Qualifications For Rapture?

[XTruth]

The Lord teaches us that we will be Raptured. Study Daniel's prophecy and correlate it with all others. You don't have to believe it. I do. It isn't dangerous!

It doesn't affect salvation, or one's consecration to the will of God or one's relationship with the living Christ.

Stop being offended by what people believe concerning eschatology. It has no bearing on one's walk with God.

I do agree with the stance you are using on one hand. I do understand why you say this, but in fact, the rapture and 2nd advent do effect the salvation of many.... not what you believe about them, but that you believe they are coming and we must always be ready. They are a call to holiness, a call to keep following daily so that you do not become the evil servant who says in his heart that his Lord delays His coming and starts living in sin (drunk and abusive as the parable goes).

That is the point of the original post that was completely side stepped by everyone. Sin does condemn ALL w/o respecter of persons, so fear God b/c He must judge all w/ unrepented sin the same; therefore, be holy, for the Lord your God is holy (1 Pt.1:13-17; 4:1, 17-19).

I hope you all know what I am saying... and right on with your posts Alabaster!

 

[Sinthesis]

I believe this site:

The Mark Of The Beast

addresses all the issues surrounding the "mark of the beast" quite well.

As noted from the verses I cited in Romans, even in the 1st century, God was selecting a remnant of Israel that would survive His wrath, just as He had done in every prior outpouring of it before.

I don't believe God is finished with Israel, and I do believe that puts me at odds with a full-preterist view. But also as I wrote, I'm not a preterist: I just take God at His word.

You would have to discuss that with a full preterist. I can't speak for them or their views.

You're right that God was selecting a remnant to come through the tribulation of the Romans, but this remnant is divided into two camps. Those with the seal of Jesus' name on their foreheads by definition also have the name of the Father. They are Christians and are the 144K. One cannot be sealed with the name of Christ and not be a Christian, which is why your interpretation of the 'elect 144K remnant' fails. Those with only the name of the Father are not Christians; they are devout Jews. They also came through the tribulation and eventually became the Judaism of today. Those with neither the name of the Son or Father fell during the tribulation.

Rev 14:1 - Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 - And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps.
Rev 14:3 - And they [!] [fn]sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.
Rev 14:4 - These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they [fn]have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 - And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.(NASB)​

 

[Lehigh3]

I believe this site:

The Mark Of The Beast

addresses all the issues surrounding the "mark of the beast" quite well.

As noted from the verses I cited in Romans, even in the 1st century, God was selecting a remnant of Israel that would survive His wrath, just as He had done in every prior outpouring of it before.

I don't believe God is finished with Israel, and I do believe that puts me at odds with a full-preterist view. But also as I wrote, I'm not a preterist: I just take God at His word.

Yes, i had no "end-time' stance & took God's word for it too for 18 yrs.- received many spiritual gifts I believe- then I heard some preacher on tv say something about a beast or a monster. I thought he was talking about Dante's inferno or something bc the channel was just on in another room I wasn't occupying.
But with closer attention to it, I realized he was serious! "millennium kingdom, armageddon, Day of the Lord & Second coming!" All miserable stuff! I felt betrayed. This wasn't the Christianity that I knew that conquered the devil- that freed me of many "demons"

I couldn't go on!!! Thankfully a wonderful preterist answer a question for me on a general religion website. He told me about AD70. I had read through Revelation before but it had always look in the past tense & symbolic of good over evil. But who knew. I'm thankful to that preterist bc I may have gotten those "demons" back if it wasn't for his intervention! God is good.

Anyway. I believe modern Israel has no more favor than Islam or any unsaved group.

And an answer about modern Israel is on the same site you posted.

1Tim1:4 Paul told Timothy not to give heed to endless genealogies & those Jewish genealogical records would all be burned in Herod's temple too in AD70. And Jewish fables 1Tim.4:7- oh, those Judaizers were such a thorn!
Have a look.
Who Are God's Chosen People?

 

[Alabaster]

I do agree with the stance you are using on one hand. I do understand why you say this, but in fact, the rapture and 2nd advent do effect the salvation of many.... not what you believe about them, but that you believe they are coming and we must always be ready. They are a call to holiness, a call to keep following daily so that you do not become the evil servant who says in his heart that his Lord delays His coming and starts living in sin (drunk and abusive as the parable goes).

Which interpretation claims we don't need to be ready? As long as one is saved and seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and His righteousness above all else, what does it really matter?

That is the point of the original post that was completely side stepped by everyone. Sin does condemn ALL w/o respecter of persons, so fear God b/c He must judge all w/ unrepented sin the same; therefore, be holy, for the Lord your God is holy (1 Pt.1:13-17; 4:1, 17-19).

I hope you all know what I am saying... and right on with your posts Alabaster!

Thank you, XTruth!

Don't you think that, say, out of 1000 born again Christians who die, there are a proportion of them who are going out into eternity with some unrepented, even unknown sin on them? As the redeemed do not stand in the GWT judgment, how do you reconcile this?

 

[n2thelight]

I respect your opinion but I don't buy it not one bit. I just know it is false teaching. I can't articulate how I know but every part of my being knows it is a very dangerous theory. I want to fight the battle here! that is what I feel I am meant to do.

Amen,I couldn't agree with you more.........When satan comes pretending to be Christ,all those who believe in a rapture will be deceived.....

 

[Alabaster]

Amen,I couldn't agree with you more.........When satan comes pretending to be Christ,all those who believe in a rapture will be deceived.....

How is that? Ridiculous. Pre-trib believers aren't morons. We are Christians who run the gamut of spiritual maturity just like believers of other eschatological interpretations.

It is only those who reject pre-Trib who call people deceived, amongst other things. Have you noticed that? Why the animus?

 

[XTruth]

Which interpretation claims we don't need to be ready? As long as one is saved and seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and His righteousness above all else, what does it really matter?

Thank you, XTruth!

Don't you think that, say, out of 1000 born again Christians who die, there are a proportion of them who are going out into eternity with some unrepented, even unknown sin on them? As the redeemed do not stand in the GWT judgment, how do you reconcile this?[/B]

That is a great question!

I'll direct you to the answer; with that answer you will better be ab le to SEE the original post.

I'm not directing you to a website that portrays anothers work b/c I feel like they can better explain what I believe. I am going to direct you to a book on a website that has five free online books that all explain this simple answer, but it is my site and those are my books.

"Once Saved, Always Saved" Destroying A Doctrine Of Demons -  Salvation Books

1) The Billions Who Lost Salvation
From Genesis Through Revelation


2) Eternal Laws From God
And Christian Warnings



3) Eternal Security's Evidence,
Conditional Salvation's Verdict



4) Tough Christian Questions,
Tough Biblical Answers



5) The Lost Pillars of
Conditional Salvation



An easy one to find exactly what answer you have would be book NUMBER 4.
Here is the table of content:




INTRODUCTION………………………………………………………………………...5
1. What is a Christian according to Scripture?............................................................6
2. Isn't everyone a Christian that professes Christ?...................................................14
3. What are the 3 "deaths" of Scripture?....................................................................23
4. Can one be born again more than once?................................................................30
5. Once you're a child of God, aren’t you always a child of God?............................42
6. Can names be taken out of the book of life?..........................................................51
7. Can the Holy Spirit be taken from you?................................................................70
8. Doesn't the seal of the Spirit mean I'm always saved no matter what?.................76
9. What happens when the righteous sin?..................................................................82
10. Isn't everyone's righteousness as filthy rags in God's sight?..................................87
11. Didn't God say He would never forsake me? .......................................................93
12. Aren't all my past, present and future sins forgiven?.............................................99
13. How far does grace go?........................................................................................111
14. Doesn't the Bible say that nothing can separate me from God because I'm in His
hand?....................................................................................................................121
15. Doesn't the Bible say that nothing can separate me from God’s love?................125
16. Can a believer go to hell, or is hell just for unbelievers?.....................................129
17. I heard salvation is faith alone, what about our works? ………………………..138
18. Is obedience necessary for salvation?..................................................................148
19. Aren't we all still sinners?....................................................................................158
4
20. Wasn't Paul still struggling with sin and falling short?.......................................166
21. Wasn't David a man after God's own heart, a murderer and an adulterer, yet still
saved?...................................................................................................................172
22. Are homosexual Christians saved? What about straight Christians who
fornicate?..............................................................................................................185
23. What is the unforgiveable sin? …………………………………………………191
24. Isn't it true that a person must have never been saved if they fall back into a life of
sin?.......................................................................................................................196
25. Are we supposed to be perfect? Isn’t that legalism? …………………………...210
26. What's the difference between an apostate and a backslider? ............................218
27. Are there worse sins than others or are they all the same?..................................228
28. Can you still operate in Spiritual giftings and be condemned?...........................241
29. Are there any specific examples of lost salvations?............................................248
30. What about predestination and what exactly is that?...........................................256
31. What about sanctification and what exactly is that?............................................265
32. Doesn't God promise eternal life by putting your faith in Jesus?........................269
33. Are there really conditions to all God's promises and blessings...even
salvation?.............................................................................................................277
34. How were people saved in the Old Testament?...................................................286
35. Why is the Old Testament used as an example to Christians when it is before
Christ?..................................................................................................................302
CONCLUSION…………………………………………………………………………312

 

[Alabaster]

I would much rather you answer from your own heart in your own words.

 

[warhorse]

Tribulation simply means trouble and we are promised it as King's kids. There is no getting around it!

But THE Tribulation we are all talking about is not the ordinary run-of-the-mill tribulation we all experience. This is The time of Jacob's Trouble, such as the world has never seen before---Jesus says so. We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist. That time is meant for the wicked and is a time set aside for God to finish with Israel.

Yes but for this discussion here we are talking about a specific set of events, the tribulation of the saints as described by Jesus in math 24, mark 13, and luke 21, or the seven vials of gods wrath. Your position presumes that the tribulation is the wrath of God, But it is not stated as such biblicly. And does not match when comparing events.
I do not argue that the church will feel the lords wrath, only that the tribulation is not Gods wrath on the earth, but satens wrath on the church. Remember abrahams seed was still in egypt when God set the plagues on the egyptians. They were not removed until they had the full witness of Gods power and authority. Now we as christians are Abrahams seed and remain here to be a witness of Gods Love and Grace through the peril.
God did not remove heshack, meshack and abednego from the fire, he joined them and preserved them in it. And countless other stories bear out the same habit of gods Grace as nearly 47 mill have been martered to date, what of there faith. If we are to be taken up, why were they left behind.

 

[Alabaster]

The Church will not be here for the Tribulation. It is meant for Israel.

Jeremiah 30:7 NLT
In all history there has never been such a time of terror.
It will be a time of trouble for my people Israel.
Yet in the end they will be saved!

 

[taromina2003]

The Church will not be here for the Tribulation. It is meant for Israel.

Jeremiah 30:7 NLT
In all history there has never been such a time of terror.
It will be a time of trouble for my people Israel.
Yet in the end they will be saved!

Yes! the awsome LORD made a covenant with Israel, he will never abandom them! I mean think about how this tiny little country surrounded by their enemies is able to last as mighty as they have it is a miracle.

 

[Alabaster]

Yes! the awsome LORD made a covenant with Israel, he will never abandom them! I mean think about how this tiny little country surrounded by their enemies is able to last as mighty as they have it is a miracle.

Yes it is a mighty miracle of God--out of His extreme love and commitment to keeping to his own word!

 

[n2thelight]

Just curious to know, how can there be qualifications for something that will not happen.....

 

[Alabaster]

Just curious to know, how can there be qualifications for something that will not happen.....

The Bible teaches that it will.

 

[n2thelight]

Let me ask a question.Why are you all(rapturist) afraid of the wrath of God,if you belong to Him?My Father can and will protect His own. Another question,do you even know what the wrath of God is? Do you even know what the tribulation is?

My Father told me to endure till the end not seek to run away for he who seeks to save his life will lose it Luke 9:24 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it."With all of this past and present persecutions of Christains I find it very very hard to believe that Chritains who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truely believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture.

Guess my question is why do you think you all will be spared when no one else has been? Why are you all special?Let me take the time to show what will be happening to Christains who know the truth during the tribulation,and trust me they won't be trying to fly away,they will be doing the work of the Lord,like I said,until the end. Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them." Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

Can you understand whats happening here,this is during the time of the anti christ,the tribulation of satan,if you are one of the Elect,you will be broght before satan,it will be at this time that the true speaking of tongues shall happen again,because the Holy Spirit will be speaking through you.

During his reign satan cannot touch God's elect Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them [Satan and his fallen angels] that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads." (you all will be gone,but those that know the truth will still be here) Give me a break.

Luke 21:18 "But there shall not an hair of your head perish." Again satan can't touch you,but people will be killed,but it will be at the hands of those who think they are working for God John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." satan however will kill the two witneses,against God 's orders,it is at this time that you can know when Christ will return,because it will be within the hour after the two witneses rise.Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Do you all even know who these seven thousand are? Let me say this,those of you who are waiting on the rapture,will be deceived,because you no not the truth,and God will allow you to believe that lie,do you no what lie?well let me tell you,that satan is Christ. These verses from thess are written to you(rapturist)and all others who no not the truth II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth," II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [send them a working of error], that they should believe a lie;"

Now if you go back to verse 3,Paul told you when we will gather back to Christ,and that is only after the anti christ has been revealed II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" The falling away is from the truth,and this rapture that you all are waiting for is not the truth.

Christians don't run,we stand and fight...Im ready for satan and his army,for Im told not to fear him....The only thing that can happen to you is that you will be killed,why are you afraid?

1. Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
2. Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

So again I ask why are you all(rapturist)afraid of satan and his tribulation?

 

[Alabaster]

Let me ask a question.Why are you all(rapturist) afraid of the wrath of God,if you belong to Him?My Father can and will protect His own. Another question,do you even know what the wrath of God is? Do you even know what the tribulation is?

Why would anyone who has a relationship with the King of kings be afraid of anything?

I believe in a Rapture and I am not afraid. God's wrath is not going to fall upon me. the Bride is not appointed to wrath. The Father would not cause the Bride of His son to suffer His wrath! Why would she? She is spotless!

My Father told me to endure till the end not seek to run away for he who seeks to save his life will lose it Luke 9:24 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it."With all of this past and present persecutions of Christains I find it very very hard to believe that Chritains who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truely believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture.

What has America got to do with this? The Bible teaches that the time for the Great Tribulation is for Israel, not the Church.

Guess my question is why do you think you all will be spared when no one else has been? Why are you all special?Let me take the time to show what will be happening to Christains who know the truth during the tribulation,and trust me they won't be trying to fly away,they will be doing the work of the Lord,like I said,until the end. Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them." Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

We will be spared because it is God's plan. We do not dictate when the end shall come. We are special because we are called to be born at this special time in God's plan.

People who do not walk closely with God now will find it very hard, if not impossible to walk with Him when the pressure is on after the Church has gone.

Can you understand whats happening here,this is during the time of the anti christ,the tribulation of satan,if you are one of the Elect,you will be broght before satan,it will be at this time that the true speaking of tongues shall happen again,because the Holy Spirit will be speaking through you.

The Elect won't be here. Those who have never accepted Jesus, or who had a mere mental assent to Him will be left behind to suffer these things.

During his reign satan cannot touch God's elect Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them [Satan and his fallen angels] that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads." (you all will be gone,but those that know the truth will still be here) Give me a break.

The 'elect' in that sense, is Israel. The 'locusts' were not demons, nor Satan, but beings sent by God to torment the wicked on earth---only.

Luke 21:18 "But there shall not an hair of your head perish." Again satan can't touch you,but people will be killed,but it will be at the hands of those who think they are working for God John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." satan however will kill the two witneses,against God 's orders,it is at this time that you can know when Christ will return,because it will be within the hour after the two witneses rise.Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Do you all even know who these seven thousand are? Let me say this,those of you who are waiting on the rapture,will be deceived,because you no not the truth,and God will allow you to believe that lie,do you no what lie?well let me tell you,that satan is Christ. These verses from thess are written to you(rapturist)and all others who no not the truth II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth," II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [send them a working of error], that they should believe a lie;"

Now if you go back to verse 3,Paul told you when we will gather back to Christ,and that is only after the anti christ has been revealed II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" The falling away is from the truth,and this rapture that you all are waiting for is not the truth.

Yes, a lot of significant things will happen before the Second Coming of Christ. However, there is a Rapture of the Church, for the Church rides with Him when He comes.

1 Thessalonians 3:13 NKJV
so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Christians don't run,we stand and fight...Im ready for satan and his army,for Im told not to fear him....The only thing that can happen to you is that you will be killed,why are you afraid?

No we don't run. I don't know why you want to castigate Rapture believers as 'fraidy cats. We are victorious and strong and courageous to the end. I think it is a sin to declare Rapture believers as less than. Do you need to build up yourself? Try maintaining the unity we have in Christ as the Lord has commanded.

So again I ask why are you all(rapturist)afraid of satan and his tribulation?

People who make arguments using the words, "all you..." are what we call 'hurling', and it is a bad form of argument.

We aren't afraid of anything---at least I'm not. I simply believe the Lord and what He tells me in His wonderful word.

Let me ask you this: Is the Church of Jesus Christ so ineffective, weak and sickly that the Antichrist can get a leg up over us?

I should think not!

We have the authority of Christ to beat him down, don't we?

The reason why the Antichrist gains control over the world government and world religion is because his ONLY OPPOSITION is absent---the Holy Spirit filled Body of Christ!

 

[n2thelight]

Alabaster

Two questions

1 Why do you seperate the Church from Israel?

2 Do you understand who Israel is?....


At work,will respond to the rest of your post when I get home.......

 

[warhorse]

The Church will not be here for the Tribulation. It is meant for Israel.

Jeremiah 30:7 NLT
In all history there has never been such a time of terror.
It will be a time of trouble for my people Israel.
Yet in the end they will be saved!

ALabaster you are dodging here. most of your beliefs are well supported with scripture, why not this one? Because its not there. i spent 8 months reading the bible 8-10 hours a day looking for it, but it doesnt exist. We will be called up, but it will be to welcome in our new king here on earth, On the day of the lord.

 

[n2thelight]

The reason why the Antichrist gains control over the world government and world religion is because his ONLY OPPOSITION is absent---the Holy Spirit filled Body of Christ!

That's your biggest mistake,satan will gain control of the world for the simple,(yet complicated to most)reason that the whole world,except for the Elect,will think he is Christ....

In the 24th chapter of Matt.,Christ tells us everything that shall happen before His return,can you please show me where, the rapture is in that chapter.If you say this chapter is talking about His 2nd coming,meaning,the rapture happens before then,will you please explain,why He warns us about these things,if we are not going to be here?

 

[XTruth]

I would much rather you answer from your own heart in your own words.

Did you no understand that the website is mine and that I wrote tose books? They are written in my own words and from my heart.

I'm nt asking you to read through to find the answer. The table of contents from the book I recommended for you makes the answer as easy to find as anything. Though the answer to what happens to a redeemed person who sins and dies w/o repenting is most likely on every page in all 5 books in various forms all scripturally showing the same thing.

Simpy put, anything that was perfect or recreated perfect and then is blemished in he future is no longer perfect and must be made new again. If the redeemed in, then they ned to be deemed worth again by being redeemed again. What does born AGAIN mean? If something was made again or done again, then it must have been that way once before.