Bible Study Predestination

[Edward]

I find myself leaning to the assertion that we can be predestined for certain things through the foreknowledge that God has about everything we will ever even think. That our actions are 100% free will, just that God knows how we will think and react. He wouldn't need to consult a crystal ball, He just knows, and knew before the foundation of the world, which is why the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

Did God or can God predestine a certain few to be born for this or that? Yes I do think He can and may have. This would be the exception though and not the rule, and while I may not understand some aspects of it, I'm sure that it would be done in a very just way.

 

[Eugene]

Did God or can God predestine a certain few to be born for this or that? Yes I do think He can and may have. This would be the exception though and not the rule, and while I may not understand some aspects of it, I'm sure that it would be done in a very just way.

Dear Brother Edward, John the Baptist seems to fit that concept. Was the following scenario due to God's foreknowledge, or mandate?
Luk 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Luk 1:14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

 

[Edward]

Dear Brother Edward, John the Baptist seems to fit that concept. Was the following scenario due to God's foreknowledge, or mandate?
Luk 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Luk 1:14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

That came to mind as I was typing my response brother. John the Baptist is a prime candidate and example of this uh, fore-calling (?)...

Perhaps Noah also! I've read a (non-biblical) text (Enoch) wherein Noah was said to shine as the sun when he was born and was actually born speaking and praising God...it terrified everyone in the house and they went to Enoch to (get reassured) tell him of this marvel and ask his advice... So perhaps Noah was "chosen" also?

 

[Brother Mike]

I find myself leaning to the assertion that we can be predestined for certain things through the foreknowledge that God has about everything we will ever even think. That our actions are 100% free will, just that God knows how we will think and react. He wouldn't need to consult a crystal ball, He just knows, and knew before the foundation of the world, which is why the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
(1Pe 1:20)

The lamb was slain from the World, or from the foundation of the World. He was not made known until the last days started to kick off.

There is a distinction between "BEFORE" the World and "FROM" in scripture.

Foreordained means Jesus was know, at least by the Father as Jesus said the Father gave him glory "BEFORE" the World was even made.

Blessings.

 

[Leah781]

I agree with Deborah that Romans 8:28,29 is talking about a group of people not individuals.

2 Peter 1:10 says: “Do your utmost to make the calling and choosing of you sure for yourselves; for if you keep on doing these things you will by no means ever fail.” (If the individuals were predestinated to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individuals, it must be the group that is foreordained.)

How unloving and unjust God would be if before we were born, he predetermined the course we would take and then held us responsible for our actions! He does not do this, for “God is love,” and “all his ways are justice.” (1 John 4:8; Deuteronomy 32:4) Having given us freedom of choice, he did not at the same time ‘determine from eternity whom he would save and whom he would damn,’ as believers in predestination assert. Freedom of choice precludes predestination.

The Bible clearly shows that the choices we make will alter our course. For example, God appeals to wrongdoers, saying: “Turn back, please, every one from his bad way and from the badness of your dealings . . . that I may not cause calamity to you.” (Jeremiah 25:5, 6) Why would God ask people to repent and turn around if he knew beforehand that they could do absolutely nothing to change their destiny?

 

[Brother Mike]

The Bible clearly shows that the choices we make will alter our course. For example, God appeals to wrongdoers, saying: “Turn back, please, every one from his bad way and from the badness of your dealings . . . that I may not cause calamity to you.” (Jeremiah 25:5, 6) Why would God ask people to repent and turn around if he knew beforehand that they could do absolutely nothing to change their destiny?

I think you will find that saying "Why would God warn people to turn around if God predestined them to fail, or had Foreknowledge they would already fail."

Is far to simple for religious people to grasp. Religion has blinded people and set them in the land where common sense and knowledge of God eludes them.

God only deals with a mans heart. Not through foreknowledge or Predestination. What is the current condition of the heart NOW.

God has no foreknowledge of our failure, other wise He lied here.

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
(Jer 29:11)

Now you can't have thoughts of peace and good things for someone, knowing (They will) or causing them to fail.

 

[By Grace]

I agree with Deborah that Romans 8:28,29 is talking about a group of people not individuals.
<SNIP>
Freedom of choice precludes predestination.

The history of the Bible does not agree with that

Cain killed Abel because Cane was a profane man See Jude
Pharaoh hardened his heart, and God permitted that hardness to grow until it caused the death of his first born son.
God called Egypt to place Israel into slavery for 400 years, then He punished Egypt for their sins against the chosen people of God.
Predestination and free will are not incompatible. As free moral agents, we all have to face the consequences of our actions. even if we are God's Elect

The Bible clearly shows that the choices we make will alter our course. For example, God appeals to wrongdoers, saying: “Turn back, please, every one from his bad way and from the badness of your dealings . . . that I may not cause calamity to you.” (Jeremiah 25:5, 6) Why would God ask people to repent and turn around if he knew beforehand that they could do absolutely nothing to change their destiny?

God cannot turn and "wink His eye at sin". ALL sins must be atoned for. People choose to go to hell because they openly reject the only means of salvation, and that is the acceptance of the Atonement as seen in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for their personal sins.