Predestination

[glorydaz]

To say that predestination is not part of the gospel of God's Grace, is a serious mistake and contrary to scripture.

It's a serious mistake to attempt to put God into a box. God's sovereignty and man's free will go hand in hand. This mystery cannot be understood by the natural man. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are the elect of God....we hear the gospel and believe, and are then sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 - "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

God has predestined (before ordained) believers be adopted and conformed into the image of the Son.

Ephesians 1:5 - "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Ephesians 2:10 - "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

 

[Vince]

While we're on the subject, do you realize that the phrase "Sovereignty of God" does not appear anywhere in the Bible?

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

It's a serious mistake to attempt to put God into a box.

To deny predestination as a gospel Truth is denying the Truth of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Not only does the passage not teach that predestination is part of the Gospell but one of the verses states clearly that we are not sealed until AFTER we accept Christ:

"in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"




Readers, the saints are predestined to the adoption of sons, and to be conformed to the image of His Son. Period. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.

You been shown the Truth, I cannot make you believe it.

 

[Vince]

To deny predestination as a gospel Truth is denying the Truth of God.


Folks, this is a fine example of how Calvinism is a religion of fear and accusations. 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 shows us that predestination is not part of the Gospel. Second, no one on this thread is denying the Biblical teaching that the saints are predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, and are predestined to the adoption of sons.

All other types of predestination are the philosophies of men and are not found in God's Word.

 

[smaller]

Folks, this is a fine example of how Calvinism is a religion of fear and accusations. 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 shows us that predestination is not part of the Gospel. Second, no one on this thread is denying the Biblical teaching that the saints are predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, and are predestined to the adoption of sons.

All other types of predestination are the philosophies of men and are not found in God's Word.

And your statements are certainly not correct.

The devil and his messengers are without ANY DOUBT predestined for the LAKE OF FIRE. There is no getting around this fact. Salvation is promised to them exactly NOWHERE in the scriptures and there are a multitude that says THEY ARE heading there regardless.

So, yes, predestination is very much in the Bible as it pertains to the devil and his messengers heading to HELL/the lake of fire IS A FACT.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

When you get done addressing this fact, then perhaps you can handle a couple of other facts about predestination that are also in the scriptures that pertain to mankind that are likewise just as factual.

God intentionally blinded unbelieving Jews by the placement of a 'spirit of stupor' upon them in order to bring salvation to the gentiles. (Romans 11:8-9)

These were predestined to UNbelief and in YOUR behalf.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

To deny predestination as a gospel Truth is denying the Truth of God.


Folks, this is a fine example of how Calvinism is a religion of fear and accusations. 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 shows us that predestination is not part of the Gospel. Second, no one on this thread is denying the Biblical teaching that the saints are predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, and are predestined to the adoption of sons.

All other types of predestination are the philosophies of men and are not found in God's Word.

Yes I have shown you the error of your thinking, i cannot make you believe it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

smaller:

And your statements are certainly not correct.

The devil and his messengers are without ANY DOUBT predestined for the LAKE OF FIRE

And so is his seed as Jesus made clear here Matt 23:


32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

They cant, because its predestined for them to go there along with their Father, the devil Jn 8:44

So when Jesus says that the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, his seed was included with the devil, they are one, Just as Christ and His seed are one.

 

[Vince]

Sorry Folks, but the word "predestined" is never used for angels, demons, Satan, Jews, or lost people.

Never.


Nope.



Not even once.


Those who accept Christ are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, and to be adopted as sons. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.

 

[smaller]

Sorry Folks, but the word "predestined" is never used for angels, demons, Satan, Jews, or lost people.

Never.


Nope.

Not even once.

Sorry Vince. Just cited you a couple scriptures that flat out state that the devil and his messengers ARE for a fact heading for the LAKE OF FIRE.

That event has not yet transpired. But the FINALITY has already been WRITTEN....i.e. THEY are PREDESTINED to go there. There is no getting around this fact.

As to the Jews, that is another matter as well. They were ALSO for a fact INTENTIONALLY blinded by Gods placement of a 'spirit of stupor' upon them. There is no getting around this fact either.

You can make any claim you want, but SATANIC SALVATION is assuredly NOT in the scriptural cards.

 

[smaller]

smaller:



And so is his seed as Jesus made clear here Matt 23:


32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

They cant, because its predestined for them to go there along with their Father, the devil Jn 8:44

So when Jesus says that the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, his seed was included with the devil, they are one, Just as Christ and His seed are one.

There are many examples in TEXT where 'the people' were freed by Jesus from those entities, so no, they are not ONE. They are entirely different entities in the same BODY. That does not make them ONE.

 

[savedbygrace57]

There are many examples in TEXT where 'the people' were freed by Jesus from those entities, so no, they are not ONE. They are entirely different entities in the same BODY. That does not make them ONE.

Jesus, He had no Ideal how the serpents seed would escape the damnation of hell.

Gen 3:

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Matt 23:


32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Maybe He should consult with you , so you can correct His thinking.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Sorry Folks, but the word "predestined" is never used for angels, demons, Satan, Jews, or lost people.

Never.


Nope.



Not even once.


Those who accept Christ are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, and to be adopted as sons. All other predestinations are the philosophies of men.

It does not have to be used, there is never a verse that says , lost people, angels, satan, jews and ect have not been predestinated to hell, but they have.

 

[smaller]

Jesus, He had no Ideal how the serpents seed would escape the damnation of hell.

You're right. THEY are not escaping. To make that working of devils the same as people however is a severe flaw in reasoning, particularly when we should see these matters 'personally' as noted prior.

Letting yourself off the hook in the name of Jesus for your sins which are connected to the devil while crying for the other sinners to be thrown into the Lake for the same sins is somewhat lame to say the least.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

Those who accept Christ are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son

Thats wresting scripture, for the Truth is predestination is before the person is called in order to respond.

rom 8:

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:

 

[savedbygrace57]

smaller:

You're right. THEY are not escaping

I know they are not, none of the serpents seed will escape the damnation of hell. They were created as vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction. How can they escape that Divine Purpose ?

 

[smaller]

smaller:



I know they are not, none of the serpents seed will escape the damnation of hell. They were created as vessels of wrath to be fitted for destruction. How can they escape that Divine Purpose ?

If God ever allows you to see your sin connected to the devil you may be led to go easier on the other blind PEOPLE.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

Letting yourself off the hook in the name of Jesus

I did not let myself off the hook, God did, He did not impute the sins of His people unto them !

2 cor 5:

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Who can lay anything to the charge of God's elect world ? rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Dont be mad and jealous because your God has not did that for you.

 

[smaller]

I did not let myself off the hook, God did, He did not impute the sins of His people unto them !

2 cor 5:

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Who can lay anything to the charge of God's elect world ? rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Dont be mad and jealous because your God has not did that for you.

You obviously limit the elect to only whom YOU personally think.

Romans 11:25-32 clearly indicates that blinded enemies of the Gospel who are ISRAEL are loved of God for the sake of their fathers, regardless of their present blinding.

 

[savedbygrace57]

If God ever allows you to see your sin connected to the devil you may be led to go easier on the other blind PEOPLE.

You are in trouble if God has never given you eyes to see that your sins have been laid upon Christ to die for.

Christ died for my sins 1 cor 15:3

and on behalf of all those He died for, He has destroyed the works of the devil.

heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

I jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.