pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm pre-trib.
I'm pre-trib.
I'm pre-trib.

I always will be until someone gives me a decent answer why I shouldn't be.

No one ever has yet.

 

[Rick]

nothing is messed up. All of out multi denoms and labels are no surprise to God.

 

[Eugene]

Problem is,Jesus can't come tonight

Why not? What must occur prior to Jesus coming in the air to meet us?

 

[Eugene]

nothing is messed up. All of out multi denoms and labels are no surprise to God.

Hi Rick and welcome to CF.net. I hope you enjoy your time with us. You didn't quote any particular person so it makes it harder to know exactly what you're referring to. To do so you can simply highlight anything you want to reply to and a small

box will appear you can click and it will be included with your reply. Thanks.

 

[n2thelight]

Problem is,Jesus can't come tonight

Why not? What must occur prior to Jesus coming in the air to meet us?

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation.

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not."

Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:33 "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

See all what things,and have they happened yet?,so again,Christ cannot return at anytime!!!!

It's all about deception.........


Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."

Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

It is written that on the first day of the Millennium age, at Christ's return, every knee shall bow to Christ. Romans 14:11; "For it is written, "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Jesus is quoting here from Isaiah 45:22, 23; "Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." [22] "I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." [23]

 

[Eugene]

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

When is this to begin? In other words will it be on the Lord's Day when He takes His own throne prior to tribulation Rev 4:2?

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Endure unto the end of what? And what salvation is being talked of?

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."
Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

I think this speaks the end of Christ’s reign when all things shall have been put under Him. 1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

There is something missing here.
Why does God tell us the number of days during the great tribulation?
Why does he tell us what goes on in the first 3 1/2 years and what goes on in the 2nd 3 1/2 years?
How do we know the days?
How do we know the beginning so that we can know the end?
How can Jesus say, "no one knows about that day and hour".
It just doesn't tie in together.

What does make sense is this;

The rapture takes place at an unknown day and hour.
This ushers in the great tribulation, giving us a starting point so that we can know what is going on at the proper time and place.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

There is something missing here.
Why does God tell us the number of days during the great tribulation?
Why does he tell us what goes on in the first 3 1/2 years and what goes on in the 2nd 3 1/2 years?
How do we know the days?
How do we know the beginning so that we can know the end?
How can Jesus say, "no one knows about that day and hour".
It just doesn't tie in together.

What does make sense is this;

The rapture takes place at an unknown day and hour.
This ushers in the great tribulation, giving us a starting point so that we can know what is going on at the proper time and place.

Allenwynne beat me to it. There are two events. One event, no one knows the day or hour and we are admonished all throughout the NT to watch and be ready. The 2nd event is almost spelled out to the day and will be easily seen when all the prophecies take place and Jerusalem will be surrounded. One event, no one knows the day or hour, He will be in the air and only His own will se Him. The 2nd event, every eye will see Him and Jesus Himself will come to earth and destroy the enemy outside of Jerusalem. Then the 1000 year reign where Israel will be THE super power on earth, borders will be moved to as promised and life will be good. After that Satan be loosed a little while, then the judgment day.

I have tried and tried to see the preterist view, and it just doesn't fit. I've read, prayed, and heard different views...nothing has shaken me from my Lord and my God. If I live my life as if Jesus could come tonight...and be ready and continue to pray and to trust...how am I going to be deceived? Stick to them scriptures, stick to praying with contrite humble heart, keep wearing the armor of God...and keep the faith. No man can shake that.

Amen!

 

[reba]

...nothing has shaken me from my Lord and my God. If I live my life as if Jesus could come tonight...and be ready and continue to pray and to trust...how am I going to be deceived? Stick to them scriptures, stick to praying with contrite humble heart, keep wearing the armor of God...and keep the faith. No man can shake that.

Not the whole statement amen to this part!

 

[Elijah674]

All will be tested to see who it is that they really LOVE! Their test will be decided on only one set of [complete] Commandments penned of God in all of His be/fore knowledge. Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse. The Eternal Law of the Godhead.

Then that will END our last day of testing! Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

How can Jesus say, "no one knows about that day and hour".

This is a Hebrew Idiom for the feast of trumpets.

· The Feast of Trumpets happens on the "new moon", which is 29.5 days after the last one, meaning it might occur on the 29th or 30th day, nobody knows for sure. "Of that day or hour no man knows" is an expression referring to this feast, and thus, the return of Jesus Christ.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

totopic :

 

[reba]

I have moved the posts on preterism to the preterism forum. moderator


http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=54166

 

[reba]

Should i listen to what people have to say these days, or do i just go and read the word for myself and cut out 2000 years of talk and confusion. I feel sorry for the people who have never opened the book and just listen to what they get told.

Amen brother.

1 John 2:27

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him./(KJV)

The end times discussions are not essential to our walk with the Lord or our salvation.... some of just enjoy the looking learning yes even the battles.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.
The rapture takes place before the day of the Lord.
Matthew 24:29 refers to the day of the Lord.

Daniel 9:27 speaks of the 7 year treaty with the anti-christ.
This brings in the great tribulation.

Jeremiah 6:14 and 8:11
and Ezekiel 13:10 and 13:16 all speak of peace when there is no peace.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 speaks of peace and safety when there is no peace.

It is at the end of this time that we see the day of the Lord.

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:9; "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ".

 

[reba]

Wonder how long i have to keep waking up in the morning with the first thought in my head... "Oh no please not again".

Kiwidan try good morning Lord instead of good Lord it's morning

Psa_118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

totopic

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The rapture is not the day of the Lord.

Absolutely not. The day of the Lord is when Jesus comes to earth. Hey allen, I found a scripture (escapes me at the moment) that heavily infers that the Lord wont come to the Mt of Olives first, but to Edom. Are you familiar with this? What is it about Edom? He has something to do in Edom before he goes and destroys the enemy in the valley of Armageddon. This left me wondering what it could be.

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the notion that people seem as if they almost do not want there to be a pre trib rapture. All it takes to be ready is walk in the Spirit constantly...and yet, people are more interested in disproving a pre trib rather than seeking constant fellowship of the Spirit. Even if there is no pre trib, times are so hard that I would think that one would desire to live in the Spirit anyway, if for no other reason but to have peace and contentment of spirit in these tumultuous times. Perhaps the plan of the evil one is to deceive & distract so that believers not be ready?

I don't know about Edom but the Lord could for us anytime, no more signs to look for, the time is near.

 

[Deborah13]

...and yet, people are more interested in disproving a pre trib rather than seeking constant fellowship of the Spirit.

I think some people warn against a pre-trib rapture because ...... some unsaved people think that they can put off turning to Christ or believers don't witness to everyone they can because they believe that the people left behind will get another chance at salvation by overcoming during the tribulation. (if they don't believe now, they will see the truth during the tribulation).
So if there is not any pre-trib rapture there is not any second chance. He will return and that is it.

I have heard unbelievers say that IF the rapture happens then they will know that what Christians have been saying it true. Then they will believe. You see they are looking for a sign.... not of faith.

If one is of the mind that no one can turn to God without the Holy Spirit how would anyone be saved during the tribulation? The teaching is that when the Church is raptured the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn.

 

[reba]

Here is a surprise i was a brat teenager....:shocked!
Raised in a dispensational home.... I remember talking with mom.... She could see the path i was turning too was not the best... Reba you know the Lord is coming back... rapture will happen and you dont want to miss it...get your self tight with God....etc....
I replied something to effect of ... mom if the trib is only a few years i will take my chances if they ask me about Jesus and i say Yes He is my Lord they can kill me ... mean while i can do what i want... mind you i did not say this in a disrespectful tone back then mom 's could smack you a good one....

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

We don't know what tomorrow brings.
We need to be ready now!