perfected forever

[glorydaz]

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn.2:1-2)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn.3:16)

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim.2:4-6)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, . (2 Pt.3:9)not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

:amen

 

[francisdesales]

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn.2:1-2)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn.3:16)

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim.2:4-6)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, . (2 Pt.3:9)not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Xtruth,

Maybe you'll have better luck with this guy, he totally ignores those passages when I post them...

I think he has a 10 verse bible...

 

[Elijah674]

Well?? Try this!

1 Cor. 6
[2] Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

(And what will one use for this Judgement??)

Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

(And Duty is a Working requirement for Salvation!)

[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(James 2:8-26 gives the whole duty of requirement!)

Rev. 20
[12] And I saw the d-e-a-d, small and great, stand before God; [[BY BOOKS ONLY!]] and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(And the only way that the dead can stand is by record books!)

'JESUS WEPT' OK: The point for these ones of today to ponder is your creditability??

(During this time period will be the most solemn time one as seen in the above statement! And it is not until after this judgement period that all tears are wiped away as seen in Rev.'s next chapter. And Jesus wept over Jerusalem, and you can be sure that this verse will be repeated here by us! Eccl. 3:15)

Eze. 33
[1] Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[2] Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: (IF?)
[3] If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
[4] Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, [and taketh not warning;] if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

[5] [He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning;] his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

(It Does not say ONLY BELIV'ISE!)

[6] But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

[7] So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

(but who does huh? Rom. 8:14 + Matt. 10:20-25)

[8] When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
[9] Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

(OK: The watchman is REQUIRED to do what? Isa. 59 Compare Luke 12:47-48's Fact!)

[1] Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
[2] But [your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.] + Isa. 58

[1] Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
[2] Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

And these she/shim's ones of today do what?? Read their trash! Thread after thread of mostly nonsense! All they know how to do is just attack the ones following Christ's REQUIRED TRUTH + paste up the Jer. 17:5 junk/food for present day food?? What is New God asks? Eccl. 3:15 again & again!


Rev. 21
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

OK: This is for all of you professed 'teachers' of today. The above verses are fairly clear to 'some' ones? It is easy to see on all of these forums where you think that you are at 'spiritually'! Hardly ever does one say that 'i' think that this is the way that it will be, but.. this is the way that it is!

So ask yourself when & if you get to heavens Judgement & take part of going over all the ACCURATE Record Books and you find the Present Truth of your Requirement for [Today while Probation Lingers on] (Gen. 6:3)
and then you run upon the name of lets just say, a wife or husband? or a daughter or son? All or any of the ones that today you claim to Love, and most importantly is the profession of Loving Christ! And the point is.. you will see the REASON recorded accurately why this one or ones are not there. And lets just understand that the reason could very well be your 'above' fault for why they will be eternally lost! Sure, first off you had to repent to get in heaven yourself! So, after that,what about your responsibility???

Now comes the time/frame of today & our REQUIREMENTS... All hell is breaking loose and escalating as we speak! Surely Matt. 7 Broadway ones are being made up + the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ONES of Rev. 17:1-5! And [IF] we do finally make it to heaven we will see that our she/him garbage stuff was required to be stopped somewhere in this time period! (Numbers 16:2-3's garbage preaching)
Our gut/less wonder postings changed into [TOUGH AGAPE MATURE LOVE!] Or else we just flat out will not make it! Along with Rev. 12:17 VIRGIN REQUIRED TRUTH!

(Heb, 12:4-8's Partakers [or] the sin of omission recanting 'chastisement' of hard required duties that we neglect! See John 12:42-43 for one of the reasons why)

--Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

There are "books" and there is the Lamb's book of life.

Those written in the Lamb's book have been born again unto life eternal.
They will not be blotted out of the book, but will be given rewards according to their "work" while on this earth.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Those born again believers will stand before Christ...if their works are unworthy, the works will be burned up, but they themselves will be saved. It's a time of rewards for those written in the Lamb's Book of LIFE.

It's the blood that God sees...the death angel will pass over.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Elijah674]

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 wrote:
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Hi, that mean that the teacher or whatever one that is doing the soul working work has no bearing on what the convert later in life does. Read the whole passage!

--Elijah

 

[mondar]

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn.2:1-2)

The term "propitiation" is the gift that turns away wrath. If Christs shed blood was a propitiation, there can be no wrath. If you say that Christs shed blood turned away the wrath of every single person that ever lived, that is a doctrine called "universalism." Other such verses that could be used to signify universalism that use the term "world" are John 4:41-42 and 1 John 4:14---Christ is the savior of the world.... John 1:29.... He takes away the sin of the world.....
Paul uses the term in this way in 2 Cor 5:19 when he says that the world is reconciled to Christ....
If in these verses the "world" means every single person, then every single person will go to heaven.

On the other hand, the term "world" can refer to all kinds of people. Especially in John's writings, where he speaks of Jews and Gentiles, he is using the term "world" to refer to all kinds of people, including both Jew and Gentile. In other words, all kinds of people will have Christ as savior, have reconciliation, and have Christs shed blood as a propitiation. So then, 1 John 2:2 could be read that Christ's blood is the gift that turns away Gods wrath (propitiation) for our sins (the reader and John), but not only ours, but the sins of all kinds of people including both Jew and Gentile (whole world).

The bottom line is the only two possibilities are universalism, or seeing this verse with regard to the elect.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn.3:16)

I have long heard some repeat the words "whosoever" like it is an indefinite group. This is simply grammatically impossible. The greek construction is pas + participle. This results in a concept of a definite group. The definite group is all the believing ones, the elect. This believing group will not perish and will have everlasting life. The Greek grammar of the verse simply cannot be stretched to say that anyone can believe.

Nevertheless, many will ignore this fact and continue to use this verse out of its grammatical context.

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim.2:4-6)

If one reads the context of this verse, you can see how the term "pas" (all) is not being used of every single individual that ever lived.
Notice in verse 1 the word occurs twice. "First of all" and later to pray for "all." Do you go down through the phone book and pray for every name? Or do you pray for all kinds of people and problems. Notice in the context how the author begins to define the term all as catagories of people. In verse 2 he names kings and rulers. Again, this is a misuse of the context.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, . (2 Pt.3:9)not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

I have also demonstrated elsewhere that this verse is being misused also. The word "us-ward" or in some manuscripts it is "you-ward" refers to believers only. I dont have time to finish this, but have written on this verse else where. Got to go. This verse speaks of Gods patience with those ordained to believe. Got to run.

 

[glorydaz]

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 wrote:
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Hi, that mean that the teacher or whatever one that is doing the soul working work has no bearing on what the convert later in life does. Read the whole passage!

--Elijah

I have read the whole passage....I believe it is speaking of all the works in a believer's life. We all plant, we all water, we all share the gospel with the unsaved. We are never held responsible for another man's conversion or his sins...irregardless of what he does later in life. The passage, therefore, refers to our own works and our own rewards when we stand before the judgment seat of Christ. All our deeds will be refined by fire...just as gold and silver are. Those unprofitable deeds will be burned up, and we will be rewarded for what remains.

 

[glorydaz]

Universalism means all are saved.

Jesus dying for the sins of the whole world doesn't mean all will appropriate the grace, forgiveness, or salvation offered to all men through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is not only through the grace of God offered to all men, but through faith...which is where salvation comes in.

 

[mondar]

Salvation is not by faith and grace, but by grace alone.

Justification is by faith alone, but since our faith has its source not only the the word of God, but also in the regenerating act of the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit as an act of grace is the cause of our own faith. Thus the grace of God is the cause of both salvation and our faith.

If Jesus died in the place of the whole world, then the whole world is saved. That is universalism. Otherwise, God punishes the sin of the unbeliever in Christ, and then he again punishes the same identical sin in the person in hell.

Salvation is not by faith and grace, but by grace alone.

Those who say that evil flesh can generate faith must espouse human effort for salvation in some way, and thus deny salvation by grace alone.

Faith is pleasing to God....
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him;
And unregenerate mankind cannot please God...
Romans 8: 8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Thus it is obvious that man cannot generate his own faith. It is the act of Gods grace in sending both the word of God, and the act of the Holy Spirit in regeneration.

 

[Elijah674]

I have read the whole passage....I believe it is speaking of all the works in a believer's life. We all plant, we all water, we all share the gospel with the unsaved. We are never held responsible for another man's conversion or his sins...irregardless of what he does later in life. The passage, therefore, refers to our own works and our own rewards when we stand before the judgment seat of Christ. All our deeds will be refined by fire...just as gold and silver are. Those unprofitable deeds will be burned up, and we will be rewarded for what remains.

Hi kid'o, lets put it out in context & walk me throught it? ;)

1Cor.3
[1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?[/u]

Paul is talking pretty straight to me perhaps, huh?
OK: but this is the context as 'i' see it in the 'spiritual' sense!

[4] For while [one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?]

[5] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

[6] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
[7] So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

OK: Does that seems clear to me so far?? But now I see the context shift to the REQUIRED WORK of the Ministers [SUBJECTS] as I see it.

[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

[9] For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

[10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
(Now I agree with this fact + the WARNING! But pay attention that IF I do as required, and there are ones who still fail to MATURE & get off of the milk as these above ones, how does that effect my labor of love for them?? Lets see if I can??

[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(Acts 4:12 FACT that we agree on I think?)

[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

(that was the above Paul + worker.. or you or myself!)

[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(OK: Surely I agree that this includes both the ones of Matt. 28:20 required WORK as the minister + the confessed convert!)

[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

(the reward is not the point with any Born minister 'i' do not think? but the fact is still the fact that one will be rewarded if the condition is met!)

[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

(OK: for me this goes righ along with Eze. 33:6-9) And the whole chapter has the truth for these ones on this 'milk' today as I see it!

--Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

Elijah,

Notice how many times "any man" and "every man" is used in this portion of scripture. We are all members of the body of Christ...we are all called to peach the Gospel. Not just certain ministers or only the elders or only the teachers. We all plant and water. We all have gifts to edify the body and we are all equal in God's sight. Paul referred to himself as a servant for a reason...we have no church heirarchy...no man is better than another. Some are more mature, but some are false teachers, and some are filled with pride while claiming to be higher in rank than the other believers, but that is not scriptural. Paul is not talking about a certain class of "minister" as we're all called to preach the Gospel.

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah,

Notice how many times "any man" and "every man" is used in this portion of scripture. We are all members of the body of Christ...we are all called to peach the Gospel. Not just certain ministers or only the elders or only the teachers. We all plant and water. We all have gifts to edify the body and we are all equal in God's sight. Paul referred to himself as a servant for a reason...we have no church heirarchy...no man is better than another. Some are more mature, but some are false teachers, and some are filled with pride while claiming to be higher in rank than the other believers, but that is not scriptural. Paul is not talking about a certain class of "minister" as we're all called to preach the Gospel.

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

????? That was my 1/2 point!

 

[glorydaz]

Elijah,

Notice how many times "any man" and "every man" is used in this portion of scripture. We are all members of the body of Christ...we are all called to peach the Gospel. Not just certain ministers or only the elders or only the teachers. We all plant and water. We all have gifts to edify the body and we are all equal in God's sight. Paul referred to himself as a servant for a reason...we have no church heirarchy...no man is better than another. Some are more mature, but some are false teachers, and some are filled with pride while claiming to be higher in rank than the other believers, but that is not scriptural. Paul is not talking about a certain class of "minister" as we're all called to preach the Gospel.

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

????? That was my 1/2 point!

LOL Then what was your whole point?

 

[savedbygrace57]

It is because the death or offering of Christ has perfected forever [before God] all them He died for, it too, secures unto them gospel faith and obedience..





Jesus says of His sheep, whom He died for, that they shall hear his voice, follow him, and gives them eternal life..



Jn 10:



15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.




27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:



28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


All of this is ensured for each sheep for whom Christ died because they have been perfected forever by His death for them..

 

[mutzrein]

Good point - He died for His sheep - which of course excludes the goats.

And there's no 'buts' about it ;)

 

[savedbygrace57]

Good point - He died for His sheep - which of course excludes the goats.

And there's no 'buts' about it ;)

So then you dont believe that Jesus christ died for every individual in the world i assume ? And do you believe that all the sheep whom christ died for, even before they are born, have been perfected forever before God ?

Remember Jesus knew His sheep before they were born or born again..

 

[Elijah674]

Saved][IN SIN] & not [FROM SIN] as [IN CHRIST] of Rom. 8:1 finds them in Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression IN PRESUMPTION in their [MATURE END] James 1:15. The Striving of the Holy Ghost just finds them in solid satanic concrete in time! Gen. 6:3. They are un/reachable as we are seeing by world reports of today!

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

Saved][IN SIN] & not [FROM SIN] as [IN CHRIST] of Rom. 8:1 finds them in Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression IN PRESUMPTION in their [MATURE END] James 1:15. The Striving of the Holy Ghost just finds them in solid satanic concrete in time! Gen. 6:3. They are un/reachable as we are seeing by world reports of today!

--Elijah

You are way off topic..

 

[Elijah674]

Saved][IN SIN] & not [FROM SIN] as [IN CHRIST] of Rom. 8:1 finds them in Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression IN PRESUMPTION in their [MATURE END] James 1:15. The Striving of the Holy Ghost just finds them in solid satanic concrete in time! Gen. 6:3. They are un/reachable as we are seeing by world reports of today!

--Elijah

You are way off topic..

THINK!
PREFECTED FOREVER
There are [only two] class of Gods creation, both will be MATURE + PERFECTED FOREVER in one direction or the other! Nah. 1:9 finds that sin will not arise a second time & Obad. 1:16 finds out why that is!
--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

elijah:

THINK!
PREFECTED FOREVER

Yes, Those whom Jesus christ died for are perfected forever before God..heb 10:

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

as well as sanctified forever vs 10

10By the which will we are sanctified, made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.