Polygyny and the Bible

[Free]

The bible is clear man was created in Gods image. Adam alone. Eve came later from Adams rib.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

Clearly both Adam and Eve were created in God's image. The method of creation is irrelevant.

Sexism is just a liberal slander that femists use to distract and change Gods law.

Incorrect. From Mirram-Webster:

: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women

This has nothing to do with changing God's law and everything to do with your inadequate and improper understanding of Scripture. Early Christianity properly elevated women based on the clear teachings of Scripture, and yet you put them down and call it Christian.

 

[theLords]

The bible is clear man was created in Gods image. Adam alone. Eve came later from Adams rib.

Sexism is just a liberal slander that femists use to distract and change Gods law.

Do you understand what feminism is?

Here is the dictionary definition:

fem·i·nism
: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

Political, economic, and social equality between men and women is Scripturally sound. (Galatians 3:28)

Can feminism be used to facilitate unScriptural "rights" and practices like abortion? Absolutely. But it does so in the same manner that corrupt men like Fred Phelps use the Bible to facilitate unScriptural hate mongering. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

The Bible tells wives to submit to husbands. It does not state that women are to submit to men. If I am wrong and it does, please show me where.

 

[adelphos]

Yes

Samuuel 12:8
And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

Clearly Gods sees fit to gift wives and concubines to me.

Men are to respect their wives. Much like how men respect their cars. I must know its limits and repspect them less I wreck and die, but I do not let the car drive me. I must be in control.

God Three males combined into one. Created Adam in His image. The female is but a subjugate part of the flesh male. Women are to facilitate reproduction. They are prone to emotional manipulation by satan thus to remain silent.

I agree generally, but some of this was like "ouch!"

 

[eddy]

Incorrect. From Mirram-Webster:

; especially : discrimination against women

Exactly. Feminism is about quotas. I fire department should hire female firemen becaue it is sexist not to. I guess it would be ok with you if your family died in a fire because it would be sexist not to hire a woman?

 

[theLords]

I agree generally, but some of this was like "ouch!"

Perhaps, the gentle conviction of the Holy Spirit?

 

[theLords]

Exactly. Feminism is about quotas. I fire department should hire female firemen becaue it is sexist not to. I guess it would be ok with you if your family died in a fire because it would be sexist not to hire a woman?

You keep using feminism/feminists as derogatory insults.

Why must it resound that a woman is not fit to hold a fire hose and put out a fire? She has toughed out child bearing, but putting out a fire is too much for her? Resulting in the only logical conclusion being that everyone would die if a woman was a firefighter? Your argument is a logical fallacy.

KATE WINSLET HAILED AS A HERO FOR HOUSE FIRE RESCUE

Tycoon Richard Branson praised Kate Winslet today. She rescued his 90-year-old mom from the inferno that engulfed his luxury retreat.

INSIDE EDITION's Diane McInerney spoke with Branson by phone.

"She's a great friend and has been fantastic. We've already given her lots of hugs and kisses. We're very grateful for what she did for Mom," said Branson.

Winslet, her kids, and 17 other guests were sleeping when the mansion caught fire early Monday morning. It was apparently struck by lightning as Hurricane Irene, which is now set to slam the East Coast, battered Necker Island, Branson's 74-acre private island in the Caribbean.

"Fortunately, one of them woke up and managed to get everybody else out just in time," said Branson.

"What role did Kate play in rescuing your mom?" asked McInerney.

"She picked her up and carried her down the steps and made sure everyone got to safety," said Branson.

Just last month, singer Nick Lachey and Vanessa Manillo were married on Necker Island. There is a huge open living room, and the dining table set for 24. It truly was the gold standard for luxury living.

Today, all that's left of the great house is a charred ruin, still smoldering.

Branson, whose daughter Holly was planning on getting married on the island later this year, told McInerney he will rebuild.

"We are already planning what we're going to build on the site. It's going to be bigger and better," said Branson.

News - Kate Winslet Hailed as a Hero For House Fire Rescue - InsideEdition.com

 

[jasoncran]

Exactly. Feminism is about quotas. I fire department should hire female firemen becaue it is sexist not to. I guess it would be ok with you if your family died in a fire because it would be sexist not to hire a woman?

you totally fail there big time. what does that have to do with women as multiple wives. do you really know what its like to have more then one gf or wife? i have heard it from first hand. God intended woman to be second to men ere sin ? the wives live in seperate houses. some nations do want to move away from that and one of them is i think is uzbekistan.

 

[eddy]

you totally fail there big time. what does that have to do with women as multiple wives. do you really know what its like to have more then one gf or wife? i have heard it from first hand. God intended woman to be second to men ere sin ? the wives live in seperate houses. some nations do want to move away from that and one of them is i think is uzbekistan.

God gifts men wives and concubines. That in and of its self shows it isn't a sin. The fact that concubines were ok shows that if not just wives that men may have relations with multiple women. Women are to submit.

Concubine definition.

1. a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, especially one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.

2. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank.

3. (especially formerly in Muslim societies) a woman residing in a harem and kept, as by a sultan, for sexual purposes.

 

[felix]

Re: Alzheimer's & Divorce Condoned by Pat Robertson

I checked on that Reba, and find that He didn't increase the number of wives (one) that he started with.

The closest I can find where God "gave" someone multiple wives is 2 Samuel 12:8:

I also gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!

Now, the KJV uses the term "into your bosom" which indicates intimacy, but does not always mean this. "Into the bosom" seems to be an expression that means care, closeness.

I'll be convinced that God gave David Saul's wives for the express purpose of intimate partners when I see that David did indeed "take" them in such a way. So far I haven't seen any indication that he did and there is very strong evidence that he didn't...namely that he was married to Micah, Saul's daughter by one of his wives. If David slept with both Micah and her mother, all three would be punished by being burned alive. (See Leviticus 20:14)

The list of David's wives do not include Saul's wives.

David can marry all of Saul's wives after Saul's death except the mother of Michal - just like Abishag was asked by Adonijah in 1Kgs 2:22. But scripture does not mention this happening because of the age difference.

I did a bible genealogy sometime ago and found Saul's son Jonathan, who was David's friend was 20 years older than David. Now imagine the age of Saul, which would be minimum 40-50 years older than David and Saul's wives would be atleast 20-30 years older than David. Why would David marry someone who is much older than him?

There is also another reason why David didn't take Saul's wives, because, any child born between David and the one who were Saul's wives will have Saul's name not David's (as we can see in Ruth's case).

The verse 2 Samuel 12:8 is not just about God giving Saul's wives to David, but God is willing to give David 'more' wives if the existing 6 is not enough.

Further,
(1Kgs 15:5) because David did what was right in the eyes of the LORD, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

So, polygamy is considered 'right in the eyes of the LORD'. The taboo about polygamy is something to do with culture and tradition and nothing to do with Christianity.

Today, what is right in the sight of the Lord is banned and branded as crime but what is shameful and sinful like adultery, having mistress and homosexuality is allowed by the law of the land -Satan is very clever.

Note: As I previously stated, I am not advocating polygamy but I am saying what the scripture teaches. In some cases where wife is really suffering and/or not able to perform duties of a wife because of her illness, I would certainly advocate polygamy but NOT divorce at any cost.

 

[jasoncran]

God gifts men wives and concubines. That in and of its self shows it isn't a sin. The fact that concubines were ok shows that if not just wives that men may have relations with multiple women. Women are to submit.

Concubine definition.

a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, especially one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.
2. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank.

3. (especially formerly in Muslim societies) a woman residing in a harem and kept, as by a sultan, for sexual purposes.

really, so i could have sex with my wife who stayed the night with(which was a sin) and yet at the time we are in loved but not married and wouldnt have to marry. sir need i remind you are promoting sin.

the bible calls that sin. God didnt plan that at all i can show that in context. take note of the fights over jacob.

why would god do that ere sin? he didnt. how does one have the love for women enough to die for? marriage is a blessing for both man and woman. being the wife number x of a man isnt a blessing but a curse.

 

[eddy]

really, so i could have sex with my wife who stayed the night with(which was a sin) and yet at the time we are in loved but not married and wouldnt have to marry. sir need i remind you are promoting sin.

the bible calls that sin. God didnt plan that at all i can show that in context. take note of the fights over jacob.

why would god do that ere sin? he didnt. how does one have the love for women enough to die for? marriage is a blessing for both man and woman. being the wife number x of a man isnt a blessing but a curse.

God clearly gifts men wives and concubines. God would not do that if it were sin.

 

[jasoncran]

God clearly gifts men wives and concubines. God would not do that if it were sin.

neither is slavery. so i can buy a girl or man of color. cranmans once owned and sold blacks years ago. why not start again.

slavery wasnt illegal in god eyes niether was pedophelia per modern day thinking. i could marry a girl that today is a minor. things were different then. today is way different. adam was given one wife not a myriad or hiram. you would have a case if jesus and moses said for this reason shall a man leave his mother and cleave to wives instead of wife.

 

[eddy]

neither is slavery. so i can buy a girl or man of color. cranmans once owned and sold blacks years ago. why not start again.

slavery wasnt illegal in god eyes niether was pedophelia per modern day thinking. i could marry a girl that today is a minor. things were different then. today is way different. adam was given one wife not a myriad or hiram. you would have a case if jesus and moses said for this reason shall a man leave his mother and cleave to wives instead of wife.

If you want to talk about slavery being biblical you can start a different thread.

Things are different from a worldly point of view. God clearly allowed concubines. So if you wanted to buy one you would not be sinning.

 

[felix]

neither is slavery. so i can buy a girl or man of color. cranmans once owned and sold blacks years ago. why not start again.

slavery wasnt illegal in god eyes niether was pedophelia per modern day thinking. i could marry a girl that today is a minor. things were different then. today is way different. adam was given one wife not a myriad or hiram. you would have a case if jesus and moses said for this reason shall a man leave his mother and cleave to wives instead of wife.

Today, slavery became illegal not because it was bad but because it was made worse by a few people.

Slaves in 1800s were treated like animals and lower than animals. I don't want to turn this into slavery thread but, just a hint on how slaves were treated in Jesus time - a centurion came to Jesus when his slave was suffering. Specific laws in OT were given. According to OT, if there is a slave who is a Jew, he must be released into freedom on jubilee year, so he is not always a slave.

The slavery what Biblical approves is very different from what is experienced in the past centuries.

 

[jasoncran]

If you want to talk about slavery being biblical you can start a different thread.

Things are different from a worldly point of view. God clearly allowed concubines. So if you wanted to buy one you would not be sinning.

:bigfrown so it i could buy you or you were captured in the acts of war then its not a sin? what happened to treat others like you wanted to be treated. so you wouldnt mind me beating you for not doing a job or in a fit of rage taking you out? all legal and the only punishment is you either go free or i lose my money that i spent on you

 

[eddy]

:bigfrown so it i could buy you or you were captured in the acts of war then its not a sin? what happened to treat others like you wanted to be treated. so you wouldnt mind me beating you for not doing a job or in a fit of rage taking you out? all legal and the only punishment is you either go free or i lose my money that i spent on you

Again this isn't about slavery.

But clearly especially if your wife is not capable of bearing children a man is allowed to find a concubine that is. He is not to beat her or treat unkindly though.

 

[jasoncran]

Today, slavery became illegal not because it was bad but because it was made worse by a few people.

Slaves in 1800s were treated like animals and lower than animals. I don't want to turn this into slavery thread but, just a hint on how slaves were treated in Jesus time - a centurion came to Jesus when his slave was suffering. Specific laws in OT were given. According to OT, if there is a slave who is a Jew, he must be released into freedom on jubilee year, so he is not always a slave.

The slavery what Biblical approves is very different from what is experienced in the past centuries.

the idea of indentered servitude in american history comes from that idea. and many of families came to america in that manner and originally seven years of servitude was the promised debt to pay for the expenses to travel here.


of course like isreal the colonists didnt keep their word, judah was judged for failing to keep the jubilees.

 

[Free]

Exactly. Feminism is about quotas. I fire department should hire female firemen becaue it is sexist not to. I guess it would be ok with you if your family died in a fire because it would be sexist not to hire a woman?

I don't care who the fire department hires, as long as they can perform the necessary duties. Not sure what that has to do with the topic.

So, polygamy is considered 'right in the eyes of the LORD'. The taboo about polygamy is something to do with culture and tradition and nothing to do with Christianity.

Note: As I previously stated, I am not advocating polygamy but I am saying what the scripture teaches.

The Bible never makes polygamy okay, never. What people seem to forget is that the OT most often records what happened; things that are descriptive not prescriptive. There is no way that one can say that "polygamy is considered 'right in the eyes of the LORD'". The Scriptures do not teach this.

From beginning to end God's plan is for marriage is one man, one woman. That he let some in their sinfulness have more was just something he let happen. Not once does the Bible explicitly or implicitly approve of polygamy.

In some cases where wife is really suffering and/or not able to perform duties of a wife because of her illness, I would certainly advocate polygamy but NOT divorce at any cost.

"Duties of a wife"? What duties? Cleaning the house, cooking dinner, laundry? Any man can, and should, be capable of doing those things on his own. Not much of a man if he can't. Not much of a man if makes his wife do those without helping.


I am seriously struggling to understand why some who claim to be Christians are so sexist.


Everyone: slavery is not the topic. totopic

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't see how polygyny can possibly be a good situation for a Christian. The union of one man and one woman is supposed to be an exclusive, lifelong relationship. God does allow for divorce in cases of adultery and abandonment by an unbeliever, but we're told "God hates divorce" (somewhere in Malachi, I think). I think the reason the OT has polygyny is the same reason the OT had liberal divorce laws (for men, anyway): hardness of men's hearts. Its progressive revelation at its finest. First God gives basic rules about marriage to keep brothers from marrying sisters and to make sure divorce didn't completely ruin women. Then He, through Our Lord, shows us the *real* ideal for marriage (one man, one woman, mutual submission, submission to the Lord) once the world is (kind of) ready for God to come to earth and show and tell us how to live.

Polygyny results in women being treated like chattel. Oh, wife #1 is barren? Get a new one, or two new ones! Hitting a mid-life crisis? Add in a couple 19 year old wives! It'll be awesome! The Christian marriage model does much to protect women and to give me much-needed exclusive love and companionship.

 

[adelphos]

Okay, so where do supporters of polygamy see that the early believers throughout all of the Christian Church's history that it was practiced to accepted among believers?

There is historical evidence that the Pharisees practiced polygny on a minor scale, and we know that many Pharisess came to the faith. It is not unreasonable to deduct that some of them were polygynists. However, there is no direct evidence - although Dr. Adams who was the found of Nouthetic counseling wrote in one of his books that there were absolutely Christian polygnists in the New Testament Church. I don't know where he got that evidence.

After the reformation, there were a few that practiced polygyny. In fact, Martin Luther was involved with the marriage of Philip of Hesse to his second wife while remaining married to his first.

Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

It says "his wife"; not "wives", and she shall become one flesh.

There is nothing in this statement that eliminates a second wife. It is a statement of first goal. Leave home, young man, be united to your wife (which may be first of many or final of one). If it was teaching that a man was to only have one wife, then it causes a direct contradiction with a few laws contained within the Law. God's Word does not contradict itself!

The term "one flesh" has a primary meaning centered on sexual intercourse. Paul used it when referrring to a man being "one flesh" with a harlot. Can a man be one flesh with more than one person at a time? Yes, or Paul's statement wouldn't make any sense.

Deuteronomy 17:17 says of a king who seizes land, "He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray."

This is not a statement against polynyny, it is a statement against coveteousness. The issues is "many wives," not a few wives. Read the context of this verse, it helps the clarity.

1 Timothy 3

" 1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife,..."

Again in verse 12
"A deacon must be the husband of but one wife"

Of the elder, Titus 1 says "An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife.."

Well, we know that "one" is translated from the Greek word "mia", which the New Testament translates as an indefinate article in some places, "a", or as "first" in other places.

These instructions are for church leaders, but I believe it shows the model God intended for marriage. From the earliest time of the Church, this model is consistently shown to be lived out by early believers. It's only been in the last few centuries that certain sects outside of the Christian Church have supported polygamy.

Some may suggest that this is hermeneutically unsound. If this text is meant for an example for the whole church, then it would suggest that those who are not married, don't have children, or are single are not being good Christians.

Polygyny has been supported from the time of the Reformation inside the church by some of those who were involved directly with the Reformation. I don't know where you received your information that only certain sects outside of the church supported it.

Respectfully

Adelphos