Peter, Paul and James

[Anto9us2]

DISTURBING is an understatement of what I felt when reading a blurb about the alabaster jar book last night. It was more like a brief but intense wave of demonic force.

FHG, I am not big on - not good with - genealogy, which seemed to be instrumental in your deciding that Mary M. and Mary of Bethany were different people.

Whether they were or not is way less important to me now than this heresy that the alabaster jar book seems to put forth.

Wolves, indeed, have come in.

Of course, some believe there was more than one occurrence of a woman annointing Jesus

This is not my first rodeo of trying to get to the bottom of this in a thread.

I have gone far away from my OP about James and Peter and Paul.

 

[for_his_glory]

You are not that far away from your OP as it went to that of what you said about James being a half brother to Jesus by an earlier marriage of Joseph. That's how we got into the discussion of the different Mary's.

Actually Jesus had two disciples named James as one was the son of Zebedee and the other James the son of Alphaeus. All in all their are six different James mentioned in the NT. It's a very complexed study that I have never took the time to study all six. The James we are discussing was a half brother to Jesus only because Joseph was not the natural father of Jesus.

Have some yard work to do today since it will probably be the last warm day before winter hits so will be back later as even I am learning more than I ever knew with this discussion.

 

[for_his_glory]

DISTURBING is an understatement of what I felt when reading a blurb about the alabaster jar book last night. It was more like a brief but intense wave of demonic force.

FHG, I am not big on - not good with - genealogy, which seemed to be instrumental in your deciding that Mary M. and Mary of Bethany were different people.

Whether they were or not is way less important to me now than this heresy that the alabaster jar book seems to put forth.

Wolves, indeed, have come in.

Of course, some believe there was more than one occurrence of a woman annointing Jesus

This is not my first rodeo of trying to get to the bottom of this in a thread.

I have gone far away from my OP about James and Peter and Paul.

I love doing family Genealogies as I did all sides of my family with one side going back to the 1400's. Genealogy is also important to the different people in the Bible to know who is who and where they came from.

 

[Walpole]

Are you not "the" son of your mother if she has other sons younger than you, yet being the first son in the numbering of sons? If you don't want to believe what is written in Mark 6:3 then that is your choice as it is clearly written.

John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. (could it be Jesus was talking about Mary the mother of John, known also by the name of Salome the mother of John, sister of Mary of Nazareth

Jesus said woman behold your son (Mary the mother of Jesus) then Jesus said to John behold your mother (Mary the mother of James and John the wife of Zebedee). And from that hour John brought his own mother into his house.

Three mothers named Mary. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph, his mother's sister Mary, also known as Salome the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John as John was the beloved disciple of Jesus. Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the crucifixtion of Jesus. When Jesus told John to behold his mother means John's mother as John brought her into his house.


Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. (James and John)

Matthew 13:55, 56; Mark 16:1 and Luke 24:10 confirm that of Mark 6:3. Scripture says what it says as no one can change that which has already been written no matter how they try.

You are A son of your mother's if she has multiple children. You are THE son of your mother if she doesn't.

I do believe the Scripture and no where in it does it mention or even hint at Mary's subsequent maternities.

 

[for_his_glory]

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Jesus had four half brothers, James, Joses(Joseph), Juda and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers an sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Three mothers named Mary. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph, his mother's sister Mary, also known as Salome the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John as John was the beloved disciple of Jesus. Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the Crucifixion of Jesus. When Jesus told John to behold his mother means John's mother as John brought her into his house.

Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

Three mothers named Mary:
1. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph and the mother of James and Joses.
2. Jesus mother's sister named Mary also known as Salome the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John (two of the twelve disciples). Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias.
3. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the Crucifixion of Jesus.

John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus looked down from the cross and saw His own mother named Mary and standing by her was His disciple John. Jesus then told John to look at his own mother whose name was Mary the wife of Zebedee. From that hour John took his mother to his own home.

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Conclusion:

Mary Magdalene (called Magdalene because she was born in Magdala, Israel) and Mary named Marie of Bethany (born at Al-Eizariya name for modern Bethany) are not the same person.

Side note: Marie and Mary are the same name. My Great Aunt's name was Marie when she lived in Romania, but when she came to America it was pronounced Mary.

According to the Genealogy of Eucharis and Cyrus who was the King of the Benjamite tribe in Magdala and a descendant from the House of David are the parents of Mary Magdalene, Mary/Marie of Bethany, Martha and Lazarus.

Mary Magdalene was born in Magdala hence the surname Magdalene, Mary/Marie of Bethany was born in Al-Eizariya later known as Bethany, Martha born in Palestine and was the mother of Mark and John who was a widow, Lazarus was born in Al-Eizariya (Bethany).

This was Mary Magdalene, daughter of Eucharis and Cyrus, a sister to Mary of Bethany, Martha and Lazarus. The other Mary is described in Mark 16:1 as Mary the mother of James and Salome and the wife of Zebedee.

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils.

This is the same Mary who had the alabaster jar filled with perfume who poured the perfume over the head of Jesus and also washed and kissed the feet of Jesus, Matthew 26:6-9; Luke 7:36-50; John 12:1-3.

Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany, Martha and Lazarus parents were Cyrus and Eucharis from Magdala along the sea of Galilee where Cyrus was the King over the tribe of Benjamin being a royal descendant of the house of David. They had a castle there called Magdalon. A family of wealth and after Cyrus died the children inherited vast riches and possessions. Lazarus took to the military life, Martha ruled her possessions with great discretion and was a model of virtue and propriety sort of addicted to worldly cares. Probably was she fussed so much when Jesus came to their house. Mary Magdalene involved herself with luxurious pleasures, which is why she had an alabaster jar filled with fragrances she poured out on Jesus head and washed His feet. She had an extravagant life style and was known through all the country as "The Sinner" and very promiscuous. The seven demons which posse her that Jesus cast out of her where the seven deadly sins: gluttony, fornication, covetousness, anger, spiritual sluggishness, ego

 

[for_his_glory]

James the son on Mary the wife of Zebedee and James the son of Alphaeus who is also the father of Matthew are the two James that Jesus called to be two of His twelve disciples, Matthew 10:2-4.

The other James was a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ who was the half brother of Jesus as his mother was Mary and his father was Joseph. The reason he was only a half brother is obvious because of the Immaculate Conception as Joseph was not Jesus biological father.

James who was called the just and also the "pillar" in Galatians 2:9 is said to be the one who wrote the book of James before he died a martyr's death between 62-69 AD. Even though he was not one of the original 12 disciples he was a disciple of Christ and was an early leader of the Jerusalem Church meeting with Peter an Paul at times, Acts 12:17; 15:13-19.

It's believed that James wrote the book of James between 50AD and 60AD as James the son of Zebedee died in 44AD and James the son of Alphaeus died around 62AD. James 1:1 he does not address himself as an Apostle of Christ or even the brother of Christ, but addresses himself as a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. He writes more about Christian ethics than Christian theology. His theme in the book of James is more about the outworking of faith, the external evidence of internal conversion.

What is peculiar about James especially being the half brother of Jesus did not believe He was the Messiah come until he was gathered with the others in the upper room praying when Jesus after He was resurrected appeared before all of them.

 

[Randy]

In the early chapters of Acts, Peter is pretty much Top Dog.

Later, this seems to fade.
Paul rebukes Peter at Antioch, for when "certain of James" arrived, Peter drew back from eating with Gentiles. James seems to be at least the Emcee, if not "in charge" at the Acts 15 council.

At one point, Paul seemed to say "I am apostle to the uncircumcised, as Peter is to the circumcision"

James, as best I can figure, is a half-brother to Jesus by an earlier marriage of Joseph (I think this of Jude and the other brothers and sisters of Jesus), and James was not originally a disciple, how he got to be one of the PILLARS is beyond me.

The other James, brother of John of Zebedee, was one of the early martyrs.

Peter, we know was in both Jerusalem and Antioch - was he also later in Rome (

Peter addressed the acts 15 counsel with the truth.

After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

James left a few rules, approved by the Holy Spirit, taking out all the other baggage as a requirement to salvation. (lets not make it difficult for the gentiles turning to God)
James hinted they could learn these later (For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”)

The problem with James statement is the synagogues were run by those who rejected Gods purpose for them (salvation by the forgiveness of sins found in Christ Jesus) Those that proclaimed faith in Jesus would not be welcomed there.

Clearly Judaism and more so Rabbinic Judaism has been cast adrift and is rudderless. They do not know God and they rule by their own authority. They claim a uniqueness that no longer exists as they believe in this age. "The Jewish people"

Those God calls his children as in the children of God.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Most, if not any, can answer ,all he questions, Paul asked with a yes. But even if one could apart from Jesus they are cast adrift and rudderless.
Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelite's? So am I. Are they Abraham's descendants? So am I.

James nor Peter admitted to authorizing the gentiles need to be circumcised and obey the law of Moses for salvation.

We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said

Personally I believe Jesus had "younger" brothers and sisters. The scripture only states Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. It would have been lawful for Mary to have relations with her husband afterward and have other children.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

How interesting, most of the disciples were family members of each other. Jesus literal family must have all been saved as well. Nowadays its hard to get a family member to join in the same faith. Back in Jesus time, there was more unity.