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Questions of Morality

duari91

duari91

Member
Just asking a few questions to gather a discussion...

Question 1: Do modern day Jews go to hell (assuming there is a hell, and knowing they do not accept Jesus as their savior)

Question 2: IF you say they do, did the Jews who suffered in the holocaust go to hell as well?

Answer the questions, and explain why you believe it is/is not moral.
 
Do Greek Orthodox go to hell?
Russian Orthodox?
Zoroastrianists?
Shintoists?
Buddhists?
Hindus?
Baha'i?
Gnostics?
Jainists?
Siks?
UU?

No one knows for sure. All that matters is what YOU believe.
 
Answer it from the perspective of a bible believing Christian. If you don't believe Jesus is the only way, then you aren't speaking from the perspective of a Christian.

The point of the questions is to raise a discussion about morality.
 
God speaks of a faithful remnant throughout His Story (history). That faithful remnant, by being declared faithful and righteous by His word, would have to believe in His plan as Abraham did. Abraham did not know Jesus' name, but was faithful to believe God and by implication, believed that God had a plan of deliverance. It was the plan Abraham believed, that God was faithful to deliver as He had promised. Abraham was saved. I can't speak for the Jews of the holocaust, nor for modern day Jews. I don't know what each individual believed. But it can be faithfully assumed that if they had the same faith as Abraham, they are in heaven. No further discussion necessary. It's His decision, not our to make, or to speculate upon.
 
"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 ESV

"That whoever believes in him may have eternal life." John 3:15 ESV

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 ESV

These are just three verses, there are many, that say we must believe in Jesus as our Savior to be saved.
 
Assuming that Jesus IS the only way to heaven, and Jews reject Jesus, what would you say on the issue of morality?

Maybe something along the lines of God being a judge, justly punishing those who broke the law?

Or do you believe that it is inherently immoral to sentence such a fate?

Do you think that God could pardon a criminal, without a just reason, and still be morally correct?
 
duari91 said:
Assuming that Jesus IS the only way to heaven, and Jews reject Jesus, what would you say on the issue of morality?
Click to expand...
you're operating on the assumption that all Jews reject Jesus. That isn't true. There are the Messianic Jews, who believe that Christ is Messiah and who worship Him but also keep the Jewish traditions of the Sabbath and the Law. Does that render them unfaithful? No, it does not.

The Jewish people have the knowledge of Christ. The faithful remnant, as I said earlier, have the faith of Abraham. These, then, are saved. Morality is irrelevant, beyond the cause of Christ.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
you're operating on the assumption that all Jews reject Jesus. That isn't true. There are the Messianic Jews, who believe that Christ is Messiah and who worship Him but also keep the Jewish traditions of the Sabbath and the Law. Does that render them unfaithful? No, it does not.

The Jewish people have the knowledge of Christ. The faithful remnant, as I said earlier, have the faith of Abraham. These, then, are saved. Morality is irrelevant, beyond the cause of Christ.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should have used the statement, the Jews who reject Jesus. I assure you, my intention was not to generalize and put all Jews in the same category. Regardless, the questions still stand.

Furthermore, their is no biblical truth to your theory. If Jews were to operate under a completely different salvation system, Jesus as a Messiah would be completely irrelevant. Under that logic...the apostles would have partaken in an incorrect salvation method, seeing that they were in fact Jewish.

To make myself understand your position further, is it correct to say that you believe that God will pardon those who remain faithful to the old law, yet defy his sole method for salvation?

My stance is that Morality, and Justice shows that God CANNOT save those who deny the new covenant. Jesus provides a legal way for criminals to be set free. Otherwise, God, as a Just being, could not "save" us without being UNJUST. Which is also the reason why sin will not exist in heaven.

Thoughts?
 
duari91 said:
... their is no biblical truth to your theory. If Jews were to operate under a completely different salvation system,
Click to expand...
That is not a "separate salvation system." The righteousness of Abraham was reckoned to him as salvation. That is made clear in Genesis 15:6.

duari91 said:
To make myself understand your position further, is it correct to say that you believe that God will pardon those who remain faithful to the old law, yet defy his sole method for salvation?
Click to expand...
Again, it is not a separate method of salvation. Abraham is spoken of by Paul as the father of our faith. His is the same faith as ours.

duari91 said:
My stance is that Morality, and Justice shows that God CANNOT save those who deny the new covenant.
Click to expand...
My stance is that those who have the faith of Abraham have the same faith as we have.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
That is not a "separate salvation system." The righteousness of Abraham was reckoned to him as salvation. That is made clear in Genesis 15:6.

Again, it is not a separate method of salvation. Abraham is spoken of by Paul as the father of our faith. His is the same faith as ours.

My stance is that those who have the faith of Abraham have the same faith as we have.
Click to expand...

I understand, and am not necessarily refuting the faith of Abraham. I am merely stating that the death of Jesus then invalidated the method of salvation prior to his death. Basically nullifying the previous method that Abraham operated under. Abraham believed in the same God, but held a different standard of beliefs. Based on the word/instruction of God that he had to go by. Today, we wouldn't say, to follow in the steps of Abraham is a path to heaven. Instead, we say that Jesus is the path of heaven, because Jesus IS God, and stated so.

Is that not correct?
 
Question 1: Do modern day Jews go to hell (assuming there is a hell, and knowing they do not accept Jesus as their savior)
Click to expand...

If they knew about Jesus and yet reject Him as their savior, then they will go to Hell.

Question 2: IF you say they do, did the Jews who suffered in the holocaust go to hell as well?
Click to expand...

If they knew about Jesus and yet reject Him as their savior, then they will go to Hell.

Do Greek Orthodox go to hell?
Russian Orthodox?
Zoroastrianists?
Shintoists?
Buddhists?
Hindus?
Baha'i?
Gnostics?
Jainists?
Siks?
UU?
Click to expand...

If they knew about Jesus and yet reject Him as their savior, then they will go to Hell.
 
duari91 said:
Assuming that Jesus IS the only way to heaven, and Jews reject Jesus, what would you say on the issue of morality?

Maybe something along the lines of God being a judge, justly punishing those who broke the law?

Or do you believe that it is inherently immoral to sentence such a fate?

Do you think that God could pardon a criminal, without a just reason, and still be morally correct?
Click to expand...

I would say that from God's word I have seen nowhere it says that He pardons people, only that Jesus as our Savior is the only way. So yes, I would say that any person who does not believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and our Lord is not saved and will not go to Heaven, and will go to Hell. It is not something I believe the Bible leaves up for interpretation, I believe He made it quite clear.
 
duari91 said:
I understand, and am not necessarily refuting the faith of Abraham. I am merely stating that the death of Jesus then invalidated the method of salvation prior to his death. Basically nullifying the previous method that Abraham operated under. Abraham believed in the same God, but held a different standard of beliefs. Based on the word/instruction of God that he had to go by. Today, we wouldn't say, to follow in the steps of Abraham is a path to heaven. Instead, we say that Jesus is the path of heaven, because Jesus IS God, and stated so.

Is that not correct?
Click to expand...


I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but Romans 3 speaks of the Lord Jesus having been 'set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare I say at this time His righteousness, that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus' (Romans 3.25.26).

In other words, both the Old Testament saints and New Testament believers depend, looking forward and back, respectively, on the work of the Lord Jesus at the Cross. Throughout, there is a consistency in the need of the righteousness of God to be satisfied.
 
duari91 said:
Just asking a few questions to gather a discussion...

Question 1: Do modern day Jews go to hell (assuming there is a hell, and knowing they do not accept Jesus as their savior)

Question 2: IF you say they do, did the Jews who suffered in the holocaust go to hell as well?

Answer the questions, and explain why you believe it is/is not moral.
Click to expand...

Answer to question 1: If you do not recognize Jesus as God in the flesh, and that he is the ONLY way, then yes, you are going to hell.

Answerr to queston 2: See the answer to question 1.
 
duari91 said:
I understand, and am not necessarily refuting the faith of Abraham. I am merely stating that the death of Jesus then invalidated the method of salvation prior to his death ... Is that not correct?
Click to expand...
No, it isn't, because the method of salvation did not change. Salvation was, is and always shall be by faith, and faith alone.
 
Understanding the concept of "hell" must be placed entirely in the perspective of one's belief. To say Jews may or may not go to hell infers that the integrator is from another religion. Christians believe that CHRIST is the only way into salvation, therefore an escape hell guarantee...other than that...you are only appeasing other sensitivities when you say "it's okay as long as you believe." Believe what? If you "believe" Christ is the door..then obviously you are not a Jew any longer.
 
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