pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[reba]

Amen Allen!

 

[n2thelight]

We don't know what tomorrow brings.
We need to be ready now!

Yes we should always be ready,but Christ also told us everthing that must happen before His return,reason being,is so you don't get taken out of season.....

 

[n2thelight]

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.
The rapture takes place before the day of the Lord.
Matthew 24:29 refers to the day of the Lord.

Daniel 9:27 speaks of the 7 year treaty with the anti-christ.
This brings in the great tribulation.

Jeremiah 6:14 and 8:11
and Ezekiel 13:10 and 13:16 all speak of peace when there is no peace.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 speaks of peace and safety when there is no peace.

It is at the end of this time that we see the day of the Lord.

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:9; "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ".

Christ only returns once,those who are in Christ will not suffer His wrath....Can't figure out why people think they must,or will be raptured in order to escape,the judgement of Christ.....We as Christians must make a stand against satan(antichrist)and his deception,as that's what the end is all about......That is the purpose of putting on the whole armour.......Christians throughout history have suffered the most horrific of deaths,in all kind of torturist ways,what makes you all(rapturist)think you will escape?And besides,in the end it won't be about being kill(beheaded)as you all like to say,it's deception.........We must be prepared to make a stand,not fly away......

 

[farouk]

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.
The rapture takes place before the day of the Lord.
Matthew 24:29 refers to the day of the Lord.

Daniel 9:27 speaks of the 7 year treaty with the anti-christ.
This brings in the great tribulation.

Jeremiah 6:14 and 8:11
and Ezekiel 13:10 and 13:16 all speak of peace when there is no peace.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 speaks of peace and safety when there is no peace.

It is at the end of this time that we see the day of the Lord.

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:9; "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ".

Christ only returns once,those who are in Christ will not suffer His wrath....Can't figure out why people think they must,or will be raptured in order to escape,the judgement of Christ.....We as Christians must make a stand against satan(antichrist)and his deception,as that's what the end is all about......That is the purpose of putting on the whole armour.......Christians throughout history have suffered the most horrific of deaths,in all kind of torturist ways,what makes you all(rapturist)think you will escape?And besides,in the end it won't be about being kill(beheaded)as you all like to say,it's deception.........We must be prepared to make a stand,not fly away......

Scripture references have already been given to distinguish between the Lord's coming for His saints, and His coming with His saints, between the church and Israel.

 

[n2thelight]

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.
The rapture takes place before the day of the Lord.
Matthew 24:29 refers to the day of the Lord.

Daniel 9:27 speaks of the 7 year treaty with the anti-christ.
This brings in the great tribulation.

Jeremiah 6:14 and 8:11
and Ezekiel 13:10 and 13:16 all speak of peace when there is no peace.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 speaks of peace and safety when there is no peace.

It is at the end of this time that we see the day of the Lord.

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:9; "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ".

Christ only returns once,those who are in Christ will not suffer His wrath....Can't figure out why people think they must,or will be raptured in order to escape,the judgement of Christ.....We as Christians must make a stand against satan(antichrist)and his deception,as that's what the end is all about......That is the purpose of putting on the whole armour.......Christians throughout history have suffered the most horrific of deaths,in all kind of torturist ways,what makes you all(rapturist)think you will escape?And besides,in the end it won't be about being kill(beheaded)as you all like to say,it's deception.........We must be prepared to make a stand,not fly away......

Scripture references have already been given to distinguish between the Lord's coming for His saints, and His coming with His saints, between the church and Israel.

The problem with that view,is the fact, there is no difference between the Church and Israel....You are either with Christ,or against Him(saved or unsaved)No matter who or what you are............

 

[farouk]

Ephesians would certainly show otherwise, namely, that the church is not the same as Israel.

 

[n2thelight]

Ephesians would certainly show otherwise, namely, that the church is not the same as Israel.

Chapter verse please

 

[JLB]

1 thessalonians 4:16-17
" For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ (unfaithful) will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain(the faithful), will be caught up together with them(the unfaithful) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, so we( the faithful) shall always be with the Lord.

One taken. One left as in the days of Noah...... Noah was not "taken".

Let them dwell together, then FIRST harvest the weeds.

The Resurrection of the dead, can not be separated from the Rapture.

This Happens at the Coming of The Lord.

 

[JLB]

Without clear evidence people who believe in a pre trib rapture should just be quiet. One reason why i dont go to church, and im no denomination is because, yes they can quote the text correctly, but then they place it into there own context as a individual and gather followers and start there own movement. Maybe they are right, Maybe they are wrong. Its irrelevant. Its like everyone is saying 'follow me'.

Without 100% profe why do they bother?.

Its easier to talk about the cool things Jesus done and storys and why he is good, just basics, easy known clear simple messages, We know the book is scientificaly proven as over 95% pure and reliable. Well its 100% but profe shows at least 95% text is pure.

Not analise and spread gossip without profe about 'possibilitys' and 'maybes' they are so conviced because they over analize to much and it can effect the brain.

Maybe there is pre trib rap. Maybe not. Context can go either way so lets just focus on how cool Jesus is and stop trying to prove others right or wrong.

The Resurrection/Rapture occurs at His Coming.1 Corinthians 15:22-23, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

The antichrist is destroyed, at His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

His Coming is after the tribulation. Matthew 24:29-31

It's not a secret. Its all very plain and clear.


JLB

 

[JLB]

So pre trib or no pre trib?

You have your say and thats cool your personal opinion.

Why if you say its very plain and clear are some people so convinced of a pre trib rapture and others are not?.

So, Are you saying you are right and they are wrong?.

Anyhow its all good because in the end all are saved, so this topic of debate cannot effect salvation. Jesus conquored death.

God is good. I like to keep it simple.

There is not one single scripture in the Bible that supports a pre-trib rapture.

Not one!

Jesus Comes once, after the Tribulation.

 

[JLB]

Yea, thats why i said in my previous post that one individual speaker influences many from there own context. Even it is seperate from salvation that they also preach, and thats good and cannot be lost, but its these other types of situations and context gone out of control, that people can possibly be mislead that leads to cults and other movements.

Relax and just have a good time, life is too short in this world to stress. Jesus gave himself, now just have a good time and enjoy knowing truth. Im stoked as a bean. Life is great.

Or does g-d want me to be all debatable and deressed.

 

[Deborah13]

Yea, thats why i said in my previous post that one individual speaker influences many from there own context. Even it is seperate from salvation that they also preach, and thats good and cannot be lost, but its these other types of situations and context gone out of control, that people can possibly be mislead that leads to cults and other movements.

Relax and just have a good time, life is too short in this world to stress. Jesus gave himself, now just have a good time and enjoy knowing truth. Im stoked as a bean. Life is great.

Or does g-d want me to be all debatable and deressed.

Sorry for the very slight interruption, please.....thank you.

Kiwidan, just how do you get stoked as a bean? Fruitie-veggie, love it.

 

[thethinker]

Ephesians would certainly show otherwise, namely, that the church is not the same as Israel.

What! Paul told the Ephesians that they had become members of the "commonwealth of Israel."

 

[Eugene]

Jesus Comes once, after the Tribulation.

No more sin, no more death, and being the last trump, it is at the end of the millennium. Do any really think there will be no death or sin during the millennium? If so, show me. That indeed is the criteria of 1 Cor 15:52-55.

1 Cor 15:26 “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death,” and then and only then will 1Cor 15:55 be true. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

There will be saints in the millennium, and 1Co 15:52 says: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Again, this is at the end of the millennium; not at the start of the thousand years.

 

[farouk]

What! Paul told the Ephesians that they had become members of the "commonwealth of Israel."

Ephesians 2.12 actually says that the believers, prior to their conversion, were 'strangers from the commonwealth of Israel'; they came from a Gentile background.

The church began at Pentecost, Acts 2.

 

[JLB]

No more sin, no more death, and being the last trump, it is at the end of the millennium. Do any really think there will be no death or sin during the millennium? If so, show me. That indeed is the criteria of 1 Cor 15:52-55.

1 Cor 15:26 “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death,” and then and only then will 1Cor 15:55 be true. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

There will be saints in the millennium, and 1Co 15:52 says: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Again, this is at the end of the millennium; not at the start of the thousand years.

Please show me the scriptures you have to refute my statement that says - Jesus comes once after the tribulation.

The dead are resurrected at His Coming.

Those who are alive and remain are Raptured, at His Coming.

Everyone who are Christ's will receive an immortal body that will never die, at His Coming.

Our bodies will be just as His, at His Coming.

He Comes in this age, on the Last Day, at the last Trump.

 

[Eugene]

Please show me the scriptures you have to refute my statement that says - Jesus comes once after the tribulation.

The dead are resurrected at His Coming.

Those who are alive and remain are Raptured, at His Coming.

Everyone who are Christ's will receive an immortal body that will never die, at His Coming.

Our bodies will be just as His, at His Coming.

He Comes in this age, on the Last Day, at the last Trump.

The last trump is after the Millennium Please read 1 Cor 15:52-55 again. That is talking of a time after death is no more, but there is to be death during the millennium.

 

[thethinker]

Ephesians 2.12 actually says that the believers, prior to their conversion, were 'strangers from the commonwealth of Israel'; they came from a Gentile background.

The church began at Pentecost, Acts 2.

Note that Paul said that they WERE stangers from the commonwealth of Israel. The past tense "were" suggests that they are NO LONGER strangers from the commonwealth of Israel. Example: He also said that they WERE dead in their trespasses and sins. This means that they are NO LONGER dead in their trespasses and sins.

There is not one scintilla of evidence that the Church began at Pentecost. Jesus said that Pentecost was about RECEIVING POWER to be witnesses to Him. He said NOTHING about the Church being established at Pentecost.

Where do you guys get this stuff?

 

[thethinker]

The last trump is after the Millennium Please read 1 Cor 15:52-55 again. That is talking of a time after death is no more, but there is to be death during the millennium.

The LAST trumpet is at the resurrection and rapture of the Church (1 Corinthians 15:51-55).

 

[farouk]

Note that Paul said that they WERE stangers from the commonwealth of Israel. The past tense "were" suggests that they are NO LONGER strangers from the commonwealth of Israel. Example: He also said that they WERE dead in their trespasses and sins. This means that they are NO LONGER dead in their trespasses and sins.

There is not one scintilla of evidence that the Church began at Pentecost. Jesus said that Pentecost was about RECEIVING POWER to be witnesses to Him. He said NOTHING about the Church being established at Pentecost.

Where do you guys get this stuff?

Before His glorious ascension, the Lord Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come to abide with His disciples; previously, the Spirit did not indwell those of Israel under the Old Testament.

With respect, given the weight of New Testament distinctives, your question seems rather aggressive, friend.