Rapture and the Second Coming

[reba]

Jeff there as many different views on the whole tribulation as there are people....

Some believe it came and went

Some believe it is yet to come

Some believe it is here for some now.. ( like for Christians in the middle east)

Some believe it is 7 years

Some believe it is 3 1/3 years

Some believe it is the second chance

 

[JLB]

Private??????????????????????????? Joh_17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That so called private message was printed in a Book JLB, the Same book that Jesus said everyone that shall believe on their Word. It's for everyone that believes........

Brother,

What are you talking about??????????

Can you read???????

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"


29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


When will be your coming and the end of the age???????

AFTER THE TRIBULATION!!!!

These who Jesus was teaching PRIVATELY were His disciples, Apostles, Church Leadership.

That is who this message is to, THE CHURCH.

Not the Jews, but the Church.

If you are part of the Church, then this message is for you.

If you are not, then He will come as a thief in the night.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

This message has been deleted by reba.

Reason
no need

I hope I did not miss anything Good here.

Brother,

What are you talking about??????????

Can you read???????

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

I can read, but once again if it was private, then the Jews would not be able to read it. Let me guess............ You think this verse is censored in Israel? Has to be it, every bible in Israel has this verse removed so it's just our secret.

JLB, you know that Pre-tribbers split Matt into two events....... (The smart ones do) the whole doctrine though does not just rest on Matt, just like your confusing nouns and verbs does not just rest on that one scripture.

If Jesus was just giving the information to the church then.....

A) would have never mentioned Judea.
B) would have never mentioned keeping the Sabbath.
C) would have never mentioned fleeing.

The information is to the people he was sent to minister to and anyone else dumb enough not to except him as Lord. It's in there for all to go back once they figure out we are gone....

Jesus gives the exact timing to his return, right after the tribulation. We have several key events that take place before he lands.

The 2nd part of Matt He describes something different. The day or hour we don't know, we will know the season though as he said watch the fig tree (Israel) This is not immediately after the Tribulation, this is not knowing the day or hour and we can pin his return to the 1/2 hour after the 6th seal which will be very evident, mens hearts fail, people trying to hide from the face of the lamb, Angel with a big number 7 on His T-shirt sounds the last trumpet.

The other event Jesus describes a time like the days of Noah..... everyone clueless until Noah shuts the door to the ark. Only this time one is taken one left plowing in the field which nobody is going to be doing during tribulation or at the release of the 6th seal.

It's only those that call Jesus Lord, and Master that he comes for, not those keeping the Sabbath or off in Judea somewhere. It's those that don't know the day or hour and just like Noah when we are taken as the ark door closed so will the World know they are in a big mess, and there is just 7 short years left.

I know you won't get what I am saying, so I am just typing to be typing................ However I have a very valid point when comparing the two events.

So, Jesus does not have to just be talking privately it's like saying everywhere else Jesus spoke to the disciples that only those saved can follow it or even know it.

So your logic is that nobody can know what Jesus said every time He spoke to just his disciples, it would be impossible for them to know it.

It possibly could not be Jesus What happens with the Jewish folk to his disciples so they can minister to them as Jesus said those that believe on their word. Can't possibly be that Jesus was instructing them to get the Word out to the Jew and gentile....... That could never happen.

I get concerned about the Logic you use at times JLB...........

I guess if someone gave you a little league team to coach, you could not tell them what you learned playing little league because that information was only for you when you were little.

Sorry kids........... I am the coach, but I can't divulge that information...... bummer eh?

Mike.

 

[n2thelight]

So what's the difference between the Rapture and the Day of the Lord(2nd coming)?Please give verses.......

 

[JLB]

If Jesus was just giving the information to the church then..... A) would have never mentioned Judea. B) would have never mentioned keeping the Sabbath. C) would have never mentioned fleeing.

The New Testament was written to the Church and for the Church.

Nothing in the entire Bible even hints at a pre-trib Rapture.

Jesus certainly didn't speak of it.

Paul didn't teach it.

No one taught this doctrine.

It is a cunning devised fable, no where to be found in the bible.

I have never seen you give one single scripture that teaches a pre-trib rapture.

Not one single scripture in post 63.

I have never seen one scripture from you that teaches this doctrine.

You only speak against the word of God to dilute what it says.

You can only twist and change what scriptures I list, to change what is said.

Every scripture that has the phrase "Coming of the Lord" always refers to Jesus returning at the end of the age being seen, or destroying the false messiah.

It is really very sad, brother.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Nothing in the entire Bible even hints at a pre-trib Rapture.

Well, now that is the thing............. No post tribber I met can explain a few things. I have not seen you refute it either but just to say it's not so.

Tell me why Jesus said no man know the day or hour concerning those that call him Lord but those that keep the Sabbath He gives the exact time he comes. The only thing a post tribber can do is remove the events of the 6th and 7th seal. A post tribber won't do that either.

Paul said we escape the wrath to come, what wrath is that? When Jesus comes or all the trumpets and vials? Sort of cryptic there. If you read what God does to the planet it makes Satan a very small player in the whole thing. He throws up some mark of the beast......... Big deal God turns 1/3 of the planets water to blood.

Your one of those post tribbers that are different. You believe we are going in to kick devil butt. That is a faith position that many post tribbers don't take. Most believe we have to be tested and suffer at the hands of Satan. That is not true either since Satan would have no place or right, and we are delivered from the powers of Darkness.

I ask you to just ask God about it. I have had to do that, and what seems right (Not all the head knowledge) will be the right answer.

Do we have to stick around and battle? Or is God just dealing with the rest of the World that rejected our preaching and truth?

Your blessed and ........

Jesus Is Lord.

Mike.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

So what's the difference between the Rapture and the Day of the Lord(2nd coming)?Please give verses.......

The rapture is but the term used to describe that gathering/snatching of the elect to meet Jesus in the air at his parousia.

The Day of the Lord is a bit more complex as it typically refers to a time or times when the Lord's judgment will be poured out. It is possible for them to coincide and that seems to be illustrated in Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4 as well as 2 Thessalonians 2, and of course in Johns pinning of the Revelation of Jesus. In Revelation John said he was in the spirit on the Lord's Day and he went on to describe scenes of great judgment and whow. The Lord's Day is also referenced in passages like Ezekial 30:1-12 which speaks about Babylon being used by God to bring judgment upon Eygpt and others. It is also referenced in Isaiah 13:1-19 where Babylon is the focus of God's judgment as the Medes and Persian would be God's weapons of choice to bring about God's wrath. Additionally Isaiah 2:12
speaks about the Lord's Day in the midst of a chapter that describes a judgment against the land of Israel.

 

[JLB]

Tell me why Jesus said no man know the day or hour concerning those that call him Lord but those that keep the Sabbath He gives the exact time he comes.

Jesus tells us His coming is on the feast of Trumpets by this statement, no man knows the Day or hour.

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The gentiles didn't hear the gospel till some 10 years later when Peter preached to the house of Cornelius.

What was written in the New testament is for the Church.

Jesus was teaching His Church privately on the mount of Olives.

Pre-trib Rapture is a myth, with no scriptures to validate it.

Pre-trib Rapture is a MYTH!

Case Closed.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

esus tells us His coming is on the feast of Trumpets by this statement, no man knows the Day or hour.

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Seems to me that 1/2 hour of silence setting up His grand appearance would mean down to the last 1/2 hour............ so there must be two events............ Myth "UN-Busted"

Mike.

 

[JLB]

esus tells us His coming is on the feast of Trumpets by this statement, no man knows the Day or hour.

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Seems to me that 1/2 hour of silence setting up His grand appearance would mean down to the last 1/2 hour............ so there must be two events............ Myth "UN-Busted"

Mike.

Until you give a scripture that is clear and plain as... After the tribulation...

Then all you have is a man made doctrine to satisfy itching ears, that will pay preachers to tell them what they want to hear.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 2 Timothy 4:3


No scripture No doctrine.

sheesh


JLB

 

[reba]

Guess what guys you ain't never gonna figure it out :gah see....

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. :amen

 

[Deborah13]

The 2nd part of Matt He describes something different. The day or hour we don't know, we will know the season though as he said watch the fig tree (Israel)

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:


Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.


I would have to deduct that if the fig tree represents the nation of Israel then the other trees have to represent the other nations.

OR Jesus was simply tell them that AS the budding of trees in the spring means that summer is near, the "all these things" were also signs a future happening.

 

[Deborah13]

So since we have to wait for this great Revelation of Paul who should have used the English verb "Apostasy" instead of the Greek Word that meant departure. (Shame on Paul)

Even in English the word 'Apostasy' is a NOUN not a verb.

Noun1.apostasy - the state of having rejected your religious beliefs or your political party or a cause (often in favor of opposing beliefs or causes)defection, renunciation
rejection - the state of being rejected
2.apostasy - the act of abandoning a party for causetergiversation
abandonment, desertion, forsaking - the act of giving something up

She abandoned.
She deserted.
She forsook.

She apostasy? No

JLB, was not using an English verb in place of a Greek noun.

The only reason I mention it is because you did, two or three times and it seems it might be effecting what you understand us to be saying.

Also, I don't think anyone believes the whole church or any individual churches (denominations, whatever) will defect from the faith. It is always about individual faith, is it not?

 

[Deborah13]

Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

True...... and Jesus said who they were in these verses.....

John 10 NASB

15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

More than one fold brought together as one flock with one shepherd.

 

[Brother Mike]

OR Jesus was simply tell them that AS the budding of trees in the spring means that summer is near, the "all these things" were also signs a future happening.

I believe that is right, Several said that the fig tree would represent things going on in Israel and Jesus went to see if Fruit was on a certain fig tree because it had bloomed out even though it was not the time for figs yet and found none. We won't know the day or hour but We will know the Season, and the Holy Spirit will start dealing with us.

JLB, was not using an English verb in place of a Greek noun.

The only reason I mention it is because you did, two or three times and it seems it might be effecting what you understand us to be saying.

Also, I don't think anyone believes the whole church or any individual churches (denominations, whatever) will defect from the faith. It is always about individual faith, is it not?

NO............. JLB is using a English Verb in place of a Greek noun, He sure is as he is getting his meaning from "Apostasia" derived from the English Word Apostasy. A noun can't deflect from itself anyway, so he is definitely using a English action verb here.

As for Apostasy being a English noun, then it would only refer to one person and I am sure JLB does not does not thing it falling away of just one.

However they were in Apostasy, or they committed Apostasy would be a verb However I can't find that again and only getting examples that Apostasy would just apply as a noun and one person. I will keep looking but the Verb would be Apostate.

This does not help JLB though, he does not believe the Son of perdition is revealed by just one person committing Apostasy..................... Therefore it has to be a Verb anyway.

Thank you Sister!!!! Had a great time helping a women coworker my wife knows tonight with word and prayer, great stuff since she is going through lots of hard things...

Your blessed, keep sharing.

Mike.

 

[n2thelight]

Guess what guys you ain't never gonna figure it out :gah see....

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. :amen

True we don't know the day and hour,however,we are to know the season..The signs that Christ gave us,are the clues to that time......

 

[Brother Mike]

Guess what guys you ain't never gonna figure it out see....

This may be true, but still fun to pick on Post tribbers.............. Those PRETREEIST though, that is another animal.

I mean we are arguing over a Noun and a Verb...................... What does God think about all that?

Mike.

 

[n2thelight]

There are plenty of rapture forums to which we can explain,why we believe what we do....The purpose of this thread was for people to show the difference between the rapture and the 2nd coming,as my opening post states,I believe the two to be one event....

Now can anyone show me the difference,with scripture,or dispute that which I have already posted?

 

[turnorburn]

Hows about this reba; you remember the saying, i know it i believe it that settles it..

A wolf from that city on seven hills introduced that story about the pre-second coming to spread mass confusion, it wasn't God because he's not the author of confusion so that leaves one other possibility..

tob

 

[reba]

Guess what guys you ain't never gonna figure it out see....

This may be true, but still fun to pick on Post tribbers.............. Those PRETREEIST though, that is another animal.

I mean we are arguing over a Noun and a Verb...................... What does God think about all that?

Mike.

You sure you want an answer?

Mat_5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.