Rapture and the Second Coming

[JLB]

OH NO!!! You just did not mention the JW word did you? ACK!!! you did. 1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. The Lord Jesus Christ defined as the first fruit of all that sleep (dead) 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Paul is now talking about all those "IN" Christ the first fruit. 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: (In Christ) Christ firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Paul is talking about this In Christ the first fruit in this order, Christ firstfuit (Those that made Jesus Lord and produced fruit) then afterward those that are just his. Jesus can't be those following in this order because it's those IN him and he can't be in Himself.......... Use common sense here. All about Nouns 101: A house is a noun, but where is the house? I have just one simple question for you. If I told you to grab the keys on the table (Noun) and there were 5 pairs of keys to choose from (Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Purple) what keys did I mean? Or Would you need more information? What is the answer.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20


Jesus Christ is the Firstfruits.

EVERYONE ELSE is in the category number 2.


Two categories are mentioned in verse 20.

1. Jesus Christ the Firstfruits.
2. Those = everyone else [resurrection and rapture]

If you yourself are not Jesus Christ, then you are in category number two.


There are not 3 options in verse 20.


All the twisting of Greek words and Greek nouns and verbs, and religious double speak, Lexicon gymnastics and spiritual mumbo jumbo, will not change this fact.






JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

All the twisting of Greek words and Greek nouns and verbs, and religious double speak, Lexicon gymnastics and spiritual mumbo jumbo, will not change this fact.

This was not a case of "Twisting" anything or using Greek, just reading it like it's written. Those IN Christ follow in this order.......... It's real simple.

Jesus is not in himself, we are in him.

Just plain English is all.

Thess.......... The break down!!!

Article Subject: Jesus gathering us together in Him. Jesus is the lead of the Article, the Body of Christ is the subject/Object connected to Jesus.


By our gathering together unto the Lord Jesus there shall be a departure first, then the Son of perdition revealed.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Paul never mentioned the church falling into Apostasy, He did mention the resurrection though and the coming of the Lord Jesus.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Now you know what withholds...... The subject of the Article is the Lord Jesus and his gathering his body. We now Know it's Jesus that is withholding or restraining the Son of Perdition from showing up.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Sin is allowed, no judgment as Judgment is on the last day. Sin has a counter force called Grace, where sin abounds, grace abounds more.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Once He is taken out of the way (His Body by gathering us together with him) The gates of hell can now prevail. While we are here there is light and we have authority over the devil, so we must be removed His body so that the son of perdition can work unhindered and be revealed.

Once the Lord Jesus Takes his Body from this Earth He has no more bodily presence and Satan has no more hindrances.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

All the twisting of Greek words and Greek nouns and verbs, and religious double speak, Lexicon gymnastics and spiritual mumbo jumbo, will not change this fact.

This was not a case of "Twisting" anything or using Greek, just reading it like it's written. Those IN Christ follow in this order.......... It's real simple.

Jesus is not in himself, we are in him.

Just plain English is all.

Thess.......... The break down!!!

Article Subject: Jesus gathering us together in Him. Jesus is the lead of the Article, the Body of Christ is the subject/Object connected to Jesus.


By our gathering together unto the Lord Jesus there shall be a departure first, then the Son of perdition revealed.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Paul never mentioned the church falling into Apostasy, He did mention the resurrection though and the coming of the Lord Jesus.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Now you know what withholds...... The subject of the Article is the Lord Jesus and his gathering his body. We now Know it's Jesus that is withholding or restraining the Son of Perdition from showing up.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Sin is allowed, no judgment as Judgment is on the last day. Sin has a counter force called Grace, where sin abounds, grace abounds more.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Once He is taken out of the way (His Body by gathering us together with him) The gates of hell can now prevail. While we are here there is light and we have authority over the devil, so we must be removed His body so that the son of perdition can work unhindered and be revealed.

Once the Lord Jesus Takes his Body from this Earth He has no more bodily presence and Satan has no more hindrances.

Mike.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20


This scripture states that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead, and is the Firstfruits.

Jesus Christ is the Firstfruits.

Not those who are His, but Him.

Those who are His will be resurrected at the end of the age, when He returns.


Why would you try to twist and change these very simple and plain words.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Jesus Christ is the Firstfruits.

Not those who are His, but Him.

Those who are His will be resurrected at the end of the age, when He returns.

I understand JLB........

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

No doubt here, He is the firstfruit(s) of them that slept.

We are His first fruit(s) just like it reads.

Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The Spirit, WE are off the vine Jesus produced.

Jesus was the first, to be raised so because He was first we are also raised with new body. We shall appear like him. Paul's whole thing is to discuss the body ressurection. Jesus got his first, First fruit we are the (s) of what Jesus did.

Believers coming in to Jesus are his fruit!!!

Rom_16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

The first fruit unto Christ!!!

So those in Christ (His fruit) follow in this Order.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

So just like it reads JLB............. Those in Christ (His fruit(s)) in this order... first Christ first fruits..........(ho is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.) then those that are his......

Your claiming Jesus is not the vine or any scripture denoting that Jesus produced any fruit....................... However that can't be because I just gave you scriptures and Paul is talking about this in Christ (The first fruit) in this order every (man) in this order.

Why are we having such a hard time with this?

Rev_14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

These are firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb, Not in Christ but those that are his and followed him. They are also considered firstfuits but not IN Christ but His.........

Your theory about Jesus being the only Firstfruit to get a new body is.............

Myth Busted!!!!

 

[JLB]

I understand JLB........ 1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. No doubt here, He is the firstfruit(s) of them that slept.

Then nothing can contradict this scripture.

We are His first fruit(s) just like it reads. Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. The Spirit, WE are off the vine Jesus produced.

This reads we have the first fruits of the Spirit, not the full measure we will have when we are resurrected from the dead.

The first fruits of the Spirit.

Jesus was the first, to be raised so because He was first we are also raised with new body. We shall appear like him. Paul's whole thing is to discuss the body ressurection. Jesus got his first, First fruit we are the (s) of what Jesus did.

We will be resurrected at the end of the age, at His Coming.

...Afterward, at His Coming.

His Coming is after the tribulation.

Believers coming in to Jesus are his fruit!!!

Believers coming to Jesus are fruit.

This has ZERO to do with the discussion of the resurrection of the dead, of which Christ is the firstfruits.

Rom_16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

These are the first ones to be saved in that region.

This has ZERO to do with the discussion of the resurrection of the dead, of which Christ is the firstfruits.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1Co 15:22-23)

That is not what that scripture says because you left out a word, and you ignored the established context of verse 20, so that because you took away from Gods word by omitting a word and you changed the sentence structure, you are now in violation of twisting the scriptures.

But every man in his own order: Christ firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming...

This is a false statement that has been changed by Brother Mike, who is twisting God's word.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

This is the way the scripture reads and is the truth.

Christ the firstfruits.

Rev_14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. Revelation 14:3-4

These are fruit-fruits that were redeemed from the earth, not resurrected from the dead. In addition, this is not at the end of the age, when Jesus returns.


Brother Mike, you have gone to great lengths to twist and change what God's word plainly says for the purpose of promoting a man made doctrine.

The pre-trib Rapture doctrine is a man made doctrine.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

This has ZERO to do with the discussion of the resurrection of the dead, of which Christ is the firstfruits.

If they are Christ produced they are fruit..........

23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

This is the way the scripture reads and is the truth.

I like how you leave out the "IN" Christ and add "The"

Seriously, who is the one bending up scriptures a bit here?

Your fighting tooth and nail to keep a Post trib doctrine alive and it's just not coming out in the wash.

Christ only has first fruit as long as it don't mess with Corinthians.................. Your kidding, right?

Mike.

 

[JLB]

If they are Christ produced they are fruit..........

They are fruit.

But they are not firstfruits in the Resurrection.

For you to use this scripture, to validate the idea that others were firstfruits beside Christ in the resurrection of the dead, shows you are willing to con volute the idea of the resurrection in any way you can.

I like how you leave out the "IN" Christ and add "The" Seriously, who is the one bending up scriptures a bit here? Your fighting tooth and nail to keep a Post trib doctrine alive and it's just not coming out in the wash. Christ only has first fruit as long as it don't mess with Corinthians.................. Your kidding, right?

I would love to believe the fairy tale you propagate here on this Forum, but The Spirit of God in me shows me the Truth of the scriptures.

Here is what my bible reads -

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.1 Corinthians 15:20 NKJV

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

The order of the resurrection of the dead is:

Christ the Firstfruits.

Those who are His.


When?

Afterward.

Specifically when?

At His Coming.


Please show me here where I have added any words or twisted any scripture.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

I would love to believe the fairy tale you propagate here on this Forum, but The Spirit of God in me shows me the Truth of the scriptures.

Here is what my bible reads -

We both have the Spirit of God, we both hear God. Someone is not tuned to the right channel concerning this passage of scripture.

I wonder........ Because If I agree with you, then despite the other Pre-trib scriptures, you can't have one that says different or contradict. It messes up the Whole pre-Trib concept. I know it's the same with you.

Please show me here where I have added any words or twisted any scripture.

This is not the case of twisting the scripture. It's like the old women picture, I see the old women you see the young women same picture.

So then it must not be the scripture, but we are just bull dog on this pre and post trib.

Mike.

 

[turnorburn]

Is the rider on the white horse the Antichrist?

tob

*edit: Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

 

[JLB]

I wonder........ Because If I agree with you, then despite the other Pre-trib scriptures, you can't have one that says different or contradict. It messes up the Whole pre-Trib concept. I know it's the same with you.

The problem is, there are no pre-trib scriptures.

As I have just shown you.

Christ is the firstfruits.

You have to change this scripture, because it shows that there is one resurrection at the coming of the Lord.

You have to somehow, some way, show that there is another resurrection and Rapture that occurs 7 years prior in a secrete, unseen way.

Sorry Brother. It just doesn't exist.

Jesus Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection of the dead.

Afterward, those who are His, at His Coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22

... to those who eagerly await Him, He will appear a second time... Hebrews 9:28


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

The problem is, there are no pre-trib scriptures.

As I have just shown you.

Christ is the firstfruits.

You have to change this scripture, because it shows that there is one resurrection at the coming of the Lord.

I grew up with Dr. Sues books, It just might have given me that edge to understand that Christ is the first fruit, those in Christ each man in his order, Christ fristfuits (first) then those that are his.

I could have been you just did not have those great starting books to understand reading.

My Daughter has Yertal the Turtle if you would like to borrow it. Page 5 is missing, but You can still follow the plot.

Your blessed.

Mike.

 

[n2thelight]

Mike

Apostasy

noun, plural a·pos·ta·sies.
a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

So why don't we clear up this failure to understand nouns and verbs first, what causes someone to be completely clueless to simple language. If it's Apostasy then it's a person as the word is a noun. If it's Apostasies Plural then The Greek Noun does not denote that or the Holy Spirit must have gotten it wrong.

Apostasia means to depart from a previous standing, the Root Verb that the noun is made just means to depart. Nothing in the Greek make up a deflection from what is true or a revolt from what is true. It has to have the male noun or defined in the article to what is departed from.

Like the example with the Word in Acts, they Forsake (Apostasia) what did they forsake? Moses........ That is the proper Greek Female noun not able to define what it departed from or forsake from a previous standing.

So we need to explain what causes someone to ignore our other example of how a Female Greek noun is used.

Even if it were a verb.......

There's your answer in red,why do you ignore it?Why do you insist on it being a depature from the earth?

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Paul never mentioned the church falling into Apostasy, He did mention the resurrection though and the coming of the Lord Jesus.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Now you know what withholds...... The subject of the Article is the Lord Jesus and his gathering his body. We now Know it's Jesus that is withholding or restraining the Son of Perdition from showing up.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Sin is allowed, no judgment as Judgment is on the last day. Sin has a counter force called Grace, where sin abounds, grace abounds more.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Once He is taken out of the way (His Body by gathering us together with him) The gates of hell can now prevail. While we are here there is light and we have authority over the devil, so we must be removed His body so that the son of perdition can work unhindered and be revealed.

Once the Lord Jesus Takes his Body from this Earth He has no more bodily presence and Satan has no more hindrances.

Herein lies your problem,you don't know who the he is,that shall be taken out of the way.Let me help you out.......

The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"; "There is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse six is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies [see Ephesians 6:12], from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9].

"Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst". It is the same expression used in Acts 17:33, and I Corinthians 5:2.

Many claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine"

It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now.

Revelation 12:7; "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," Michael [that is who the "he" is in II Thessalonians 2:7 and his [Michael's] angels fought against the dragon [another name for Satan] and his [Satan's] fallen angels.

Revelation 12:8; "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." This war took place in heaven, and that is where Satan and his angels are now; though Satan's spirit, and demonic spirits are all over the earth today. Now we will see what Michael does with Satan, in fulfilling II Thessalonians 2:7.

Revelation 12:9; "And the great dragon [Satan] was cast out [that is the transitive verb of verse seven], that old serpent [this is the role Satan played in the Garden of Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world [except for God's elect]: he was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This is when Satan will physically appear on earth as a man with his angels. This is the time of the Antichrist's coming, and we must know when this time is by when these events takes place, for Satan comes at the sixth trumpet.
Then the verse picks up where Satan is standing in the holy place. Satan's object is to deceive all the world, and have the world take his markings in their minds. God's Word thus says that Satan will come to earth and stand in that Holy place, before Christ will come and gather anyone back to Himself.

II Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth, and shall destroy [bring to naught] with the brightness [manifestation] of his coming:"

"The wicked" is better translated, "wicked one": What comes out of the Lord's mouth? It is the Truth. That is also the Word that God put in the mouth of Paul in this writing. Satan shall then be destroyed after being cast out, and also after standing in the holy place. After this is the time of Jesus Christ coming and gathering of His saints. There is no "anytime doctrine" here. It is in the course of certain events, and God lets us know clearly the order of these events, and exactly what to expect. In Matthew 24:15 Jesus is saying exactly what Paul is saying, Satan will come first and reign before the gathering of the saints.

Then Christ will destroy Satan.

satan must be revealed before we gather to Christ!!!!!

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

If Im not mistaken I think Christ tells us the same thing in Matthew 24

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

The world will be deceived when Satan claims himself to be Christ, for he does have supernatural powers, and he will use them to to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace. He will say, I am Jesus whom ye have been waiting for, and I have come to bring peace to the world, and the world will be brought to peace and prosperity by Satan, the Antichrist. I feel that this time of world peace will come in a matter of months, or a few years. It will come though.

There is no way,nor is it written,that we gather back to Christ,before satan is revealed....

Even God's elect shall still be here,and they are not some, as you all say,tribulation saints........

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

At this point we are still on this earth......Another problem you have is understanding what the tribulation is.........

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Guess you think you all will be gone,while the elect are still here,for real,dosn't that sound crazy to you?

Ephesians 6 tells us the purpose that God's elect will be on earth, and it will be to fight against Satan, and those wicked spiritual powers. That is why you need the spiritual armor on and in place, for the warfare will be a spiritual battle, fought will words and ideas, it will be fought with the very word of God, for Satan will twist that Word, to make it a lie, when he and his forces use it against you.

Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Now where have we seen this before....

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not."

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, He is in the desert;' go not forth: 'Behold, He is in the secret chambers;' believe it not."

This is what you all will say,when satan comes pretending to be Christ,glad Im listening to Christ!!!!!!!

 

[turnorburn]

The rider carries a bow, it doesn't have an arrow so i ask who "on today's scene" carries a bow without an arrow. Now remember this guy is a greatly respected religious figure he has to be in order to fit the title of another Christ the Antichrist. So who is he who carries that bow, cant be Obama "no bow" wasn't Hitler "no bow" and these two aren't even close to being considered religious.. When i read this verse then started looking around for somebody current because i believe we are in the last days the answer came easy. Picture a bow in your mind or Google one up, they have a little curve on either end unless your looking at it from one end then it only has one curve.:yes

tob

Maybe this question doesn't belong in this thread?:help

 

[n2thelight]

Is the rider on the white horse the Antichrist?

tob

*edit: Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Yes it is,right after he gets kicked out of Heaven......satan comes first pretending to be Christ

 

[n2thelight]

The rider carries a bow, it doesn't have an arrow so i ask who "on today's scene" carries a bow without an arrow. Now remember this guy is a greatly respected religious figure he has to be in order to fit the title of another Christ the Antichrist. So who is he who carries that bow, cant be Obama "no bow" wasn't Hitler "no bow" and these two aren't even close to being considered religious.. When i read this verse then started looking around for somebody current because i believe we are in the last days the answer came easy. Picture a bow in your mind or Google one up, they have a little curve on either end unless your looking at it from one end then it only has one curve.:yes

tob

Maybe this question doesn't belong in this thread?:help

The AC will not be a man possessed by satan,it will be satan himself,live and in color....

 

[turnorburn]

And the horse is white designating righteousness, now put a bow in his hand and you have your Antichrist..

tob

 

[Brother Mike]

There's your answer in red,why do you ignore it?Why do you insist on it being a depature from the earth?

OK, go back and read.................... Apostasy...... Noun.............. English..... that is the definition you gave me.

House....... Noun......... English.

Apostasy in English is one person. Otherwise it's Apostasies.... Plural. Check the definition you gave me.

You gave me the English word Apostays from Latin...

We are dealing with a Greek Word. Apostasia. Just means to depart from a standing. Not the dictionary but the word study as the root verb that makes the word just means to depart.

A Greek Female noun does not denote what the object is. No matter how bad you want this to be an English Word, it's not gonna happen. If it was a English noun Apostasy then it refers to one person and you would need a plural. You could use the Verb Apostate.

Before posting read the back and fourth post from Deborah, myself and JLB........ Deborah broke down what the Word means also.

from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9].

Many claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine"

It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now.

Your issue here is there is no scripture that says Michale holds anything, it's not in Pauls Greek Article as Paul said now you know meaning Paul gave the anwers above....... which is the Greek Article Jesus coming to gather us together. Paul never mentioned Michael. Your making that up.

Michale never threw Satan out of Heaven. Your making that up. The scripture says there was no more place found for him............ Not thrown out by Michael.

The one holding back is the Lord Jesus, Satan is not subject to Michael but Satan is subject to the anointed Church.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan was cast out......... does not say by Michael, When that event occurred Salvation, Strength and the Kingdom of God came with the power of the anointing.

We have 4 things that have taken place........... Satan lost his position, Strength came and the Kindgom of God came with power and anointing.

Pay attention........

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Jesus saw Satan cast down from Heaven, At this point he gives us the authority over him. Satan lost his place..........

2Co_6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Salvation is now...... Not later. If it's later we are in trouble. NOW!!! That is scripture.

Kingdom of God in connection to Satan loosing his position in Heaven:

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

The Kingdom of God is now, Satan has no more authority in Heaven.

Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Strength and the power of the anointing (Christ the anointed one and his anointing for us)

Strength is now......

Php_4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

We have already received his anointing NOW..........

Your putting things in the future that have already occurred. Rev 12 is a vision of a past event as everything mentioned has already happened. If Rev 12 is a future event then all the scriptures I posted can't be true.

Ephesians 6 tells us the purpose that God's elect will be on earth, and it will be to fight against Satan, and those wicked spiritual powers. That is why you need the spiritual armor on and in place, for the warfare will be a spiritual battle, fought will words and ideas, it will be fought with the very word of God, for Satan will twist that Word, to make it a lie, when he and his forces use it against you.

Fight Satan for what? He is already defeated and we have authority over him with the Power of the Holy Spirit. It said STAND!!!! Not fight.................... Stand...........Stand...... having done all to stand!!!!

Your making stuff up again.......... Before posting to me, think about what I could bust you on........... Think before responding if it's not in the scripture, then don't post it as a fact.

We fight the good fight of faith................... We don't fight devils.

The world will be deceived when Satan claims himself to be Christ, for he does have supernatural powers, and he will use them to to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace. He will say, I am Jesus whom ye have been waiting for, and I have come to bring peace to the world, and the world will be brought to peace and prosperity by Satan, the Antichrist. I feel that this time of world peace will come in a matter of months, or a few years. It will come though.

It does not say he deceives the World............. Go back and read it again. People accept the mark most willingly. (Most)

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Not false Jesus, not false Satan in disguise. Those that claim to be Christ... (anointed) Claim to operate under the power of God but do not. This is not Satan, He does not operate at the end this way but has his full angelic power.

Satan can't deceive anyone........ If they stick close to the Word, and do the will of God. Jesus said that about doing the will of God. Any persons heart set to do the will of God will not be deceived.

We don't have to fight Satan, Jesus already beat him for us.

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

sounds good enough.

Post is getting long, but I don't want to come back and repeat myself.........

Christ just means anointed............. Look it up.

2Co_2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

The rider carries a bow, it doesn't have an arrow so i ask who "on today's scene" carries a bow without an arrow. Now remember this guy is a greatly respected religious figure he has to be in order to fit the title of another Christ the Antichrist. So who is he who carries that bow, cant be Obama "no bow" wasn't Hitler "no bow" and these two aren't even close to being considered religious.

pope carries a bowed cross, and rides in a white car............. =

It will be someone that disregards women, homosexual and promotes this freedom from religion. That is until, He promotes himself and then he gets nasty. There would have to be a huge political shift toward him before he shows himself but by then it will be to late.

However the World does not need to Worry about Satan......... He is such a small player in Revelation and pathetic at that. His last failed attempt and it will be his worse failed attempt.

The World should be more concerned about What God is doing................. Some of these people around here watched way to many Omen and left behind movies....... Satan is not the star player, not even close.

Rev_9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev_16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev_16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

people are not crying over what Satan is doing................... It's a God that is dealing with a World that rejected the Word, and the Lord Jesus.

 

[turnorburn]

How many mediators between God and man?

tob

 

[n2thelight]

Your issue here is there is no scripture that says Michale holds anything, it's not in Pauls Greek Article as Paul said now you know meaning Paul gave the anwers above....... which is the Greek Article Jesus coming to gather us together. Paul never mentioned Michael. Your making that up.

Michale never threw Satan out of Heaven. Your making that up. The scripture says there was no more place found for him............ Not thrown out by Michael.

The one holding back is the Lord Jesus, Satan is not subject to Michael but Satan is subject to the anointed Church.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan was cast out......... does not say by Michael, When that event occurred Salvation, Strength and the Kingdom of God came with the power of the anointing.

We have 4 things that have taken place........... Satan lost his position, Strength came and the Kindgom of God came with power and anointing.

Pay attention........

Why did you leave out verse 7 and 8

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

If you think satan has been kicked out of Heaven already,then you have a serious problem,satan does not come to this earth until the 6th trump,Christ comes at the 7th....

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Have you seen this happen yet?

And you can say all you want about the word Apostasy,it still won't mean,to be taken off this earth!!!!

Christ comes here,we don't go there,unless we die first,and should that occur,we shall come back with Him

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The subject is those that have died

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body.

The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.