Philadelphia Catholic Clergy Exposed

[thessalonian]

Well if married priests is going to solve the problems, the data about Protestant Ministers doen't indicate it:

MINISTERS

The data on the Protestant clergy tend to focus on sexual abuse in general, not on sexual abuse of children. Thus, strict comparisons cannot always be made. But there are some comparative data available on the subject of child sexual molestation, and what has been reported is quite revealing.

In a 1984 survey, 38.6 percent of ministers reported sexual contact with a church member, and 76 percent knew of another minister who had had sexual intercourse with a parishioner.[xiii] In the same year, a Fuller Seminary survey of 1,200 ministers found that 20 percent of theologically “conservative†pastors admitted to some sexual contact outside of marriage with a church member. The figure jumped to over 40 percent for “moderatesâ€Â; 50 percent of “liberal†pastors confessed to similar behavior.[xiv]

In 1990, in a study by the Park Ridge Center for the Study of Health, Faith and Ethics in Chicago, it was learned that 10 percent of ministers said they had had an affair with a parishioner and about 25 percent admitted some sexual contact with a parishioner.[xv] Two years later, a survey by Leadership magazine found that 37 percent of ministers confessed to having been involved in “inappropriate sexual behavior†with a parishioner.[xvi]

In a 1993 survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care, 14 percent of Southern Baptist ministers said they had engaged in “inappropriate sexual behavior,†and 70 percent said they knew a minister who had had such contact with a parishioner.[xvii] Joe E. Trull is co-author of the 1993 book, Ministerial Ethics, and he found that “from 30 to 35 percent of ministers of all denominations admit to having sexual relationshipsâ€â€from inappropriate touching to sexual intercourseâ€â€outside of marriage.â€Â[xviii]

According to a 2000 report to the Baptist General Convention in Texas, “The incidence of sexual abuse by clergy has reached ‘horrific proportions.’†It noted that in studies done in the 1980s, 12 percent of ministers had “engaged in sexual intercourse with members†and nearly 40 percent had “acknowledged sexually inappropriate behavior.†The report concluded that “The disturbing aspect of all research is that the rate of incidence for clergy exceeds the client-professional rate for physicians and psychologists.â€Â[xix] Regarding pornography and sexual addiction, a national survey disclosed that about 20 percent of all ministers are involved in the behavior.[xx]

In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.â€Â[xxi]

Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.[xxii]

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/ ... ontext.htm

Souunds like there are plenty of problems there as well.

 

[Lewis]

They can marry. They are to discern whether they have a call to celibacy first, of which Christ says "to some this has been given". No one tells them "you have a call to celibacy you can't get married". They discern it for themselves with the help of a spiritual director. Do you have some problem with men discerning whether they do have Christ's call to celibacy? No one tells them they have to become priests. You guys speak without knowing.

Thess, my brother the Catholic church encourages celibacy, and to say that they don't, would be a lie. And a lot of their dicernment is wrong, because look at what a lot of these priest have done. And as I already said before, it is a gift from God, when you can be celibate with no problems.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

This topic should be treated as if it was a live nuke. God does not trifle with the abusers of Innocents.

It is such a deeply disturbing and sorrowful topic that prayers should be offered before even speaking of it, and after. But there is nearly none who fear God anymore.

Behind this discussion are the broken and wounded souls who often as not reject God and perpetuate abuse. THEIR BLOOD CRIES OUT FROM THE GROUND TO GOD.

Priests, pastors, teachers, mothers, fathers, siblings- whoever abuses another human being sexually is detestable, and will answer to God. Those who seek forgiveness will gain such only through fire- but God's mercy is boundless and without end.
Only He could lift the millstone from their neck.

Then we have those who make humor of such evil, and use such matters as fodder in their efforts to demean one another.
Such are as low, if not lower, than the abusers.
I suspect for them there will be no forgiveness in this life or the life to come.

Many of such believe they are just fine in the eyes of the Lord because of their professed belief in God- yet their lives prove elsewise.

Be careful when you think you stand, lest you fall.

There will come a day of reckoning. Do not take this warning lightly.

I dare not even sign my name, only pray, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy.

 

[thessalonian]

Amen OC

 

[Gary]

Nice attempt at a snow job Thessalonian. What the writer was trying to red herring was the following report. He knew the report would be damning..... so why not try and red-herring the issue?

Key Figures From a Catholic Abuse Survey

By the Associated Press
February 27, 2004

The following are key statistics from a survey conducted by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice on molestation of minors by U.S. Roman Catholic clergy. The study was conducted for the National Review Board, a panel of prominent lay Catholics, which released its findings on Friday.


U.S. clerics accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392.
That's about 4 percent of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years.

Individuals making accusations: 10,667.

Victims' ages: 5.8 percent under 7; 16 percent ages 8-10; 50.9 percent ages 11-14; 27.3 percent ages 15-17.

Victims' gender: 81 percent male, 19 percent female.

Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4 percent said all incidents occurred within one year; 21.8 percent said one to two years; 28 percent, two to four years; 11.8 percent longer

Victims per priest: 55.7 percent with one victim; 26.9 percent with two or three; 13.9 percent with four to nine; 3.5 percent with 10 or more (these 149 priests caused 27 percent of allegations).

Abuse locations: 40.9 percent at priest's residence; 16.3 percent in church; 42.8 percent elsewhere.

Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does not include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses after research was concluded).

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http://www.beliefnet.com/story/141/story_14121.html

What is worse than all of this is the RCC cover-up that has gone on for decades.

.

 

[thessalonian]

They can marry. They are to discern whether they have a call to celibacy first, of which Christ says "to some this has been given". No one tells them "you have a call to celibacy you can't get married". They discern it for themselves with the help of a spiritual director. Do you have some problem with men discerning whether they do have Christ's call to celibacy? No one tells them they have to become priests. You guys speak without knowing.

Thess, my brother the Catholic church encourages celibacy, and to say that they don't, would be a lie. And a lot of their dicernment is wrong, because look at what a lot of these priest have done. And as I already said before, it is a gift from God, when you can be celibate with no problems.

I thought you said yesterday that we needed to be saved. By the way did you fix that post where you cut and pasted from CARM. Is there some problem with encouraging celibacy. The Catholic Church also encourages marriage. Should we encourage neither? You don't even know what the discernment process is. How do you know it is wrong. My impression is that it is good (I've been through some of it myself, and know a couple of the priests who assist those in seminary, as well as a deacon who assists deacons). A nephew I am also closed to has discerned for the priesthood. My impression is that it is not wrong but that some have not followed it. For one thing 40 years ago the vatican said those with homosexual tendancies should not be preists. This has been ignored. It appears Benedict is going to clamp down on it. D46 says celibacy is unnnatural. So perhaps you should post him challenging his belief that none should be celibate.

Blessings

 

[Lewis]

D46 says celibacy is unnnatural. So perhaps you should post him challenging his belief that none should be celibate.

It is unnatural, that is why God has to step in and give you a celibic nature as a gift, and then you won't suffer from raging harmones.

 

[thessalonian]

D46 says celibacy is unnnatural. So perhaps you should post him challenging his belief that none should be celibate.

It is unnatural, that is why God has to step in and give you a celibic nature as a gift, and then you won't suffer from raging harmones.

What's a harmones? :-D Most certanily the discernment process should and I am quite certain does include discerning whether one burns with lust. Those with overly lustful tendancies should not be priests either.


I do agree that it is a gift from God and in our fallen nature we need God's grace to be celibate. However, God did not create man in an unatural state. There was no fallen nature and nothing unnatural before the fall. Thus I cannot agree that it is unnatural. God created Adam in a natural state. He merely did not want him to be alone.

Blessings

 

[D46]

Mt 19:12 (KJV) For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

D46 says, oh no Jesus this is wrong. It's against the nature of man not to marry. Jesus doesn't no human nature?

You should have went on with verse 12. Seems this is what he was speaking of.

ou think marriage is the solution to molestation problems? What, there is no homosexuality or pedophilia among married men? Your kidding I hope. No rape among married men? Are you this foolish?

I made no indication that marriage solves all man's problems neither did I in any pretense attempt to indicated such. It obviously does not. You're jerking things out of context as you do the scriptures.

So do you not agree with D46 that some do have a call to celibacy and Jesus knows the nature of man better than D46? Was Christ saying that some men are to be called to an unnatural state?

The Apostle Paul was the only one I've ever read about or have ever known in this current age that had this particular gift of celibacy. There may be a handful of priest or anyone else, that does have this "gift". Most do not and when forced into this situation it does nothing but foster problems as the headlines on TV, magazines and newspapers worldwide indicate about this habitation of perverts that dwell within the RCC. Why so much of it in the RCC? Because, it's unnatural...bottom line or God would have created neutered beings. Or, perhaps an Adam and Steve or Mary and Sherry as some would like. The Catholic priesthood is a repository of perverts. Anyone who follows the idolatrous practices of Catholicism is subject and open to every demon to fill them with licentious thoughts and behaviors unbridled. Rome had the greatest amount of prostitues that paid taxes to the "church" and there were at one time thousands of them in Rome. Why- because Rome had the most celebates.

It is unnatural, that is why God has to step in and give you a celibic nature as a gift, and then you won't suffer from raging harmones.

Lewis, my friend, don't you see that trying to debate with some of these guys is like trying to nail jello to a tree or getting a rooster to pull a freight train. "It ain't going to happen". They're right on every count on every subject be it Scripture or otherwise.

BTW-I'd put no more credence in the Christian Science Monitor than I would in Origen's Hexapala.

 

[thessalonian]

Lewis, my friend, don't you see that trying to debate with some of these guys is like trying to nail jello to a tree or getting a rooster to pull a freight train. "It ain't going to happen". They're right on every count on every subject be it Scripture or otherwise.

It could be stated, wrong on every count and so was the Early Church which taught what the Catholic Church teaches. Of course, D46 won't tell us where he is wrong. I haven't seen such a post from him. So it seems he is right on every count as well. Such is the hypocrisy on this board.


Come to think of it, I've not seen anyone on this board admit error so perhaps a blanket condemnation of character on all by Mr. D46 is forthcoming. Of course he will be right after the condemnation.

 

[Lewis]

This still does not mean that Paul was not married at one time.

Question: "What does the Bible say about a Christian staying single?â€Â



Answer: Paul tells us in 1Corinthians 7:7-8, “I wish everyone could get along without marrying, just as I do. But we are not all the same. God gives some the gift of marriage, and to others he gives the gift of singleness. Now I say to those who aren't married, and to widows – it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am.†Notice that he says some have the gift of singleness, and some the gift of marriage. Although it seems that nearly everyone marries, it is not necessarily God's will for them. Paul, for example, did not have to worry about the extra problems and stresses that come with marriage and/or family. He devoted his entire life to spreading the Word of God. He could not have been such a useful messenger to all of us if he had been married.



On the other hand, some people do better as a team, serving God as a couple and a family. Both kinds of people are equally important. It is not a sin to remain single, even your entire life. The most important things in life are not in finding a mate and having children, but in serving God. We should educate ourselves on the Word of God by reading our Bibles and praying, forming that personal relationship that is so necessary for our salvation (John 17:3). If we ask God to reveal Himself to us, He will respond (Matthew 7:7), and if we ask Him to use us to fulfill His good works, He will do that, too. “Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is,†(Romans 12:2).

 

[SputnikBoy]

Getting back on topic ...have any of you ever stopped to consider why an otherwise decent person becomes caught up in this kind of aberration? Well I have and, while I don't have the answers, I DO know that such people are not monsters. There is an evil 'something' that overwhelms certain people and, once they give in to a weakness such as is pedophilia, it becomes habit-forming. The wrong then becomes easier to continue. All the while, however, the specific individual is caught up in a tangled web, being fully aware of their wrongs, even perhaps wanting to stop the wrongs and be helped by someone, but also in dire fear of the consequences of their actions once caught.

If we were to spend more time trying to understand the problem than in ignorantly condemning the person, I believe we could make good progress in this particular area. So far I've heard NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE from ANYONE on this forum in regard to this issue. I'm all yours, fellow Christians.

 

[Lewis]

JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[thessalonian]

This still does not mean that Paul was not married at one time.

Question: "What does the Bible say about a Christian staying single?â€Â



Answer: Paul tells us in 1Corinthians 7:7-8, “I wish everyone could get along without marrying, just as I do. But we are not all the same. God gives some the gift of marriage, and to others he gives the gift of singleness. Now I say to those who aren't married, and to widows – it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am.†Notice that he says some have the gift of singleness, and some the gift of marriage. Although it seems that nearly everyone marries, it is not necessarily God's will for them. Paul, for example, did not have to worry about the extra problems and stresses that come with marriage and/or family. He devoted his entire life to spreading the Word of God. He could not have been such a useful messenger to all of us if he had been married.



On the other hand, some people do better as a team, serving God as a couple and a family. Both kinds of people are equally important. It is not a sin to remain single, even your entire life. The most important things in life are not in finding a mate and having children, but in serving God. We should educate ourselves on the Word of God by reading our Bibles and praying, forming that personal relationship that is so necessary for our salvation (John 17:3). If we ask God to reveal Himself to us, He will respond (Matthew 7:7), and if we ask Him to use us to fulfill His good works, He will do that, too. “Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is,†(Romans 12:2).

Lewis I pretty much agree with this.

I do think you better start reffing your cut and pastes however. Especially when it is copyrited.

Blessings