Purgatory

[Solo]

The New Creature that is born again by the Spirit of God does not sin.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

The flesh is sold under sin, and each believer has a war within between the sinful flesh and the righteous New Creature (the inward man born of God).

so i guess judas didnt have to worry about sin? or you can sin all you want and it doesnt matter because your"born again"

Judas was not born again. Judas was selected by Jesus Christ to be one of the twelve so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

• 23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me. 24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. 25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said. Matthew 26:23-25

There are two people in the Bible who are called the “Son of Perdition,†Judas and the Antichrist!!

• 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:11-12

It would have been better for Judas had he never been born.

• The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24

Judas was never born again because he did not believe that Jesus was LORD. Judas never calls Jesus LORD. He only calls Jesus teacher or rabbi. The disciple Thomas did not believe and was not born again until after Jesus' resurrection. Thomas did not believe until after Jesus was resurrected. After feeling Jesus' wounds, Thomas declared that Jesus was LORD GOD.

• 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:26-29

As info, you failed to answer my previous question:

In your thinking, what enters into purgatory, your soul or your body or both?

sorry , i over looked its been like 5 on one so some stuff mike take long. besides the fact that most of the "saved" will be there
your body resurects at the end of time.... maybe you could address the bible verses i said at first? just a thought

According to Pauls letter to the Corinthians, the resurrected body is raised incorruptable and immortal at the coming of Jesus Christ. The change of the body being made incorruptible and immortal from the former corrupt and mortal occurs in the twinkling of an eye. Those that are born again at Jesus' coming will be raised directly to be with Jesus Christ, and those who were asleep in Christ Jesus will be resurrected without the stain of sin.

• 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

 

[francisdesales]

Biblecatholic,

Remember that Abraham was declared righteous upon his belief (Romans 4:1-3) then works spring forth from the heart transplant of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:1-10). To God be the glory for our salvation and sanctification.

Romans 4:5, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.."
GMS

GMS,

I think it is easy to relegate faith to some "uber" role in our salvation... However, works are also important and I don't think one is saved without faith working in love (Galatians 5). Regarding Abraham, check out what James says -

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:20-22

The context is, I believe, that faith and works go together and both are necessary for one to be truly justified in God's eyes. As BibleCatholic has posted already, there are verses that condemn dead faith. A living faith, one with works (ALWAYS a result of the One who abides within us!) is necessary to be justified. Paul also states this - esp. see 1 Cor 13:2 or Gal 5:6

Regards

 

[Solo]

Faith on Jesus Christ is the foundation on which those who are born again, born of God build their house with works. Works come after being born again, and their are works of gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and stubble. Those works will be made manifest, tried by fire; those works which remain will reap reward for the believer, while those works that are of the flesh will be destroyed, yet the believer will be saved.

• 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

James was correct in his teaching that without works, their is no faith in Jesus Christ. Those who have been born again have works, and those who have no faith in Jesus Christ have no works. The Scripture is quite clear that salvation is of faith and not of works, yet works follow those who are saved by faith; however, once we are born again, born of God, we are created unto good works; for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, fore ordained that we should walk in them.

• 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

 

[golfjack]

reply

Teaching things like Purgatory and water baptism saves are very destructive to say the least. I have a saying that says, it's not important what church you are in. The important thing is: What family are you in? The New Birth is a necessity to being saved. Through the New Birth you come into the right relationship to God. The New Birth is necessary before you can claim any of the benefits of the Bible.

The New Birth is not: confirmation, church membership, water baptism, the taking of sacraments, observing religious duties, an intellectual reception of Christianity, orthodoxy of faith, going to church, saying prayers, being cultured or refined, doing good deeds, doing your best, nor any of the many other things some men are trusting in to save them.

Therefore, it is all important that we pay personal attention to our eternal welfare, and that we not trust the best men in the matter. If we permit men to mislead us in eternal matters and are lost, it will be too late to personally see after our welfare. Do something about it now.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[biblecatholic]

Re: reply

Teaching things like Purgatory and water baptism saves are very destructive to say the least.

you shouldnt have a problem with "teachings" because they are interpretations. and you think one is open to freely interpret as long as You pray to the Holy Spirit.

The New Birth is not: confirmation, church membership, water baptism, the taking of sacraments, observing religious duties, an intellectual reception of Christianity, orthodoxy of faith, going to church, saying prayers, being cultured or refined, doing good deeds, doing your best, nor any of the many other things some men are trusting in to save them.

orthodoxy of faith is important because it means right teaching, you dont want to teach wrong ones.all those things are important. first because their in the bible. second they are taught by the pillar and foundation. they were around before the bible...just because your personal private interpretation doesnt agree. the trusting in men thing would apply to you because you trust yourself and teachings that most wernt ever thought of. through the church Christ founded He has guarded the TRUTH.not the church founded by a man on every corner.

Therefore, it is all important that we pay personal attention to our eternal welfare, and that we not trust the best men in the matter. If we permit men to mislead us in eternal matters and are lost, it will be too late to personally see after our welfare. Do something about it now.

which person is preaching ALL the truth? so i can follow him. there is only one church that says they have the "ALL TRUTH" and that same church goes back to the time of Christ that church put the bible together, hand copied it for centuries. this church is the Catholic church.

what church would you belong to if you lived 1000 yrs ago? and would you be saved because you personal interpretation did not exist at that time?

 

[biblecatholic]

Solo,golfjack,
to get back on track. set up a couple treads and we'll discuss, born again, faith alone, authority, and anything else. we're geting into alot of stuff and im trying to help people understand the interpretation of purgatory...

Not having any responsibility for what we do as sinners and what we don’t do. Not having to suffer and try to be perfect, just worrying about faith and thinking since im “born again†I can in no way to damage our relationship with the Lord is very enticing, especially for spoiled, gluttonous, fast-food, "gimme everything right now," self-obsessed Americans. Who wants to suffer more? Ah, but the only slight problem with this natural desire is that the Bible talks constantly of suffering as a means of attaining to holiness and wisdom. How quickly we forget the book of Job and all of St. Paul's intense sufferings (and he says to "imitate" him).

Even in the glorious, fabulous passage of Romans 8, where Paul is all excited about the Holy Spirit and how He helps us overcome all obstacles, what does he also say? He is going along, talking like a good "born again," sanctified, set-free, "filled with the Holy Ghost" evangelical Protestant, and then suddenly (unless one ignores this part,) he becomes a morbid, masochistic, crucifix-clutching Catholic and takes away everyone's fun and peaches and cream:

. . . if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [yippeeeeee!!!!!!!], PROVIDED we SUFFER WITH him IN ORDER that we may also be glorified with him. (Rom 8:17; RSV)

The souls in purgatory are spirits without bodies, so the suffering is a spiritual, "mental" chastisement from God (a very common biblical theme) in order to purify us and make us holy, not physical torture. It will involve an anguish at our sin and sorrow and contrition over it, and the painful desire to attain to that holiness which God has ultimately called us to.

But the suffering is accompanied also by great joy and hope (greater, in fact, than any in this life), because the soul in purgatory is already saved by virtue of being there (that's where the real "eternal security" can be had, at long last). He or she is being prepared -- made fit -- for heaven.


Solo on the works issue. Just because you faith in Jesus it doesn't automatically make you do works.

 

[GMS]

GMS,

I think it is easy to relegate faith to some "uber" role in our salvation... However, works are also important and I don't think one is saved without faith working in love (Galatians 5). Regarding Abraham, check out what James says -

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:20-22

The context is, I believe, that faith and works go together and both are necessary for one to be truly justified in God's eyes. As BibleCatholic has posted already, there are verses that condemn dead faith. A living faith, one with works (ALWAYS a result of the One who abides within us!) is necessary to be justified. Paul also states this - esp. see 1 Cor 13:2 or Gal 5:6

Regards

Francisdesales,

I believe the proof of ones God given faith (Ephesians 2:9) is that works will be present or they are not truly saved. So, faith (alone) is the indicator as with Abraham. He was declared righteous in Genesis 15:6 (before Genesis chapter 22) because of belief and the outpouring of this faith was the offering of his son Isaac. Thus faith always comes first and is paramount , example is spoken of in, 1John5:5, "Who is it that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God". Notice that once belief has occurred, it is a done deal. Now James chapter 2 can be considered in the right light, true works follow true faith and these works are also a work of God (Philippeans 2:13). God gets the glory.
GMS

 

[francisdesales]

I believe the proof of ones God given faith (Ephesians 2:9) is that works will be present or they are not truly saved. So, faith (alone) is the indicator as with Abraham.

No, faith ALONE is NOT the indicator, as James 2 tells us. WORKS is the indicator of our faith. Another thing to consider regarding works. Are they ALWAYS there? Hardly. Even the person who swears up and down that they are born again and saved and so forth MUST admit that from time to time, their works are not representative of their faith. John tells us that those who deny this are liars. Thus, good works of love are not ALWAYS present, even in the saved.

Works are not automatic. There is no "conveyor belt" that starts once we accept Jesus as our Savior and have faith in Him. They do NOT come by themselves. We must ACTIVELY CONTINUE to have faith in God. Thus, the theme of PERSEVERANCE! That is clear if you look carefully at what Jesus says regarding having faith in Him. He never says "he who BELIEVED in me will be saved". He says "he who BELIEVES (present tense) will be saved." Thus, even faith is not automatic. It is an ongoing endeavor.

He was declared righteous in Genesis 15:6 (before Genesis chapter 22) because of belief and the outpouring of this faith was the offering of his son Isaac. Thus faith always comes first and is paramount , example is spoken of in, 1John5:5, "Who is it that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God". Notice that once belief has occurred, it is a done deal. Now James chapter 2 can be considered in the right light, true works follow true faith and these works are also a work of God (Philippeans 2:13). God gets the glory.

He was declared righteous by his WORKS by James. Also, he was declared righteous in Genesis 12. Yes, faith comes first. No doubt. But as your very own verse admits "He who overcometh ...and believeth..." Again, present tense words.

As to God getting the glory, we never deny that. We are servants who deserve nothing - but receive God's graces thankfully.

Regards

 

[GMS]

He was declared righteous by his WORKS by James. Also, he was declared righteous in Genesis 12. Yes, faith comes first. No doubt. But as your very own verse admits "He who overcometh ...and believeth..." Again, present tense words.

As to God getting the glory, we never deny that. We are servants who deserve nothing - but receive God's graces thankfully.

Regards

You do not seem to get my meaning or the Word's meaning. Abraham was considered righteous in Genesis 15:6 long before he offered up Isaac in Genesis 22. In respect to 1 John 5:5, he who overcomes (ie. everything the Law requires) is he who believes in Jesus. Thus the verse is saying Jesus did all that is required. Anything we do, is God working through us; works He predetermined before the foundation of the earth (Ephesians 2:10). All those who truly belong to Him will have fruit.This is what James is talking about in chapter 2.
GMS

 

[Solo]

Solo,golfjack,
to get back on track. set up a couple treads and we'll discuss, born again, faith alone, authority, and anything else. we're geting into alot of stuff and im trying to help people understand the interpretation of purgatory...

My previous post is directly related whether a place such as purgatory exists or not, and the Scripture that I posted shows the lie of purgatory. Be careful, for we know who the father of lies is.

• 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

The alive in Christ Jesus do not go to purgatory when He comes, and those asleep in Christ do not go to purgatory as they go to be with Christ immediately upon their resurrection at His return.

The soul of the born again, born of God goes to Christ at the moment that one dies. Stephen is one such example in Acts.

• 54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:54-60

 

[francisdesales]

You do not seem to get my meaning or the Word's meaning. Abraham was considered righteous in Genesis 15:6 long before he offered up Isaac in Genesis 22.

Consider the author of Hebrews below:

By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he abode in the land, dwelling in cottages, with Isaac and Jacob, the co-heirs of the same promise. For he looked for a city that hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God. By faith also Sara herself, being barren, received strength to conceive seed, even past the time of age; because she believed that he was faithful who had promised, For which cause there sprung even from one (and him as good as dead) as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. All these died according to faith, not having received the promises, but beholding them afar off, and saluting them, and confessing that they are pilgrims and strangers on the earth. For they that say these things, do signify that they seek a country. And truly if they had been mindful of that from whence they came out, they had doubtless time to return. But now they desire a better, that is to say, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered Isaac: and he that had received the promises, offered up his only begotten son; Hebrews 11:8-18

The author doesn't make any distinction between what happened in Genesis 12 and Genesis 22. During each moment, Abraham acted by faith. That is key. ACTED. IN FAITH. Again, faith working. Faith is not dead here. Abraham didn't just make some sort of faith declaration and went on with his life. He picked up everything and moved to the land that God had set aside. By faith, he acted. Thus, as the Scriptures tell us, Abraham was justified in Genesis 12, 17, and 22. In each of these moments, Abraham acted in faith.

In respect to 1 John 5:5, he who overcomes (ie. everything the Law requires) is he who believes in Jesus. Thus the verse is saying Jesus did all that is required.

You are presuming to add that. It doesn't say that "Jesus did all that is required". You said that. IF Jesus did all that is required, then ALL men would be saved. Obviously, not all men are saved...

Anything we do, is God working through us; works He predetermined before the foundation of the earth (Ephesians 2:10). All those who truly belong to Him will have fruit.This is what James is talking about in chapter 2.

Naturally, we can do no good without God. However, Phil 2:12-13 shows that we DO cooperate in some respect to God's graces. If we didn't, how could we grieve the Holy Spirit? How could we reject His gifts?

James is telling us that faith alone doesn't save. He clearly says that several times. He isn't talking about fruit. He never mentions that. He says that without works of love, you won't be saved...

What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? James 2:14

Of course, the rhetorical question is always answered with a "NO".

Thus, the Bible says that faith alone does not save. Anyone who teaches that is teaching in contradiction to Scripture.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Without Faith, there would be no works.

Faith comes before works.

Abraham's faith provided the impetus for performing good works as Ephesians 2:8-10 declare this truth perfectly clear.

 

[GMS]

francisdesales,
As I have wrote in previous responses true faith precedes true works. Through faith was the catalyst that enabled Abraham to be able to obey and want to obey. This is why he is included in the Hebrews passage. Would you please consider Romans 3: 21-28 and Romans 4:1-5 and harmonize it with this Hebrew passage and James. If you cannot, I will probably not be able to persuade you in my understanding of justification and sanctification. I only ask that you prayerfully consider what exactly Jesus accomplished for you personally on the Cross. Obviously, if one believes in a purgatory, he does not believe Jesus did it all in regards to the demands of the Law and we are still condemned by it, thus a need for purgatory.

 

[Jeffrey1188]

Just a thought... if purgetory were real.... don't you think it would be directly mentioned atleast in one place in the bible. You can take many things out of context to make the bible say what you want.... the truth is that its just something to make people feel good, an idea of man, not something created by god.

=/

 

[francisdesales]

Just a thought... if purgetory were real.... don't you think it would be directly mentioned atleast in one place in the bible. You can take many things out of context to make the bible say what you want.... the truth is that its just something to make people feel good, an idea of man, not something created by god.

=/

Jeff,

The state of purgatory is mentioned in the Scriptures - in 2 Maccabees.

As to something being mentioned as a requirement, what about the Trinity? It is not mentioned, but the concept is found in Scripture. The same with a third state of existence.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Without Faith, there would be no works.

Faith comes before works.

Abraham's faith provided the impetus for performing good works as Ephesians 2:8-10 declare this truth perfectly clear.

Solo,

I agree, without faith, there is no works.

And without works of love, faith is dead - says James and Paul. Both components are integral to eternal salvation.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Without Faith, there would be no works.

Faith comes before works.

Abraham's faith provided the impetus for performing good works as Ephesians 2:8-10 declare this truth perfectly clear.

Solo,

I agree, without faith, there is no works.

And without works of love, faith is dead - says James and Paul. Both components are integral to eternal salvation.

Regards

Thanks for the agreement.

It is my understanding that without the faith which is the foundation of our salvation, there can not be any works of love. In other words, the works of love do not play a part in our salvation, but our faith in Jesus Christ is our salvation, and since we are saved, we are able to accomplish works of love. Therefore the works of love do not save us, but are God's workmanship of those whom He saves through the faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

As I have wrote in previous responses true faith precedes true works.

Hmm. Perhaps by a few seconds....

When Abram decided to set out to Palestine, obviously, faith in God led Him to act upon what God commanded. But in the end, if Abram did not leave Ur, what sort of faith would he have had? Thus, faith AND works of love are necessary for Abram to have been considered to have been righteous. From my reading of Scriptures, God EXPECTS men to react to Him positively. Not just have good thoughts. He expects us to take action. Not that these acts save us. But we are not saved by merely thinking about how much we love God...

We need to put our money where our mouth is, to use a modern euphemism. As James clearly tells us, even the devil has faith in God. But it is meaningless. James chastizes Christians who see the poor at the Eucharist and treat them shabbily. What good is faith if one treats the poor badly? This is the gist of James 2. We must show our faith BY our works of love. Otherwise, it is dead - and dead faith CANNOT save. Paul says faith without love is worthless...

I think the message is clear. Saying "Lord, Lord" is just not enough...

Through faith was the catalyst that enabled Abraham to be able to obey and want to obey. This is why he is included in the Hebrews passage. Would you please consider Romans 3: 21-28 and Romans 4:1-5 and harmonize it with this Hebrew passage and James. If you cannot, I will probably not be able to persuade you in my understanding of justification and sanctification. I only ask that you prayerfully consider what exactly Jesus accomplished for you personally on the Cross. Obviously, if one believes in a purgatory, he does not believe Jesus did it all in regards to the demands of the Law and we are still condemned by it, thus a need for purgatory.

I do appreciate your reaching out to me. Please understand that we have some basic disagreements, or at least misunderstandings, on some very basic definitions. Thus, it appears that we will talk past each other. However, in the years I have been discussing these issues with my brother Protestants, I have found that after we get past definitions, that we do indeed believe in more similar things then we once thought. That is my experience. Our idea of justification and sanctification and salvation differ. Thus, we are going to be beating our heads into the wall trying to explain ourselves until we understand these basic differences.

Believe me, I, as a Catholic, do realize that what Jesus has done for me is vitally important for my own salvation. I do understand what He has done for me. However, His actions CONTINUE. I do not consider that His work is done in me, because I often falter. I often sin. And it is only His abiding presence that leads me to call upon Him and beg for forgiveness. He continues to intercede for me, as the Scriptures relate. Without His sacrifice on the cross, I wouldn't have a chance. Purgatory is an opportunity for me to become purified if I am not in this life. It is based upon the mercy of Christ and His sacrifice. "Nothing unclean shall enter heaven". That includes me and my sinful desires that even Paul admits to have had.

I don't have to be perfect in this world. Christ will provide for me a place to become purified.

Regards

 

[Veritas]

francisdesales wrote:
I don't have to be perfect in this world. Christ will provide for me a place to become purified.

I'm hoping for a ZAP, you're pure! kind of thing when He comes back.

I think its supported better in scripture too of course. ;)

"Behold, I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last Trump: for the Trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1 Corinthians 15:51-52


What does it say in 2 Maccabees?

 

[biblecatholic]

My previous post is directly related whether a place such as purgatory exists or not, and the Scripture that I posted shows the lie of purgatory. Be careful, for we know who the father of lies is

first of all the father of lies has created division in between the churches and let people make up their own interpretation of the Word {2 peter 3:16}there and make up their own doctrines even satan quotes ps 91:11-12 in matt 4:6.

• 
  

  51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

The alive in Christ Jesus do not go to purgatory when He comes, and those asleep in Christ do not go to purgatory as they go to be with Christ immediately upon their resurrection at His return.

the key is this is at His return.the end

at the end of time there is no more purgatory. this verse has to do with the end of time. so your private interpretation is wrong.

The soul of the born again, born of God goes to Christ at the moment that one dies. Stephen is one such example in Acts.

• 54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:54-60

are you like him, st stephen went strait to heaven doesnt mean we will. you have to take the entire bible cover to cover in context ,not 2 pet 3:16 it