Predestination

[NIGHTMARE]

I mentioned those God chooses for service in my post preceding that one NIGHTMARE. I was just attempting to explain the concept on the whole.

UNDERSTOOD

 

[bleitzel]

I believe that God is omnipotent(all powerful) and omniscient(all knowing). Therefore, God knew when he created me exactly what path my life would take. He knew what beliefs I would have, whether I would accept or deny Christ, when and how I would die, etc. So if he knew what decisions I would make, I would not have the ability to make an alternative decision because that would mean he was wrong about what I would do.

My two cents. Three cents. However many...

Your definitions of ominpotence and omniscience are not congruous. You say you understand omnipotence to mean all powerful and omniscience to mean all knowing, so to be congruous shouldn't omnipotence mean all doing? Or omniscience be all knowledge-ful or put more understandaly knowledgeable? Think about it, omnipotence doesn't mean all doing, or that God does all things. It means He has the power to do whatever it is He wants to do, right? So it implies He allows other things to happen, or other people to do some things that He Himself does not do.

So maybe omniscience should be understood to mean that God can know anything He wishes to know, not that He knows all things. God does not have to know all things future. In fact, several times in the Bible the narative seems to show that God chooses not know the future infallibly (the story of Noah.) I believe that the definition of omniscience as God knows all things has been relied upon for so long in error because people have assumed that it was the definition that made God the strongest, but it doesn't. In fact, we're putting God in a breadbox by saying that he must know everything. Does God not have the power to choose not to know something?
His omnipotence would suggest that He does....

 

[LOL_:-)]

Hi joechrist and shad,

God predestines people for service,

"The word of the Lord came to me, saying, ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.' " (Jeremiah 1:4,5)

God also predestines events to happen.

"I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do." (Isaiah 46:10,11)

However, God does NOT predestine the eternal destiny of people. But God does know beforehand what the eternal destiny of people will be. Foreknowledge means that God knows the outcome of all things in advance. The future is to God what the past is to us. It is unchangeable. We may have a perfect view of our past, but we are powerless to change one word, thought, decision, or action in the past. God is also powerless, under His own divine rule of love (proven by the death of Jesus), to alter or change the future in any way; though he knows the outcome.

Don't buy into the belief that says God has already decided who is going to live forever and who is not, so no matter what we do, the outcome has already been predetermined. This concept is called "fatalism". Fatalism claims everything that happens is the predetermined will of God. It is a FALSE doctrine. It says that people have no choice about their eternal destiny; and that God created some people simply for destruction. Those ideas are FALSE. Knowing the difference between foreknowledge and predestination really helps in understanding.

What about these passages:

"He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will . . ." (Ephesians 1:5)

"He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

Put those two verses together and what does it mean? If God predestined us to be adopted as His sons; then why is He patient with us, wanting us to repent so we don't perish?

Ephesians 1:5 (above) says what?

* God predestined who? Us (fallen man).
* He predestined fallen man to be what? Adopted (the adoption process).
* How did He predestine fallen man to be adopted as His sons? Through Jesus Christ!

God predestined the process of adoption as His sons available to all mankind through Jesus Christ.

"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:4,5)

Hi Osgiliath,

I'm new on this forum and apologise if I'm asking a question you have already answered. What you said makes sense to me exceptin relation to the verse in the bible that says God chose us we didn't choose him?