isn’t truly saved.


A lack of works is an indication of a lack of faith.


Of course, but that has nothing to do with the NT command that believers are to follow the commandments of Christ and walk in good works, which are evidence of their faith.

Here is where we part company.

If you need to be told by the commandments not to sin, then you most likely are void of the Holy Spirit.