Paul: "The Just (justified) Shall Live by Faith" Romans 1:17.

[Free]

In your post you used the word "commandment or command" 21 times.

Yes, directly quoting scripture.

Without a doubt you have a law-based theology. The problem with a law-based theology is that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. To everyone that believes the Gospel. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the law and the commandments. I don't think that you believe that.

In our name and on our behalf, Jesus met all of the demands of the law and the commandments. This is why Paul said, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" Romans 3:28. I fear for you. You are not under grace, you are under the law. "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10.

I asked you five simple questions. Please answer each of them.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, directly quoting scripture.


I asked you five simple questions. Please answer each of them.

I did, here it is again, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

Why do you want to discuss something that has been abolished? Ephesians 2:15.

You are in denial of the New Covenant and justification by faith without the law, Romans 3:28.

 

[Free]

I did, here it is again, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

Why do you want to discuss something that has been abolished? Ephesians 2:15.

You are in denial of the New Covenant and justification by faith without the law, Romans 3:28.

I have twice asked you for answers to five simple questions, but you are clearly avoiding answering them, which is very dishonest and disrespectful. If you're not going engage others in honest and respectful theological discussion, then perhaps it's better if you don't post in Theology.

You're also in violation of the ToS and the rules of this forum by misrepresenting my position. If you continue to do so, you might find yourself unable to respond to this thread.

 

[Robert Pate]

I have twice asked you for answers to five simple questions, but you are clearly avoiding answering them, which is very dishonest and disrespectful. If you're not going engage others in honest and respectful theological discussion, then perhaps it's better if you don't post in Theology.

You're also in violation of the ToS and the rules of this forum by misrepresenting my position. If you continue to do so, you might find yourself unable to respond to this thread.

Your position is that the law has NOT been abolished. You are in conflict with the apostle Paul's Gospel.

This is not a Christian Forum. Go ahead and ban me and every other Christian that believes in the Gospel and justification by faith.

 

[Iconoclast]

Under the New Covenant, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. And not by rules, laws or religion.

Living by rules, laws and religion is an indication of the absence of faith.

What is the faith that Christians live by? It is faith that Jesus has ALREADY reconciled them and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. And that they are ALREADY complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Only about 10% of professing Christians believe this, the rest believe that they are saved by works.

ANTINOMIANISM DOES NOT INDICATE THE BIBLE FAITH. iT SHOWS YOU ARE NOT AQUAINTED IN IT.

 

[Iconoclast]

In your post you used the word "commandment or command" 21 times. Without a doubt you have a law-based theology. The problem with a law-based theology is that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. To everyone that believes the Gospel. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the law and the commandments. I don't think that you believe that.

In our name and on our behalf, Jesus met all of the demands of the law and the commandments. This is why Paul said, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" Romans 3:28. I fear for you. You are not under grace, you are under the law. "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10.

Once again RP uses 4 verses without understanding any of them .His wrong conclusions lead to an ungodly view of the commandments as Free has posted several verses on the commandments. Read FREE's posts, turn away from the false teaching of pate.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your position is that the law has NOT been abolished. You are in conflict with the apostle Paul's Gospel.

This is not a Christian Forum. Go ahead and ban me and every other Christian that believes in the Gospel and justification by faith.

God's law is not abolished. Romans 3:31

 

[for_his_glory]

Very good. Here is something for you to consider. The words "Law" and "Religion" mean the same thing. When one is doing the law, they are doing their religion. Paul said, "By the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified" Romans 3:20.

Law and religion does not mean the same thing, especially when we are no longer under the curse of the law, but now under a better covenant of God's grace with the greatest law being that of love which leads us in our conduct that we still follow the moral parts of the law.


Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

Your position is that the law has NOT been abolished

This is where you error in your understanding.


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

 

[Hopeful 2]

It appears to me that you are trying to bring the "not yet" into the now. Spiritually, we were crucified with Christ, Galatians 2:20. Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15. It is poor theology to mix the spiritual with the physical. They are two separate aspects of salvation.

Which rules in your life?
Spiritual or physical
Does your physical serve the Spirit?
Or does your spirit serve your flesh?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The words "Law" and "Religion" basically mean the same thing. The law is man's attempt to justify himself through works and obedience. Paul said, "By the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

As Paul says "by the deeds of the Law", it is pointless to add any other things to "the Law".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will do good works, but good works do not save or justify. There are multitudes that are doing good works not because they have faith but because they are trying to be good enough to be saved. Matthew 7:21-23.

Agreed.
But those doing unGodly things are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit...are they.

 

[Deidr]

What does Eph 2:10 say? What about Matt 28:19-20? What about John 13:34, 14:15, 21, and 15:9-17? Or what about 1 John 2:3-8, 3:22-24, 4:21, 5:2-3? And 2 John 1:5-6?

Hi, I opened this post up and it did not start at the beginning. So just to add to this some thoughts from some of the scriptures quoted.

Joh 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
...

Do you think this is saying If you love me then you will do this for me?

Or that keeping the commands comes from abiding in His love?

By abiding I take that to mean to continually be faithful to His teachings

Joh 14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

Joh 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.

Joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
Joh 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
Joh 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
1Jn 2:8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

(All ESV.)

Not only does Jesus himself give his followers commandments to follow, he says that "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. . . . Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father." In other words, a person cannot claim to love Jesus and be his friend but not follow his commandments. And if they don't love Jesus, as seen in keeping his commandments, then the Father won't love them.

That is why John says that 'Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him," and that "Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him." In these passages, John is simply reiterating Jesus's words--God only abides in those who love him and whose love is shown by keeping his commandments.

Anyone who says or lives otherwise, doesn't actually love Jesus and so "is a liar, and the truth is not in him." That's according to Jesus's and John's words, not mine.

I did, here it is again, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

Why do you want to discuss something that has been abolished? Ephesians 2:15.

You are in denial of the New Covenant and justification by faith without the law, Romans 3:28.

Robert you do know that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness. BUT THE LAW ITSELF HAS NOT PASSED AWAY.

ANOTHER WORDS OF GOD’S CHOSEN THEY WERE THE SOURCE OF THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS. If they could keep the law in their own strength or on their own natural abilities, the flesh.

Yet we know the flesh was weak and they could not. Therefore what they could not do because of the weakness of man's flesh God sent His son to do. So that the righteous requirement of the law is met through Him.

So Jesus now is the source of Salvation
to anyone who believes. Not man. In part 2 let's discuss that.

 

[Free]

Hi, I opened this post up and it did not start at the beginning. So just to add to this some thoughts from some of the scriptures quoted.

Do you think this is saying If you love me then you will do this for me?

Or that keeping the commands comes from abiding in His love?

The latter. If we actually love him, then we should automatically want to obey his commands out of love for him. It is evidence of our love for him.

By abiding I take that to mean to continually be faithful to His teachings

It might include that, but I think it also includes spending time with him, communicating with him, and walking by the Spirit.

 

[Deidr]

The latter. If we actually love him, then we should automatically want to obey his commands out of love for him. It is evidence of our love for him.


It might include that, but I think it also includes spending time with him, communicating with him, and walking by the Spirit.

Why do you believe that obedience would be automatic?

 

[Free]

Why do you believe that obedience would be automatic?

I said that I think obedience should be automatic, but it isn’t because we still fight sin. Why wouldn’t someone who professes to love and follow Christ, who is God, Lord, and King, not want to obey his commands out of love for him? I would find it very concerning if someone claimed to be a Christian and didn’t want to follow Christ’s commands out of love for him. Jesus himself implies that such a person doesn’t actually love him. Don’t you think it should be automatic?

 

[donadams]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Romans10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Religion means bondage:

Bondage means we are bound.
Bound to God and His law of love, self-denial / self-sacrifice.
We belong to God purchased by the precious blood of Jesus Christ!
Acts 20:28 1 pet 1:18-19

Psalm 23 The Lord is my shepherd.

United to God thru Christ the only mediator in the new covenant church by the holy truth and sacraments revealed by Jesus Christ eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and taught by the apostolic and holy mother church!

Thank God for the new covenant religion that binds us to himself!

Thanks