pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[reba]

turnorburn,

The scriptures describe what antichrist is very clearly;



1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[thethinker]

Why can't they behave?

Jesus said that the kingdom was TAKEN AWAY from them and given to a nation "bearing the fruits of it." The kingdom has already been transferred to another nation.

And what of Hosea 5:15 ??

Again I say that the promises of God contained many "contingency clauses." I have already given Jeremiah 18:6-10 as an example. God said that the instant He speaks about planting a kingdom and Israel does not obey Him, that He will REPENT of His promise. There are contingency clauses spread throughout the prophets. Another contingency clause is found in Zechariah 1:3. The same is true for Hosea. Note that Paul transferred the promises in Hosea to the Gentiles (Romans 9:26-27). Whenever we see a promise transferred to the Gentiles it means that Israel did NOT meet the terms of the contingency.

A wonderful example of this is seen in Ephesians 3:1. Paul said, "I am a prisoner for you Gentiles." Compare with Acts 28:20 where Paul said that he was in chains for preaching the hope of Israel to them. Paul began to preach the hope of Israel to the Gentiles AFTER the Jews counted themselves unworthy of eternal life (Acts 13:46-47). Israel lost it all because of the disobedience of their leadership. But even then God reserved for Himself a remnant in Paul's time (Romans 11:5).

Bed time

 

[turnorburn]

reba: i know what the scriptures say dear heart that's why i posed the question

What does it mean when today's church says "If The Antichrist Showed Up Today" I'm a wee bit curious, the early church knew, so what happened? Why the change in attitude?

Founders of "Mainline" Churches Knew Who Anti-Christ Was

After reading statements like this i can see why they drew to the same conclusion

“The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one.â€

“We declare, assert, define and pronounce: To be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature altogether necessary for salvation.â€
[Boniface VIII, 14th Century]

The only thing neccessary for salvation is to be subject to Christ and Christ alone, unless that bachalor thinks himself to be God almighty.

tob

 

[TonkaTim]

Is the fulfillment of that not Christ?

I don't think so. He didn't rule Israel as a king. They killed him. From what I can tell, they never have had all of the land that they were promised, nor Christ to rule from the throne of David. I fugure this to take place during the millenium.

The true promise of inheritance is in New Heaven & the New Earth. It is completely fulfilled there.

The establishment of ancient Israel was type & shadow of things to come - The better promises. There is a reason why Moses changed Osee name to Yeshua(Joshua/Jesus). Just as Joseph was a type & show of the kinsmen redeemer(Christ), Joshuah is a type & shadow of the conquering King(Christ) putting an end to sin, executing divine wrath on the wicked, establishing the Kingdom.

Christ is King now. Christ holds the scepter & staff now. Christ's crucifixion was not a fall back plan if some of the people rejected Him as King. The nation built in a day is the Kingdom of Christ.(Isaiah 66:7-14). Isaiah specifically said: "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."(Isaiah 66:22)

The Jerusalem we're looking forward to is not on this earth & that is not a new teaching. It is as Isaiah foretold & Jesus & the Apostles confirmed. So even in year 33 AD Judea folks should not have been looking forward to an earthly & temporal Messianic kingdom. It has never been part of the plan.

Reba summed it succinctly with her post above:

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


David ruled God's people Jesus now rules God's people the ruling is the throne the chair is just a chair...

 

[jasoncran]

what I really don't get is that God didn't want isreal to EVER have a King.so when they lusted for one he TOLD Samuel what? for they have NOT rejected you but ME, give them a king when they get what they want they wont like it.

so years later God comes and dies for them and is rejected , so we are now to believe that hasn't NOT been reigning over them when the futurist says Jesus is God? THIS makes NO sense.

 

[jasoncran]

So do you think that there is no hope for Israel? Considering the depths of Gods love for His people, I doubt it that they are beyond hope. Perhaps it will take another holocaust or the Great tribulation to get His people to earnestly seek Him again, but I think they will.

This isn't over yet!
I'm going to look for a scripture to describe Israels eventual return to God. I'm pretty sure it's in there somewhere.
I know God has withdrawn from Israel plenty of times when they did not obey, left them to wander the desert for 40 years for it and so forth...but I don't think they are beyond hope.
Perhaps this is why God is dealing with Israel differently than with the church (or gentiles).

what make you think that a Hebrew will believe then over now?btw its for god so loved the world, not isreal. I mean really, I bet theres a ton of Hebrews saved. that to me is the fulfilling of romans 11:5. what about the fact that the cross is all that is needed. isreal had a function, It was to teach the nations about GOD, isn't that what the church does today? reconcile men to god?

 

[Eugene]

Christ is King now. Christ holds the scepter & staff now.

Have you any scripture for this pertinent to this present time?

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 2:8 . . But now we see not yet all things put under him.

 

[TonkaTim]

So do you think that there is no hope for Israel? Considering the depths of Gods love for His people, I doubt it that they are beyond hope. Perhaps it will take another holocaust or the Great tribulation to get His people to earnestly seek Him again, but I think they will.

This isn't over yet!
I'm going to look for a scripture to describe Israels eventual return to God. I'm pretty sure it's in there somewhere.
I know God has withdrawn from Israel plenty of times when they did not obey, left them to wander the desert for 40 years for it and so forth...but I don't think they are beyond hope.
Perhaps this is why God is dealing with Israel differently than with the church (or gentiles).

There is a reason I use the term "visible Judah". I do so because folks keep perceiving visible Judah as all of Israel when she is not.

When we look at human flesh, visible Judah is not even all of Judah much less all of Israel. To deal with the redemption of all of Israel we must follow the scriptures & realise we are dealing with both houses & more. The vast majority of physical Israel is invisible & has been coming to Christ for 2000 years, just as members of visible Judah has been coming to Christ for 2000 years.

So there is plenty of hope for Israel she is & has been coming to Christ since Christ walked this earth. He is the promised redeemer & it is fulfilled through him, even now.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=90512]Eugene[/MENTION]. WHY do you pray then if God doesn't reign and rule over his creation? does God have to ask satan permission to bless you? or save you?

 

[TonkaTim]

Christ is King now. Christ holds the scepter & staff now.

Have you any scripture for this pertinent to this present time?

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 2:8 . . But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

John 1: 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 5 1And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

John 18: 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

 

[Eugene]

[MENTION=90512]Eugene[/MENTION]. WHY do you pray then if God doesn't reign and rule over his creation? does God have to ask satan permission to bless you? or save you?

I really don't understand that. I do pray to my Father in Jesus' name. Don't you? No one Comes to our Father other than through Jesus.

 

[Eugene]

Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Hi Tonka Tim, I made bold a portion of your quoted scripture. When is Jesus' time? does He not at this time sit in His Father's throne?

 

[jasoncran]

ok that implies that he has control of the universe. that is why. can you show me where satan ever dethrone god in the scriptures? , god always had satan in control. he allows satan to do what he does.trying to separate spiritual from the physical is a big time problem with both futurism and hyper preterism

 

[Eugene]

can you show me where satan ever dethrone god in the scriptures? , god always had satan in control. he allows satan to do what he does.

I sure can't because I agree that Satan is but a tool in God's hands. Satan could only go as far with Job as God allowed. He stands before God accusing us day and night, and all our Father sees is us in His Son Jesus.

 

[jasoncran]

ok then doesn't make sense that the throne mentioned is that jesus took control over the whole world from satan as he allowed satan to have the other nations that god didn't deal with?

ie now is satan cast out.God rules in a differement manner then we often like. we would nuke satan now and judge men now. god just doesn't do that.he will in his time.

 

[TonkaTim]

Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Hi Tonka Tim, I made bold a portion of your quoted scripture. When is Jesus' time? does He not at this time sit in His Father's throne?

I see that. Why I posted part of the sentence for for a better understand. That section you quoted is partial. I'll post the complete sentence.

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

That is the complete sentence. When men added chapter & verse sometimes the way they break it up seems confusing. So it's best to look at the sentence structure. With these two phrases together it makes sense: "until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew"
It makes sense because Paul is not saying Christ's Kingship is future tense, but his appearing. When Paul declares Christ's Kingship he does so in the present tense. Just as the other scriptures I listed. Not only does Paul declare Christ King, but God Himself as well.

All my life this has been basic fundamental Christian doctrine. Jesus is Lord, Christ is King.

Why folks make videos like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPIOkdNL-QQ

 

[Eugene]

ok then doesn't make sense that the throne mentioned is that jesus took control over the whole world from satan as he allowed satan to have the other nations that god didn't deal with?

ie now is satan cast out.God rules in a differement manner then we often like. we would nuke satan now and judge men now. god just doesn't do that.he will in his time.

If I'm understanding you correctly without the aid of scripture I think I'm agreeing with you. In God's timing Jesus will sit on His own throne, and as a result will put down all authority, Satan will be cast from heaven and because he has but a short time will persecute them here on earth. Though we don't see all things under Him now, there is going to be change big time.

 

[jasoncran]

while I don't fully understand the verses on satan. I believe that jesus reigns now. the idea of the millennium puts an"end' to the kingdom, yet Daniel says his kingdom shall have no end.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=90700]Edward[/MENTION]. im know that they have been saying that for years. this ac would have to be really old by now as well in the 50s' they said the same thing. imagine this an 20 plus man in the 1950s. How old would he be now? in the 80's . he wouldn't be of much use to rally the people.

 

[jasoncran]

the problem with that [MENTION=90700]Edward[/MENTION]. if the feast of tabernacles mentioned in zechariah 14 then the law would have to return if the verse is to be taken as it was written to the Hebrews. the feast of tabernacles has a sin atonement in it.