Paul was not saved by faith

[reba]

Isn't our faith from God.... Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: So it is a circle ?

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Saul of Tarsus or the apostle Paul was chosen by God but he also had a tremendous amount of faith.

A faith unlocked by God. God removed the veil, he saw the truth, and changed. Had Paul not been visited by Jesus he would have not changed.

 

[reba]

That is the same with us all?

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Isn't our faith from God.... Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: So it is a circle ?

hahaha Reba. I dunno I'm trying to make sense of it I really am. The bible says not to ask dumb questions but this is not a dumb question. This is important to my understanding of salvation and trying to teach people how to be saved.

 

[smaller]

Most of you guys are simply running circles around this issue. Why is it so hard to say that Paul was not saved by faith, but by God?

That really wasn't the question. What you question was the origination of faith from Saul and no, that wasn't the case. Saul the blinded slave of Satan originated nothing.

But to say that Paul had no faith however it was obtained is not true. Saul did not originate anything.

Some agree with me that faith was gained after the visitation but not after. I think what it is is that most are considering my statement like works salvation. And essentially it is....but it is Gods works. No it was not of Pauls doing. Nor does this happen to everyone everyday. Paul is proof of that.

And I would agree with that assessment.

 

[smaller]

Eternal salvation is a free gift. But what you are saying is that God must give you the faith that you then believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and get saved?

You seem to have concurred as much.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Not to derail the thread but look at John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." So that means no matter how hard I try I cannot physically "snap someone out of" the veil?

However would that also mean that the tracts I lay are not in vain? and they will be seeds others will see as the father draws them? Because I can remember things through the years like that when others sowed seeds. They wanted to "wake me up to". But I didnt. Not till God woke me up. And I did make a choice to accept Jesus as lord and savior.

Is it vanity to think we can wake people up then and turn them to God when WE want to? But its not up to us.

 

[TOG]

MWhy is it so hard to say that Paul was not saved by faith

Why are you so adamant that he wasn't? What actual scriptural evidence do you have that Paul was in a way different from other people. Paul himself said that we are saved by grace through faith. Why do you think that didn't apply to him?

The TOG​

 

[BigSodaExposer]

You seem to have concurred as much.

I am an ignorant child. I know nothing and I am nothing. I have just tryed to do the best sometimes with what I had to work with. And usually with disastrous results.

 

[gr8grace3]

hahaha Reba. I dunno I'm trying to make sense of it I really am. The bible says not to ask dumb questions but this is not a dumb question. This is important to my understanding of salvation and trying to teach people how to be saved.

Acts 16:31. It is from Paul. And this is what Paul tells the jailer on how to be saved. If Paul had a different "experience" than this one. He would of told us.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Why are you so adamant that he wasn't? What actual scriptural evidence do you have that Paul was in a way different from other people. Paul himself said that we are saved by grace through faith. Why do you think that didn't apply to him?

The TOG​

Because it didn't. Paul was a teacher and he himself was not married nor had no children. Thus that proves he was different. Else he would not have been allowed to teach would he?

 

[Deborah13]

The Israelites that came out of Egypt provide an interesting look at unbelief and it's power apart from the Unveiling of Jesus Christ in the N.T.

Every last person of Israel over the age of 20 save for 2 people DIED in the desert because of their actions of unbelief inclusive of both Moses and Aaron.

That is a testimony to the reality of our struggles with unbelief apart from Jesus Christ as He has subsequently been revealed to us.

Israel is a picture of flesh men struggling apart from Christ. That doesn't however mean they were not engaging the same God in Christ. The didn't have the WHOLE story and it was not given to them to have in behalf of the world.

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

I wasn't talking about any of the Israelites.

I was talking about people like Pharaoh and Cyrus. Pharaoh, bad dude, didn't listen to God. Cyrus, good guy, listened to God but the word doesn't say he converted. No revelation of the One God.

No he was not repentant, he was blasphemous, Paul had no love for Christianity before Jesus exposed himself to Paul. He did become repentant and great messenger for Christ afterwards though. "he believed that this was his God he had grown up praying to and reading the scriptures" Where does it say that in the bible? If he was already saved then you make it sound like Paul was a prodigal son that just went out away then returned. I don't recall the bible saying that.

Wow, you sure read a lot into what I didn't say. Where did I say that Saul was saved?
Saul, knowing the scriptures, believed, became convinced, that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, and that when Jesus said 'I AM' and that He knew Abraham, that it was true.
Abram became Abraham, Sari became Sarah, Saul became Paul, by faith. And Ruth, she said, "Your people shall be my people and your God shall be my God." by faith.
Just who do you believe the faithful Jews prayed to and read about in the Tanach? :neutral

 

[smaller]

Not to derail the thread but look at John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." So that means no matter how hard I try I cannot physically "snap someone out of" the veil?

The Ways and Means remain in the Hands of God in Christ. Sometimes we can help and sometimes, probably more often, we just get in the way. That's just the way it is. But no, none of us can force any persons hand in these matters.

If they remain locked in unbelief, it is because God Himself has chosen them to remain so.

However would that also mean that the tracts I lay are not in vain? and they will be seeds others will see as the father draws them? Because I can remember things through the years like that when others sowed seeds. They wanted to "wake me up to". But I didnt. Not till God woke me up. And I did make a choice to accept Jesus as lord and savior.

A lot of people try to make formulas out of these matters. I don't think it is WRONG to disburse sharing. Not wrong at all. Paul thanked God however Jesus was preached.

Is it vanity to think we can wake people up then and turn them to God when WE want to? But its not up to us.

Our only obligation is to love our neighbors as ourselves. If I took it personally, i.e. that because somebody didn't believe it was then my fault, I'd go insane.

It's just not my place to deliver salvation. Testify. Yes. Witness. Yes.

Save?

Uh, no. That place is reserved solely to Him. I might convince someone not to do wrong, but that doesn't make me their Savior.

 

[TOG]

Because it didn't. Paul was a teacher and he himself was not married nor had no children. Thus that proves he was different. Else he would not have been allowed to teach would he?

I am a teacher, I am not married and I have no children, just like Paul. Does that mean I'm not saved by grace through faith? Those things have nothing to do with how he was saved.

The TOG​

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Acts 16:31. It is from Paul. And this is what Paul tells the jailer on how to be saved. If Paul had a different "experience" than this one. He would of told us.

Baptist love that verse because all it involves is believing and doesnt include repentance. Or does it?

Lets roll back and look at the context

Acts 16:29-31 "
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

Kneeling down with fear suggest Godly repentance. Kneeling is an act of submission. It could be he sensed a supernatural event in his neck of the woods when God shook the prison at midnight?

James 4:6 says God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble. You can't therefore come to God in the state of a wicked perverted heart. That is the rule for everyone is it not? Yet....Did Paul come to God in this state? No he did not. Therefore he was chosen... Mathew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[gr8grace3]

Not to derail the thread but look at John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." So that means no matter how hard I try I cannot physically "snap someone out of" the veil?

He has drawn ALL men. John 12:32~~New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Mankind is now free to enter the temple of God.

Mark 15:38~~ New American Standard Bible
And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

We present the Gospel. And let the gospel do the work.

 

[tinykitten]

Rather, the divine was revealed to him. He was chosen by God.

Did this make getting saved by faith null and void for him?

Certainly Paul was chosen by Christ to deliver his word to the the gentiles.Saul, (Paul) was the most learned Jew with regard to the law that there was at the time. Christ chose Paul because it would appear to be fitting that the most learned of the Jewish law could deliver the inspiration of Christ and correct those who invoked the law of God so as to refute those who professed the Messiah prophesied had come.

Further, I would challenge you to demonstrate to us, using the Pauline epistles, wherein Paul stated he was not saved by faith. You will have a hard time finding such scripture. So I would suggest you read Galatians. Particularly chapter 2.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

I am a teacher, I am not married and I have no children, just like Paul. Does that mean I'm not saved by grace through faith? Those things have nothing to do with how he was saved.

The TOG​

Has nothing to do with you being saved. But according to scripture a man must be married to one women with children who respect him and take care of his house lest he can't preach.

 

[Kathi]

A faith unlocked by God. God removed the veil, he saw the truth, and changed. Had Paul not been visited by Jesus he would have not changed.

Paul had one of the most dramatic conversions.

 

[smaller]

I wasn't talking about any of the Israelites.

I was talking about people like Pharaoh and Cyrus. Pharaoh, bad dude, didn't listen to God. Cyrus, good guy, listened to God but the word doesn't say he converted. No revelation of the One God.

God undoubtedly hardens and does NOT allow belief. That's why I cited what happened to the Israelites, because it was NOT given to them to see or hear, by GOD.

Wow, you sure read a lot into what I didn't say. Where did I say that Saul was saved?
Saul, knowing the scriptures, believed, became convinced, that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, and that when Jesus said 'I AM' and that He knew Abraham, that it was true.

Saul was a blinded unbeliever participating in killing people. He knew nothing of God in Christ and was in fact a RESISTOR of the Gospel. An ENEMY.

Nothing that Saul had prior to his conversion meant anything. Zealous? Yes! Religious? Yes! Blameless under the law? Yes! By his own admissions ALL DUNG.

He was and remained a blinded slave of Satan until the Day the Light of Jesus Christ STRUCK him down and blinded him.