PC lies about homosexuality+life

[Christ_empowered]

All the "gay" posts make me wonder: whatever happened to being honest about homosexuality? And life in general? Growing up, I read a lot. I don't read quite as much anymore, but I still read a good bit. Seems like older literature, even up to recently (I'll say as late as the 70s, more recently in stuff I've read by older authors), contains truth about homosexuality. You see the loneliness, the promiscuity, the shallowness, the fears of aging. Death in Venice comes to mind.

These days, The Big Lie about homosexuality--that its some sort of warm-and-fuzzy lifestyle, like heterosexuality only with better clothes and hair--seems to have been accepted by everyone. Even some in the church. I know there are long term gay partnerships, but I also know that those tend to be rather "open" and relatively rare, when you look at homosexuals (gay men in particular) as a whole. All the data I've read would indicate that the older literature paints a surprisingly accurate picture of gay life: being alone is the rule, not the exception. Youth is praised, adored, and often exploited, then fades. Relationships are "open," short-lived, and fragile.

I was just thinking about this today, because one of my friends was talking about having to basically de-program her mind of Politically Correct stuff. She's not Christian (yet...), but even she sees now that we're older (we're both 27) that a good bit of what we're taught--not even directly, but rather made to absorb--in school, particularly in college, just isn't true. This realization has made her somewhat bitter and increasingly self-absorbed. Luckily for me, Christ grabbed a hold of me, so this realization drives me into Bible reading and prayer, since I now understand that's the only place to find Truth.

Anyway, I just thought I'd post this. What other lies do you notice our culture (I'm in the US, btw) telling us? I remember when I was at Jesus Camp, they'd say "This isn't 1 year of Christian brainwashing. The world brainwashed you. We're de-programming you." I kinda sorta got it then, but I "get it" much better now. How do you, as a Christian, spot lies coming from our world? How did you/do you de-program? If you have kids, what do you do to keep them in sync with The Truth?

 

[reba]

A powerful statement CE.

 

[Milk-Drops]

It seems that the person who deleted my post didn't understand what I was saying and claimed I was promoting sin. In order to promote something, I would have to claim that I think the position is actually promotable.

The gist of my post was that the OP is flawed because it states that group A exclusively has these traits. Anyone who shows evidence against the assertion of Group A is using PC lies. This is called poisoning the well. Its a setup so no matter how you try and approach the statement, the person asserting that Group A is special can always wave away any REAL problem to their theory.

I then asked the OP to show how GROUP A has these traits exclusively and to back up the statement. I didn't know asking for someone to source their statements was the same as promoting sin.

 

[Hitch]

Our efforts revolve around trying to get the church (meaning those of our Arminian/Pentocastal / Futurist heritage) to take a realistic view of what and how they teach.

Most here have some notion of the sensationalistic methods of Lindsey, TBN, Smith, Van Impe and the whole Hew-Haw Gang. So long as the incredible albeit well documented errors (false prophecies etc) are swept away and/or shifted to the memory hole it is impossible for us to expect any better, that is more ethical, treatment of history and current events from the world. I have no doubt that the world follows the church and what we see today , what you described as 'Politically Correct stuff', results from the church's lack of proper ethics directly related to her own members. I reckon the feelgoodism reflected in the popular refrain 'love the sinner hate the sin' is just the other side of the coin.

 

[jasoncran]

ce those that havent lived in it dont know, not that im an expert on it. but i can see that being the facts. satan always painted the sin nicely.

 

[Mike]

I think there is more agreement than disagreement here.

Here's what I see when I read meatballsub's posts in this thread and the other one that has been locked. (MSB, correct me if I'm wrong)

• Having homosexual tendencies without acting on them is not in itself sinful. It becomes sin when the person acts out on this tendency either in mind (fantasizing about other men) or with body.
• Heterosexuals who do the same outside of marriage between a man and a woman are guilty of sin themselves.
• Romans 1 is talking about all kinds of sexual immorality, homosexual and heterosexual, being willful disobedience to God.

Can we agree with the first two bullets? If a homosexual believes, confesses, repents (and is baptized), is he saved? What if he doesn't go so far as to find an attraction for women, but he does remain pure and doesn't act out on his homosexual inclination? Is he being obedient? I think he is saved and is being obedient, just as a heterosexual with with a sex drive puts a harness on himself in thankful obedience to the Lord whom he has come to know.

As for Romans 1, I have read a number of commentaries. There are some that interpret Paul to be referring to all sexual immoralities and others that feel homosexual acts are specifically isolated on. Both sides have an argument, but I tend to see the former more so than the latter.

Meatballsub, what I didn't like was your assertion that we know more about homosexuals and the inherent sin of acting out on it than Paul did in his time from a "sin" perspective. Sin is sin, because God detests it across time. He never changes.

We have become too PC in society inasmuch as many Christians are afraid to call active homosexuality sinful, unnatural and corrupt, IMO. The gay community has done a good job of bending the way the world thinks of it... too good a job. :gah

Meatballsub, I read your follow-up to your deleted post as a way of clarifying what you thought theLords misunderstood, but be advised. Objecting to the actions taken by the moderators is best handled via PM. I let this one go, because you were feeling misunderstood rather than objecting to something that was understood and disagreeing that it should have been.

 

[Mike S]

It's my opinion that homosexuality is "natural", in that it occurs in nature (all species that reproduce through sex) as a variation of sexual attraction, but is not "normal" in Christian communities because we don't accept it as morally consistent with God's will. Other communities may very well accept it as normal.

Sin is an inherent characteristic of the human condition, and homosexuality is one sin within the range of sins. We need Christ and God's grace to overcome our sins, whatever they are, but ALL sin can be overcome through Christ.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I do agree with your bullet points Mike, sorry I didn't quote you but I didn't want to stretch the page to much. What I was getting at with academia knowing more now, didn't have anything to do with what sins are now and then. No, I was just pointing out a huge misconception of what Paul had actually said. I was also pointing out that trying to fit modern words that have complex meanings into a statement from a preacher years before those words even had meaning or academia even had a base of knowledge to form such constructs. That is all. Like I said, I'm not promoting anything, just clearing up something.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

All the "gay" posts make me wonder: whatever happened to being honest about homosexuality? And life in general? Growing up, I read a lot. I don't read quite as much anymore, but I still read a good bit. Seems like older literature, even up to recently (I'll say as late as the 70s, more recently in stuff I've read by older authors), contains truth about homosexuality. You see the loneliness, the promiscuity, the shallowness, the fears of aging. Death in Venice comes to mind.

These days, The Big Lie about homosexuality--that its some sort of warm-and-fuzzy lifestyle, like heterosexuality only with better clothes and hair--seems to have been accepted by everyone. Even some in the church. I know there are long term gay partnerships, but I also know that those tend to be rather "open" and relatively rare, when you look at homosexuals (gay men in particular) as a whole. All the data I've read would indicate that the older literature paints a surprisingly accurate picture of gay life: being alone is the rule, not the exception. Youth is praised, adored, and often exploited, then fades. Relationships are "open," short-lived, and fragile.

I was just thinking about this today, because one of my friends was talking about having to basically de-program her mind of Politically Correct stuff. She's not Christian (yet...), but even she sees now that we're older (we're both 27) that a good bit of what we're taught--not even directly, but rather made to absorb--in school, particularly in college, just isn't true. This realization has made her somewhat bitter and increasingly self-absorbed. Luckily for me, Christ grabbed a hold of me, so this realization drives me into Bible reading and prayer, since I now understand that's the only place to find Truth.

Anyway, I just thought I'd post this. What other lies do you notice our culture (I'm in the US, btw) telling us? I remember when I was at Jesus Camp, they'd say "This isn't 1 year of Christian brainwashing. The world brainwashed you. We're de-programming you." I kinda sorta got it then, but I "get it" much better now. How do you, as a Christian, spot lies coming from our world? How did you/do you de-program? If you have kids, what do you do to keep them in sync with The Truth?

I spent 2 years online learning all about the New World Order, it branched into every facet of society and I realised just how much the name "Satan" popped up.

Homosexuality is caused by the vast amount of hormones added to our water and food..they cause a sense of confusion in the body, effeminacy and a higher pitched voice, although this does not make one it does make someone confused (how often do you hear that word. Next comes the pressure from society, amazingly this does make one gay. Media keeps using the term confused, someone who has had a reaction to the cocktail of chemicals will see a show with a character struggling with gayness, already attracted to men, at least inquisitively..but not wholesale, and take the leap. It is a combination of factors. But on the whole instigated by then chemicals we are forced [by circumstance] to eat and drink daily and a societal pressure to come out. I think that with treatment it could be dealt with easily, however anyone who speaks out is condemned as homophobic. But this is how all societies are controlled, when subjects become off limit.

I know this post is a mess, I apologise, hard to articulate my thoughts sometimes

 

[221B]

Your thinking is flawed. Before I get this post removed for "promoting sin" (again...), I'm not promoting homosexuality (though, obviously I do not think it's a bad thing), I'm simply saying you have offered no evidence for your statement.
Where have you drawn these conclusions from? Homosexuality occurs in nature, with many animals being gay or bisexual. I assume you know that canadian geese will mate for life? Well this applies to same-sex couples as well. The rule seems to follow with other animals that mate for life too - it being a same-sex coupling doesn't change that. So, it would be logical to assume that promiscuity is in no way naturally inherent to homosexuals, nor are love and loyalty solely heterosexual traits.
On a more human level:
My guardparents (god parents, without the god bit.) are a gay couple. I chose them as my guardparents a year or so ago, because they are our closest family friends. These two very intelligent architects are some of the kindest people I've ever met, and they love each other more than I could ever imagine. They got married a few years ago, but have been together for much longer and are utterly devoted to each other. I chose them as guardparents because if anything did happen to my own parents, not only would I want them to be the ones to look after me, but they're the only people I would trust to raise my younger brother. Them being gay wasn't even a factor - they're good people. Their sexuality doesn't change or effect that.

I'm not promoting sin, I'm saying that until you provide evidence or show how you logically drew this conclusion that the majority of gay relationships are short-lived and sordid (or more so that straight ones), you can't expect people to take you seriously. It's a ridiculous claim.

 

[stovebolts]

Your thinking is flawed. Before I get this post removed for "promoting sin" (again...), I'm not promoting homosexuality (though, obviously I do not think it's a bad thing), I'm simply saying you have offered no evidence for your statement.
Where have you drawn these conclusions from? Homosexuality occurs in nature, with many animals being gay or bisexual. I assume you know that canadian geese will mate for life? Well this applies to same-sex couples as well. The rule seems to follow with other animals that mate for life too - it being a same-sex coupling doesn't change that. So, it would be logical to assume that promiscuity is in no way naturally inherent to homosexuals, nor are love and loyalty solely heterosexual traits.
On a more human level:
My guardparents (god parents, without the god bit.) are a gay couple. I chose them as my guardparents a year or so ago, because they are our closest family friends. These two very intelligent architects are some of the kindest people I've ever met, and they love each other more than I could ever imagine. They got married a few years ago, but have been together for much longer and are utterly devoted to each other. I chose them as guardparents because if anything did happen to my own parents, not only would I want them to be the ones to look after me, but they're the only people I would trust to raise my younger brother. Them being gay wasn't even a factor - they're good people. Their sexuality doesn't change or effect that.

I'm not promoting sin, I'm saying that until you provide evidence or show how you logically drew this conclusion that the majority of gay relationships are short-lived and sordid (or more so that straight ones), you can't expect people to take you seriously. It's a ridiculous claim.

Calm down a bit and please read Marks post above as he has already answered your question. No need arguing your point as we uphold the Bible as our final authority.

Nobody said that homosexuals were bad, evil, mean, cruel, unloving or void of holding deep relationships.

 

[Hitch]

Ol George is rolling over in his grave;

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[Milk-Drops]

Nobody said that homosexuals were bad, evil, mean, cruel, unloving or void of holding deep relationships.

Except Christ_Empowered in the original post here and even outlines his argument in a way that any attempt to point this out is considered a PC lie.

That was actually what I pointed out in my post when it was deleted for " promoting sin". Oh and then there is the post above me where the person is offended that LGBT have a group.

 

[Mike S]

Ol George is rolling over in his grave;

The religious heritage of George Fox University is the Christ-centered, programmed meeting, branch of Quakers. They're the evangelicals, and among their disagreements with the liberal, unprogrammed, branch of Quakers is their official stand on homosexuality, which they oppose. It's interesting the George Fox University has a LGBT group on campus.

I have great respect for Christ-center Quakers, and wonder how well this group is accepted.

 

[Hitch]

The religious heritage of George Fox University is the Christ-centered, programmed meeting, branch of Quakers. They're the evangelicals, and among their disagreements with the liberal, unprogrammed, branch of Quakers is their official stand on homosexuality, which they oppose. It's interesting the George Fox University has a LGBT group on campus.

I have great respect for Christ-center Quakers, and wonder how well this group is accepted.

I dont know . IT came up just today on a FaceBook add. ( We live a bout 30 miles from Newberg, so adds for GF are common)

 

[tim-from-pa]

Shoot!

When I saw the title of this thread starting with "PC lies ...." I was ready to dig into Microsoft! Shucks!

Well, back to my Linux..... Y'all can carry on now.

 

[stovebolts]

Except Christ_Empowered in the original post here and even outlines his argument in a way that any attempt to point this out is considered a PC lie.

That was actually what I pointed out in my post when it was deleted for " promoting sin". Oh and then there is the post above me where the person is offended that LGBT have a group.

Hi MeatballSub,

First off, I didn't hear Christ_Empowered's tone as being condescending, hateful or otherwise disrespectful. Take for example what he posted in his opening statment.

I know there are long term gay partnerships, but I also know that those tend to be rather "open" and relatively rare, when you look at homosexuals (gay men in particular) as a whole.

I took this as a clause to acknowledge that long term relationships do occur, so he wasn't addressing that faucet of homosexuality head on.

What he is addressing is this:

Youth is praised, adored, and often exploited, then fades. Relationships are "open," short-lived, and fragile.

When I read this in relation to homosexuality, where it differs from heterosexual's would be the percentage of homosexuals that purely seek sexual relations without the commitment. I would assume this is from a male perspective and shouldn't come to such a surprise as males are generally more open and driven in regard to spreading their seed than women. So it shouldn't surprise us that a higher percentage of gay males would have a higher count of sexual partners than heterosexuals. Hey, get a bunch of young sexually active guys in a room together and anything can happen.

Does this mean that all gay men are like this? I wouldn't take that stand, and I dont' think anyone is trying to paint all homosexuals with that brush.

 

[JennyThatcher123]

This has been an interesting read.- there are two thing I do not get.

how is "PC" helpful at all. If it is "PC" it is a lie and it attacks most everything except itself. it is killing this country (US) from within. funny how we heard from books, history and enemies that that is how it will happen and yet we just keep on going.

Also the homosexuality thing. this really gets me. I for one don't care if someone has this lifestyle. working on removing this plank I have in my eye, that got my attention, but how do so many Christians know so much on the topic?

 

[Milk-Drops]

This has been an interesting read.- there are two thing I do not get.

how is "PC" helpful at all. If it is "PC" it is a lie and it attacks most everything except itself. it is killing this country (US) from within. funny how we heard from books, history and enemies that that is how it will happen and yet we just keep on going.

Also the homosexuality thing. this really gets me. I for one don't care if someone has this lifestyle. working on removing this plank I have in my eye, that got my attention, but how do so many Christians know so much on the topic?

Politically correct was intended as a form of tact or politeness meant for public speaking and public etiquette. Manly used to replace slurs and real offensive language with words that are either more positive or nuetral.

PC in itself isn't bad, its just overused to an extent. I do think people tend to call PC lies even if there really isn't a lie. I do think society is overly sensitive, but its not PC's fault, its the people themselves really.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Maybe saying "PC" wasn't best choice. I mean, there's really only so much room in the title bar. Maybe "the emerging, post-modern, relativist lies about homosexuality+life."

I know about homosexuality because I was gay. Now that I've stopped being actively gay, the inclinations are decidedly less intense. This lines up with what the Catholic Church says about the sex drive--it is amenable to reason. I'm not Catholic but they've been around for 2,000 years, so I read their stuff on important issues.

Anyway, for me personally, one great thing about being Christian is confronting Truth. First you realize you're a sinner. Then you ask for forgiveness. Then you start the process of learning about God and Christ.

Thing is...God is Truth. And love. The Holy Spirit, in particular, is said to "lead us into all Truth," or something to that effect. So I do think that for Christians should do what they can to confront Truth.

Romans 1 mentions homosexuality along with a cluster of other sins that occur when individuals and societies reject God. Its a mixture of God-rejection and self-worship than ends in destruction.

As a post/ex-gay man, I think its important for people to know from someone who was there that homosexuality isn't fun. I mean, OK--it had its moments. But all sins do.

I singled homosexuality out because I was gay and because I believed some of the lies that were then more common among more "tolerant" people and have now spread to the masses. The lies that said you can be just as happy gay as straight, that you can find someone and settle down (just like straight people), and that all the previous knowledge about homosexuality was one huge "myth" or rooted in "homophobia" or something. I was 17, and I belived it.

False! So false. Then again, so were the lies I was told about all kinds of things. Divorce, drugs, abortion, "mental health," and Christians. One reason I stay Christian now, for instance, is because when I was at my lowest point--burned out, dull eyed, overweight, hated by my entire small town--it was Christians who tried to reach out to me and get me to see that I needed to change and that God loved me.

I didn't "get it" then, I but I "get it" now. Christians follow Christ. We are also led by the Holy Spirit, who leads us to Truth. Part of being a Christian, for me at least, is taking a stand for Truth in a culture that seems hell bent on creating all sorts of self-serving, ultimately destructive lies to justify all sorts of immoral behavior.