Predestination

[savedbygrace57]

The teachings of Jesus Christ are found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I’m sure you know. Where does Jesus speak of predestination?

We serve a different Jesus. Your jesus is a failure..a saviour that cannot save unless someone lets him..lol

 

[Vince]

"Your jesus is a failure"

While many false doctrines will deny the nature of God, Calvinism is the only error I know of that attacks God, and Jesus, personally.

 

[elijah23]

Predestined or predestination is mentioned in the Bible.

Romans 8:29 (ESV)
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

It is self-evident that a perfect, loving God would not predestine anyone to burn forever.

 

[elijah23]

Elijah, I can see that you've been giving this important matter some serious thought. We could go to Heaven by obeying God's will, but none of us obey God's will:

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."


Fortunately, God made a way for us to go to Heaven despite our sinfulness:

"But God proved His love towards us, because, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."


We cannot earn our way into Heaven by being good, because we're not good enough. However, God will take you to Heaven as a gift.

"For the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord."


The gift of going to Heaven is offered only through Jesus Christ:

"Jesus said unto him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except by Me.'"

We have all sinned, but Jesus died for those sins.

We do need to stop sinning, though, I believe.

 

[elijah23]

e:

My basic hermeneutics are as follows:

By God's grace, I go to the Bible to find out what He says He does, and wonder at His grace in the Gospel.

I don't first decide what God 'ought' to do according to my reasoning and then read into the Bible what I want it to say.

Some things about God are self-evident. I do not need the Bible to know that he is perfect. To be perfect, you have to be motivated entirely by love. Yes?

 

[elijah23]

We serve a different Jesus. Your jesus is a failure..a saviour that cannot save unless someone lets him..lol

My Jesus allowed himself to be crucified to save us from our sins.

If we want to be happy, though, we need to stop sinning, I believe.

 

[savedbygrace57]

elijah:

My Jesus allowed himself to be crucified to save us from our sins.

And he is a failure because many for whom he was crucified for will end up dying in their sins and being punished for them..

My Jesus, by His crucifixion, that is His death, shall make many righteous..Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He bare the sin of many heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Your Christ cannot do that, sorry..

 

[elijah23]

elijah:



And he is a failure because many for whom he was crucified for will end up dying in their sins and being punished for them..

My Jesus, by His crucifixion, that is His death, shall make many righteous..Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He bare the sin of many heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Your Christ cannot do that, sorry..

My Jesus said we have to stop sinning. I am hard at work trying to do that.

 

[savedbygrace57]

My Jesus said we have to stop sinning. I am hard at work trying to do that.

We serve a different Jesus.

My Jesus, by His crucifixion, that is His death, shall make many righteous..Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He bare the sin of many heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Your Christ cannot do that, sorry..

 

[elijah23]

We serve a different Jesus.

My Jesus, by His crucifixion, that is His death, shall make many righteous..Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He bare the sin of many heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Your Christ cannot do that, sorry..

My Jesus disciplines me when I sin. He does it because he loves me.

 

[savedbygrace57]

My Jesus disciplines me when I sin. He does it because he loves me.

My Jesus, by His crucifixion, that is His death, shall make many righteous..Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He bare the sin of many heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Your Christ cannot do that, sorry..

 

[elijah23]

My Jesus, by His crucifixion, that is His death, shall make many righteous..Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He bare the sin of many heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Your Christ cannot do that, sorry..

Spare the rod and spoil the child.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So the death of Christ effects the divine purpose of many being made into the image of His Son, and receiving the adoption of Sons.. These both are by predestination from eternity rom 8:


28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

So by His death or obedience, many shall be made righteous as He is righteous..

rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 jn 3:7

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Jesus death for those He died for ensures they are made righteous as He is Righteous..hence conforming them into His Image..all by Him !

 

[elijah23]

So the death of Christ effects the divine purpose of many being made into the image of His Son, and receiving the adoption of Sons.. These both are by predestination from eternity rom 8:


28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

So by His death or obedience, many shall be made righteous as He is righteous..

rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 jn 3:7

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Jesus death for those He died for ensures they are made righteous as He is Righteous..hence conforming them into His Image..all by Him !

[16] But to the wicked God says:
"What right have you to recite my statutes,
or take my covenant on your lips?
[17] For you hate discipline,
and you cast my words behind you.
[18] If you see a thief, you are a friend of his;
and you keep company with adulterers.
[19] "You give your mouth free rein for evil,
and your tongue frames deceit.
[20] You sit and speak against your brother;
you slander your own mother's son.
[21] These things you have done and I have been silent;
you thought that I was one like yourself.
But now I rebuke you, and lay the charge before you.†Psalms 50:16-21 RSV

 

[Vince]

It is God's will for the wicked to repent, not die.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord GOD, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

 

[Bazz1040]

It is self-evident that a perfect, loving God would not predestine anyone to burn forever.

But that is not what is says......it simply means that before God created anything human beings were an eternal thought in God's mind, and was to be conformed to the image of Jesus....whom is God in human form.

 

[elijah23]

But that is not what is says......it simply means that before God created anything human beings were an eternal thought in God's mind, and was to be conformed to the image of Jesus....whom is God in human form.

I don’t know much about the predestination issue. I was under the impression some people think there are those who are predestined to burn forever, even before they are born.

 

[savedbygrace57]

It is God's will for the wicked to repent, not die.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord GOD, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

That scripture does not apply to all without exception, but it applied to National Israel, and the death was a National Covenant death

ezk 33:

11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Thats why you do not need to be teaching scripture, you do not know how to rightly divide the Truth..I counsel you again:

James 3:

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

[Bazz1040]

I don’t know much about the predestination issue. I was under the impression some people think there are those who are predestined to burn forever, even before they are born.

No one is predestined for that. In fact, no one will burn in Hell without end. Those who knowingly have chosen to reject salvation will simply be burnt up, never to live again. No one will even remember that they have ever lived.

The problem is a lot of Christians and even pastors use the threat of Hell to get people to do what they want them to do. But the gospel is good news and Jesus did not go about telling people that they are going to burn in Hell. His message was constantly about the kingdom of God.....preaching fear is not the gospel.

 

[Vince]

Since it is not God's will that anyone perish, why does God kill people? Annanias and Sapphira, as well as Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, appear to have been saints who went into serious sin. But what about Pharaoh and the Egyptians?

Pharaoh was not an innocent man whom God forced to sin. He had hardened his own heart before God did it to him. Exodus 8:15 tells us "But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the LORD had said."

Exodus 9: 34-35 tells us "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain, the hail, and the thunder had ceased, he sinned yet more; and he hardened his heart, he and his servants. So the heart of Pharaoh was hard; neither would he let the children of Israel go, as the LORD had spoken by Moses."

I'll be using several posts to explain the Biblical teaching on Pharaoh, but we'll start with this one: Pharaoh was not an innocent man whom God forced to sin.