Predestination

[smaller]

Uhm, no. Predestination refers to our being conformed to the image of His Son and to being adopted as sons. Period. There are no other predestinations.

Uh, no, vessels of dishonour are PREDESTINED to wrath and destruction.

"Predestination is a Gospel doctrine."

I think it's pretty secure that Satan and his messengers are PRE-destined to be totally destroyed. Unless you want to 'make a case' for THEM?

Uhm, no. The Gospel is that Jesus died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, and was buried, and rose again from the dead according to the Scriptures. Predestination is not part of the Gospel.

er, ah, if you say so?

Nope!

Satan and his messengers shall be without doubt IN THE LAKE OF FIRE. There is NO WAY 'they' are going to avoid this fate.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

Uhm, no. The Gospel is that Jesus died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, and was buried, and rose again from the dead according to the Scriptures. Predestination is not part of the Gospel.

Thats just part of the whole, our sins in 1 cor 15 3 would be the sins of those who have been predestinated to the Image of God's Son, apparently you do not study.

 

[Vince]

"Uh, no, vessels of dishonour are PREDESTINED to wrath and destruction."

There is no such teaching in Scripture. No one is predestined to wrath and destruction.

1 Corinthians 15:1-3 tells us what the Gospel is. Predestination is not part of the Gospel:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you --- unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

 

[smaller]

"Uh, no, vessels of dishonour are PREDESTINED to wrath and destruction."

There is no such teaching in Scripture. No one is predestined to wrath and destruction.

I would say that the devil and his messengers are without any uncertainly predestined to be totally destroyed. Don't know why any believer would say otherwise quite frankly.

 

[Vince]

I would say that the devil and his messengers are without any uncertainly predestined to be totally destroyed. Don't know why any believer would say otherwise quite frankly.


Because the Bible teaches no such thing.






Readers: The Bible teaches that the saints are predestined to the adoption of sons, and are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Period. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

1 Corinthians 15:1-3 tells us what the Gospel is. Predestination is not part of the Gospel:

Yes predestination is part of the gospel, 1 cor 15:1-3 is not exhaustive as to what the gospel is.

Where do you see gal 3: 8 at in 1 cor 15:1-3 ? Are you saying thats not the gospel because its not found in 1 cor 15:1-3 ?

apparently you do not study.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

and it also teaches that the Father draws all men to Christ by teaching them

All men as in all types, but not all without exception. He draws all who are of His Bride to His Son.

 

[glorydaz]

I would say that the devil and his messengers are without any uncertainly predestined to be totally destroyed. Don't know why any believer would say otherwise quite frankly.


Because the Bible teaches no such thing.






Readers: The Bible teaches that the saints are predestined to the adoption of sons, and are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Period. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.

I agree, Vince. Those who respond to the call of God to repent are predestined to become sons of God and to be conformed to the image of His Son. Whosoever will ....

I guess you could say those who don't respond to God are "predestined" to spend eternity in hell or outer darkness, but that's not what these verses are talking about.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

I

agree, Vince. Those who respond to the call of God to repent are predestined to become sons of God

Thats heresy, those who have been predestined are the ones who respond to the call.

Rom 8:

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:

 

[glorydaz]

glory:

I

Thats heresy, those who have been predestined are the ones who respond to the call.

Rom 8:

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:

Heresy? Perhaps you failed to read what I wrote...or were just too quick to jump. All men are called to repent, are they not? Many are called but few are chosen. If you always use "called" to refer to the elect, you'll only be confused. Those who are "in Christ" are the elect...predestined to be sons of God and conformed to the image of His Son.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

 

[Vince]

Galatians 3:8 is not the Gospel, nor is it part of the Gospel.

When the Bible says that all men will be taught of God, it does not say all types will be taught of God. It says that all men will be taught of God. It also says that Jesus enlightens all men, and draws all men to Himself. Those are some of the ways by which the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, not all types of men.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

Heresy?

Yes heresy.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

Galatians 3:8 is not the Gospel, nor is it part of the Gospel.

Thats what you say, not what the inspired testimony states:

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

In addition, Paul wrote to the colossians that they had heard through the gospel of their eternal inheritance col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Now, where in 1 cor 15:1-3 is their any mention of the hope laid up for them in heaven ?

Its not mentioned there, because in those 3 scriptures , there is not a exhaustive giving of the gospel.

You do not study !

 

[Vince]

Over the years I have noticed that Calvinism is a religion of fear and accusations. Genuine Christians are frightened away from Scripture by accusations of heresy, failure to study the Bible, etc., if they do not follow the philosophies of the false prophet Mani.

The good news had indeed been preached to Abraham and to others. That good news is described in 1 Corinthians 15:1-3.

 

[smaller]

[smaller]I would say that the devil and his messengers are without any uncertainly predestined to be totally destroyed. Don't know why any believer would say otherwise quite frankly.[end smaller]


Because the Bible teaches no such thing.

Oh yeah? So you are promoting Satanic salvation?

Readers: The Bible teaches that the saints are predestined to the adoption of sons, and are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Period. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.

Yeah, all those references about the devil are NOT THERE in the text. Just move along people, nothing to see here.

 

[Vince]

Oh yeah? So you are promoting Satanic salvation?

No, and I am not promoting a religion of fear and accusations, either.

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 cor 15:1-3, for sure is Gospel Truth, but its a mistake to think thats all to it. The Gospel of My Lord Jesus Christ is much more informative of the overall Person and Work of the Jesus Christ. Its comprised of who He is, what He has accomplished, and for whom He did accomplish it for and the results and effects of His work. Also the Gospel that Paul was revealed had an element of Mystery. Paul often referred to it as a Mystery i.e Eph 6:19

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

And that Mystery is not even discussed in 1 cor 15:1-3, Just simply stating that Christ died for our sins according to the scripture and that He was raised according to the scripture is by no means preaching the Mystery of the Gospel.

Paul frequently described the gospel and its implications as the Mystery of which one was the equality of both Jew and Gentile as Co Heirs and Co Partakers of the Gospel promises made to Israel.

Eph 3:


1For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

This was all part of the Gospel that Paul had revealed to Him in 1 cor 15:

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

But he did not go into exhaustive detail in the 1 cor 15 passage about that aspect of the Gospel, as he did in romans 11.

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So its fine to say that 1 cor 15:1-3 is the gospel, but don't try to make it seem like nothing else has not been revealed as the Gospel too, it shows how unlearned one is of the Truth, and lack of study of the scriptures.

There is much more that is the Gospel in the scripture, but this will suffice for now to make the point.

 

[smaller]

No, and I am not promoting a religion of fear and accusations, either.

So, there are no devils?

IF yes, are they predestined to the Lake of Fire?

And if no to them existing or no to their fate in the Lake, that would be a novel fringe fantasy that doesn't exist in text, imho.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The first chapter of Ephesians is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that which was revealed to Paul.

Everything from the 3 vs following is gospel Truth, that Paul learned by revelation:


3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

All what Paul rehearsed as to what good things God did for chosen sinners in Christ beginning back up to vs 3- 12 all are gospel Truths, the Gospel of God's Grace, and predestination is included in vs 5 and 11.

To say that predestination is not part of the gospel of God's Grace, is a serious mistake and contrary to scripture.

 

[Vince]

Not only does the passage not teach that predestination is part of the Gospel but one of the verses states clearly that we are not sealed until AFTER we accept Christ:

"in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"




Readers, the saints are predestined to the adoption of sons, and to be conformed to the image of His Son. Period. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.