question for all christians

[DarcyLu]

being of the pentacostal persuasion, yes. the baptism is evidence of that. tounges isnt the word we use for that. that is for the church and needs to be interpretated.

the indivdual when praying in a unknown language is talking to God and him alone, and he is edifying himself. when its interpreted its for the whole church.

of course theres that argument that the gift of tounges is for the jew. maybe. but i think its also for the unbeliever as he may hear his own language beind spoken to him, if the person is being led to speak. this has happen at my old church yrs before i went there.

what if a person doesn't have evidence of that? does that mean they don't have the Holy Spirit, in your opinion?

the gift of tongues has to be for all believers, not just for the jews. and so are you saying there ae 2 kinds, the one of speaking different human languages and then the other one is speaking an unknown human language?

 

[DarcyLu]

I'm sorry, Jason. I didn't read this until I'd already answered Darcy's post.

I would like to restate the fact that I do believe God still heals people today, since there seems to be some misunderstanding about that. I thought I had made it clear. I have seen healings, myself...just not in the same way the signs and wonders were performed during the time of the Apostles. I was referring to the gifts...as I've stated before. We're to pray for the sick...I have never said otherwise.

i do understand what your beliefs are, i do know you know God heals. there are just some things that we don't agree on and i don't want to argue about it with you anymore as i get upset when i should not get upset, so i am sorry about the things i said to you - about "defeated life", etc. i shouldn't have attacked you like that.

Thank you, and I'm sorry I was short with you, too. Someday we will see things as they are and be in agreement on all things. I wonder what it will be like when that happens...All those "amens" and none of those "but what about's". It will be a change...that's for sure. :biglaugh

completely OT, but God is reminding me of scripture right now about how to treat others, do not fight with your brother, etc., thankfully He is teaching me and obviously not finished with me yet, but making progress at least.

 

[jasoncran]

the baptism yes, one can be saved and not have the baptism. and yes there are two types of languages. i would have dig up those verses. any other charasmatic may post those verses.

You dont get the baptism upon salvation. othewise why werer the apostles told to tarry in the upperroom?
you get the holy spirit,but not the indwelling. that is what the baptism is for.
is for the power to witness with authority and also to operate in the gifts.

 

[DarcyLu]

the baptism yes, one can be saved and not have the baptism. and yes there are two types of languages. i would have dig up those verses. any other charasmatic may post those verses.

You dont get the baptism upon salvation. othewise why werer the apostles told to tarry in the upperroom?
you get the holy spirit,but not the indwelling. that is what the baptism is for.
is for the power to witness with authority and also to operate in the gifts.

yes, i agree, we must also be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

i guess i wanted to know if your belief is, and you may have already answered this, but do you have to be able to speak in a prayer language, tongues or whatever you want to call it as evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

i don't believe that a person does, but that there is other evidence. and do you believe in the latter rain, that in the future the Holy Spirit will be poured out among the believers and great things will happen?

 

[jasoncran]

no, it must be evident as the indwelling occurs only then.

:crazy explaining this is almost as bad explaining the trinity.
we are in the latter rain, that the last days. you are referring to joel 2:28

 

[glorydaz]

no, it must be evident as the indwelling occurs only then.

:crazy explaining this is almost as bad explaining the trinity.
we are in the latter rain, that the last days. you are referring to joel 2:28

Yes, In fact, that scripture was fulfilled at Pentecost.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

 

[DarcyLu]

no, it must be evident as the indwelling occurs only then.

:crazy explaining this is almost as bad explaining the trinity.
we are in the latter rain, that the last days. you are referring to joel 2:28

sorry Jason, i simply wanted to understand your beliefs better.

i can get scripture together about the latter rain, the Holy Spirit will be poured out and great things will happen.

 

[jasoncran]

we are in the latter rain, unless you dont think that we arent in last days. and women and men dont prophecy and dream.

 

[glorydaz]

no, it must be evident as the indwelling occurs only then.

:crazy explaining this is almost as bad explaining the trinity.
we are in the latter rain, that the last days. you are referring to joel 2:28

sorry Jason, i simply wanted to understand your beliefs better.

i can get scripture together about the latter rain, the Holy Spirit will be poured out and great things will happen.

Great things happened at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out.

 

[Cornelius]

no, it must be evident as the indwelling occurs only then.

:crazy explaining this is almost as bad explaining the trinity.
we are in the latter rain, that the last days. you are referring to joel 2:28

sorry Jason, i simply wanted to understand your beliefs better.

i can get scripture together about the latter rain, the Holy Spirit will be poured out and great things will happen.

Great things happened at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out.

We know that the "rain" mentioned in Hosea is the Holy Spirit , because it speaks of "he". So we can know for sure its not talking about normal rain here. Then we are told that this rain comes twice . First as the "early rain" and then as the "latter rain" Hos 6:3 And let us know, let us follow on to know Jehovah: his going forth is sure as the morning; and he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth.

Hosea is specifically prophesying about the latter rain here, because we see he is talking about our times :Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him.
We know that a day is "as a thousand years" 2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. So when we translate Hosea using Peter's key we see : Hos 6:2 After two thousand years (after Christ) will he revive us: on the third day (after Christ) he will raise us (believers) up, and we shall live before him.

Then on that day (which are these days we live in) we see that the latter rain will be poured out. "HE" will then come unto us AS the rain, as the latter rain.Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain in just measure, and he causeth to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month. and we also see that in the New Testament we are told to wait patiently for it. And again, James confirms what Hosea is saying that it is indeed Jesus coming to us IN HIS PEOPLE (because its the fruit that is spoken of)Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain.

We have just entered the time in which this last part is about to be fulfilled.

 

[Cornelius]

We also know that God is the husbandman that waiteth for the fruit of the earth. Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain.

 

[Cornelius]

The fruit:

The fruit is what God is going to pick from the vine ]Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, ..... Joh 15:16 Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.

So there we have a Biblical perspective of how God sends the Holy Spirit as the rain: first as the early rain in the time of Jesus and then He will again send the Holy Spirit as the latter rain in our time, before He comes back on the clouds for us. This last anointing will be wonderful and great, because we will need it to go through the great tribulation. Hag 2:9 The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, saith Jehovah of hosts; and in this place will I give peace, saith Jehovah of hosts.

 

[DarcyLu]

We know that the "rain" mentioned in Hosea is the Holy Spirit , because it speaks of "he". So we can know for sure its not talking about normal rain here. Then we are told that this rain comes twice . First as the "early rain" and then as the "latter rain" Hos 6:3 And let us know, let us follow on to know Jehovah: his going forth is sure as the morning; and he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth.

Hosea is specifically prophesying about the latter rain here, because we see he is talking about our times :Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him.
We know that a day is "as a thousand years" 2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. So when we translate Hosea using Peter's key we see : Hos 6:2 After two thousand years (after Christ) will he revive us: on the third day (after Christ) he will raise us (believers) up, and we shall live before him.

Then on that day (which are these days we live in) we see that the latter rain will be poured out. "HE" will then come unto us AS the rain, as the latter rain.Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain in just measure, and he causeth to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month. and we also see that in the New Testament we are told to wait patiently for it. And again, James confirms what Hosea is saying that it is indeed Jesus coming to us IN HIS PEOPLE (because its the fruit that is spoken of)Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain.

We have just entered the time in which this last part is about to be fulfilled.

AMEN!!

 

[jasoncran]

We know that the "rain" mentioned in Hosea is the Holy Spirit , because it speaks of "he". So we can know for sure its not talking about normal rain here. Then we are told that this rain comes twice . First as the "early rain" and then as the "latter rain" Hos 6:3 And let us know, let us follow on to know Jehovah: his going forth is sure as the morning; and he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth.

Hosea is specifically prophesying about the latter rain here, because we see he is talking about our times :Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him.
We know that a day is "as a thousand years" 2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. So when we translate Hosea using Peter's key we see : Hos 6:2 After two thousand years (after Christ) will he revive us: on the third day (after Christ) he will raise us (believers) up, and we shall live before him.

Then on that day (which are these days we live in) we see that the latter rain will be poured out. "HE" will then come unto us AS the rain, as the latter rain.Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain in just measure, and he causeth to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month. and we also see that in the New Testament we are told to wait patiently for it. And again, James confirms what Hosea is saying that it is indeed Jesus coming to us IN HIS PEOPLE (because its the fruit that is spoken of)Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain.

We have just entered the time in which this last part is about to be fulfilled.

AMEN!!

so the apostle paul was wrong when he said that we are in the Last Days?

 

[Cornelius]

so the apostle paul was wrong when he said that we are in the Last Days?

I think you are speaking of this verse ?

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

We can see the plural of the word "ends" so the ASV translates this verse better:


1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul was indeed in the end of an age (it ended in 70AD) and we too are now again in the end of an age.So Paul was correct

 

[jasoncran]

so the apostle paul was wrong when he said that we are in the Last Days?

I think you are speaking of this verse ?

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

We can see the plural of the word "ends" so the ASV translates this verse better:


1Co 10:11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul was indeed in the end of an age (it ended in 70AD) and we too are now again in the end of an age.So Paul was correct

actually the book of hebrews. God in these last days and at sundry times hath revealed himself

 

[Cornelius]

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Same answer applies as in my previous post.

 

[Cornelius]

Heb 1:1 God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,
Heb 1:2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;

I prefer the ASV again here. We can see that Paul is speaking of "these days" . "These days" are the days of the prophets of old. At the end of "the days of the Old Testament prophets, God revealed His Son. That is how the Bible also records the event. It happened at the end of the age which is called "The Old Covenant"

So Paul was telling the truth.

 

[jasoncran]

when was hebrews written and some say that paul didnt write hebrews. the author isnt listed, but it has a pauline style.

 

[Cornelius]

when was hebrews written and some say that paul didnt write hebrews. the author isnt listed, but it has a pauline style.

Paul is accredited for writing Hebrews, but in reality it does not matter, because the message is ultimately from God and the meaning is still the same