pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[reba]

IMO if a person has a Passover celebration or any of the other feast because they wish to remember and bring a bit of life into the OT I say great for them... IF any one thinks they are better before God because they observe these things I think they are in trouble...Our Salvation is by His Cross, His Blood, etc and the OT was/is but a shadow of the real..

 

[Eugene]

What I am saying is that we are all ONE BLOOD now. We all stand on the same ground with God. There is NO special people according to the flesh.

You do realize the one blood is that of Christ don't you? As to the flesh are you saying God can't tell the difference in Asian, Blacks, Indians, or fair skinned peoples? Again I ask, is there the possibility you're of Israel and just don't know it, and how would you discern that?

I once was talking to a Mormon and asking about the reason they changed their stance on Blacks now acceptable to being taken into the temple if I remember it correctly, but the supposed reason was something along the line of God having finally revealed they had finally suffered enough for fighting on the wrong side. My thought was that if their sin turned them black, why weren't they turned back to white when they were forgiven? Could we get a Dna test for you to be sure?

 

[thethinker]

The verbs in verse 35 should NOT have been rendered in the

indicative. The verbs are subjunctive which means that the promise was
CONDITIONAL. They would see Christ again IF they called upon the name of
the Lord

I had to stop reading here and laugh out loud... English is my only language and I am not good at it at all..... I do get the IF part and that is still hope...
I don't expect Israel as a nation will turn to the Lord ... As individuals The blood in one veins matters not . God looks on our hearts. not our DNA

The word "hope" was NOT my word. It was YOURS.

The verbs are subjunctive. Subjunctive verbs are CONDITIONAL.

οἶκος ὑμῶν. λέγω [δὲ] ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἴδητέ με ἕως [ἥξει ὅτε] εἴπητε, Εὐλογημένος ὁ ἐρχόμενος ἐν ὀνόματι κυρίου. ]

Go to the link below and you will see the verse. Then click on the verbs I highlighted in bold. A window will appear for each verb which indicates how it functions in a sentence. You will see an 'S' for each verb. This means that the verbs are subjunctive. Subjunctive verbs are CONDITIONAL. Jesus said, "You may not see me again till you may say...." In other words, "You will see me again IF you say...."

http://www.greekbible.com/index.php

So laugh all you want. The word "hope" was YOUR word. Furthermore, Jesus told them that the ax was laid at the ROOT of the tree. He was telling them that Israel was about to be cut down at the ROOT. A tree that is cut down at the ROOT is FINISHED.

 

[thethinker]

You do realize the one blood is that of Christ don't you?

Paul said that we no longer know Christ after the flesh. He said that we are one spirit in Christ.

As to the flesh are you saying God can't tell the difference in Asian, Blacks, Indians, or fair skinned peoples?

Your argument is circular. You ASSUME that a difference still remains and then you argue, "God can tell the difference." I am telling you that God abolished the ethnic difference.

Again I ask, is there the possibility you're of Israel and just don't know it, and how would you discern that?

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! No one can know if they are of Israel and they THEMSELVES must know it in order to claim their inheritance.

For the sake of argument let's do it your way. A great aunt of a homeless man may leave him an inheritance. But she doesn't know who he is. The homeless man also doesn't know about his great aunt. God knows who the man is. But if the man himself doesn't know who he is he will never claim his inheritance. The aunt may hire a private investigator to search him out and find him. The man is found and then informed that he has a great aunt that left him an inheritance. Then and only then will the man claim what is his.

The Romans destroyed all the Jewish archives. There are no more geneaological records going back to the twelve tribal heads. So no one can know if his lineage traces back to one of the twelve tribal heads. They cannot know if they are heirs. And YOU cannot know that those who now occupy the so called promised land are descendants from the twelve tribal heads. So even if the distinction still remains as you suppose, God is NOT going to zap them all on the head and tell them. If that was His method, then He would not have given us the gospel to preach.

But God has solved it: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," and, "You are all the children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. And if children, then heirs according to the promise."

Those who believe and only those may know that they are heirs. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science.

 

[thethinker]

Romans 10:19
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

The salvation of the Gentiles was not a ( )'s in time.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

I don't see how we can provoke them to jealousy if we are not here.

Paul was speaking about the remnant of Israel in his own time (Romans 11:5). Besides, the gospel of the Christian Zionists does NOT provoke modern "Jews" to jealousy. It provokes the Arabs Gentiles to jealousy. Seeing that the theology of Christian Zionism has the OPPOSITE effect of what God intended, then it must be wrong.

But you are right, there is no such thing as a pretribulation rapture.

 

[Deborah13]

The Romans destroyed all the Jewish archives. There are no more geneaological records going back to the twelve tribal heads. So no one can know if his lineage traces back to one of the twelve tribal heads. They cannot know if they are heirs. And YOU cannot know that those who now occupy the so called promised land are descendants from the twelve tribal heads. So even if the distinction still remains as you suppose, God is NOT going to zap them all on the head and tell them. If that was His method, then He would not have given us the gospel to preach.

Not to be argumentative but how do you know this?
Was not the OT scrolls, etc. preserved by the people. Are there not still old documents being found? What is behind the wall in the sealed passages under the temple mount?

 

[Deborah13]

Besides, the gospel of the Christian Zionists does NOT provoke modern "Jews" to jealousy.

I agree with this statement. Some Christian Zionists sound like all they are wanting is the return of Christ, they do not have a true heart for the salvation of the people.
I don't know that Paul was only speaking of, in his time. You would have to show me this in scripture, Romans 11:5 does not tell me this, standing alone.

imo,
People like Tim LaHaye and Tom Ice, are promoting the Ezekiel prophecies but at least they are honest enough to admit that if one is going to believe that all of this will happen in a 1000 reign, that the animal blood sacrifices for atonement are literal, as well. What really gets me is that there are those who take all the rest literally and when it comes to That, then they say, oh no, that's symbolic. They know, their hearts that would be a direct "trodding on the blood of the Lamb". But instead of revisiting the whole thing they'd rather be inconsistent and just believe what makes them comfortable.
So in order to believe that, then one must believe that Christ is the way, only for the Church but not the nation of Israel. Which is directly against everything that Jesus and the Apostles taught. There would have been no point in the Apostles to the Jews to have given their very lives for the Gospel, if this were true.

 

[thethinker]

The Romans destroyed all the Jewish archives. There are no more geneaological records going back to the twelve tribal heads. So no one can know if his lineage traces back to one of the twelve tribal heads. They cannot know if they are heirs. And YOU cannot know that those who now occupy the so called promised land are descendants from the twelve tribal heads. So even if the distinction still remains as you suppose, God is NOT going to zap them all on the head and tell them. If that was His method, then He would not have given us the gospel to preach.

Not to be argumentative but how do you know this?
Was not the OT scrolls, etc. preserved by the people. Are there not still old documents being found? What is behind the wall in the sealed passages under the temple mount?

I appreciate your questions and observations.

The Dead Sea scrolls were not kept in Jerusalem. They were discovered about 13 miles away at Khirbet Qumran in the Westbank. They were carefully sealed in jars and put in a dry environment. The Jewish geneaologies, on the other hand, were kept in Jerusalem which was totally leveled by the Romans. Furthermore, they were written on papyrus which rots just like paper. There is virtually no paper from the time and place of the Great Revolt other than the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Samaritan Nablus Roll Torah.

 

[Eugene]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! No one can know if they are of Israel and they THEMSELVES must know it in order to claim their inheritance.

I would suggest proving that using the bible for the future millennium and quit telling others they can not know, or ever come to know their heritage. E.g., Rev 7:3-8 specifies 144,000 sealed from twelve tribes, and that subsequent to Rev 4:1 where things John was shown which must be hereafter. Which one of them appearing in heaven in Revelation Chapter Fourteen will not know?

 

[thethinker]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! No one can know if they are of Israel and they THEMSELVES must know it in order to claim their inheritance.

I would suggest proving that using the bible for the future millennium and quit telling others they can not know, or ever come to know their heritage. E.g., Rev 7:3-8 specifies 144,000 sealed from twelve tribes, and that subsequent to Rev 4:1 where things John was shown which must be hereafter. Which one of them appearing in heaven in Revelation Chapter Fourteen will not know?

Greetings,

I have already addressed this. I reject the futuristic approach to the Revelation. The firstfruits of the twelve tribes of Israel in the Revelation is the same group mentioned in James.

1:1, James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:

1:18, He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

The firstfruits from the twelve tribes are NOT from our future. They belonged to apostolic times. Two groups separated by thousands of years CANNOT both be the "firstftuits" unto God. The firstfruits are the gathered IN THE BEGINNING and not in the end. They knew who they were. But this is NOT possible now.

Jesus said, "The ax is laid at the ROOT of the tree." He was saying that Israel was about to be cut down at the ROOT. A tree that is cut down at the ROOT is FINISHED.

This is why Paul said that the gospel had to be preached to the Jew "first." He was speaking as the captain of a sinking ship who gathers the women and children to safety first. So Paul wanted to gather the remnant of the Jews first so they all would be saved before God sent the Romans to cut the tree down and make their house "desolate."

"Even so then at this PRESENT time there is a remnant according to the election of grace." Romans 11:5

 

[Eugene]

I have already addressed this. I reject the futuristic approach to the Revelation.

The time has came for you to move your conservation to the Preterism forum in that case. Derailing futurist end time threads with Preterist thinking is unacceptable and unproductive to a serious study of the word of God.

 

[JLB]

pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

This is very true.


It teaches gullible people to be deceive by the antichrist.




JLB

 

[reba]

Our salvation is not dependent on the eschatology views we hold....

 

[Eugene]

So they think they can just sit back and let agendas unfold around them and relax because they will be suddenly be 'saved'. Biggest deciet i have ever known in history.

Rev 18:4

Rev 18:4 . . Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

You’ve got Thyatira covered. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Do you think there might be benefit and reason to being faithful unto death as we read of Smyrna in Rev 2:10, or what of those in Rev 3:10 alive who patiently keep the word of God until Jesus coming for them? They will be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world?

Notice something else here is that both of this portion of the church have crowns. All the church is not promised the same rewards even as those of Ephesus that leave their first or preeminent love of Christ.

As to your comment concerning salvation, which aspect of it are you referencing? Thanks.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm pre-trib.
Why not?
It's better than post-trib.

 

[reba]

Way to go Allen

 

[n2thelight]

I'm pre-trib.
Why not?
It's better than post-trib.

Me too, and it is brother, it surely is.
If Jesus comes tonight, I'm happy and ready,
Come Lord!

Problem is,Jesus can't come tonight,that's one of the biggest problems with pre,the notion that Christ could return at anytime....He told us everthing that will and must happen before He returns......And we are not there yet.........

Post, you should know the season.......Pre,sets you up for deception..........

 

[n2thelight]

Earthquakes, nation rise nation, famines. ...Yea well all thats been happening since the beginning of time. Nothing new.

Those are the beginnings.......satan pretending to be Christ,then we're close...Peace in the world,right around the corner.....

 

[Northman]

[MENTION=69809]n2thelight[/MENTION] Can you see satan pretending to be Christ right now?

 

[n2thelight]

@n2thelight Can you see satan pretending to be Christ right now?

Nope......Won't happen until he gets kicked out of Heaven,when he shall appear live and in person.....