Rapture?

[Drew]

The Greek word for "meet" (meeting Christ in the air, after we have been changed) was used in secular Greek writings concerning going outside a city to meet a conquering king and escorting him back in triumph to the city.

Good point. I am of the position that the "rapture" concept is based on a misreading of Paul. In the famous 1 Thess 4 text, Paul is using a rather complex metaphor - he is not intending the reader to understand that people will be snatched up into heaven.

Jesus is returning not to take us away from the earth, but to transform this earth into our eternal home.

 

[DeBPrpht]

Greetings Ya'll,

Paul wrote in 2 Thess. 2:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Myself, I believe that as the world goes through more frequent, and more intensive "birthpains"(N.I.V. version),.................that there will indeed be "A FALLING AWAY" from THE WAY.
I believe that as wars intensify & result in unheard of millions dying, that as famine becomes known in the Western Civilized nations, as our economy comes to a stop,that as the earth becomes overcome with more & more disasters whether geological &/or related to weather, that as a One World Government that gives it's allegiance to the Beast begins to single out "Christians & Jews",...................I indeed do believe that there will be a Falling Away & those people will be the ones who were FALSELY TAUGHT to expect to be "whisked away", only because they call themselves "christian".

I believe that just as the early church was hunted down, imprisoned, even fed to the lions and slaughtered by the gladiators, that True Christians of today will indeed have to boldly stand in faith, fully believing that no matter how horrible the world gets,...........that Our Messiah is indeed coming & that He will indeed awaken those who are asleep in the ground, & at the same time gather up those who are STILL ALIVE...........Together, those who did not deny Him before mankind, and followed His teachings,.........these will inherit The Kingdom of Heaven.
But those who followed "The Generational False Teachings of Man",............and those who used "christianity" as a way to climb the social ladder of success,............. they will become as prophesied :

Mat 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Millions will quit living under the cloak of Christianity in order to save their physical lives, and gladly take the mark of the Beast !

Out of these who are "fallen", will arise a great many who will count it as "Good" to turn in, even kill a Christian.

When the Messiah & the Prophets spoke of a time that has NO EQUAL in the horror exhibited in those days,and that it would never happen again,..........that is exactly what they meant, irregardless of what Man teaches.

SHALOM!

 

[jsnbrown]

I believe that it will be pre-trib.

Reasons? Well, there is more evidence pointing towards pre-trib rather than mid or post.. Port trib makes no sense to me really..

But anyway.. For one, I will forget scripture for a sec and use common sense.. I would assume that Christians during those times would have read the Bible.. Thus knowing the book of Revelations. If this is true, why would anyone be deceived? I would think many would come to know Christ during that time if Christians were on earth as they would predict something and then it happened.. And don't get me started talking about them not seeming to be affected by some of the plagues..

So if Christians did exist on earth, there would have had to either have been a holocaust-like murdering of Christians, or the Rapture should have taken place.

Now, back to the Bible, I remember reading that the Spirit of God must be removed from the earth before the spirit of the anti-christ could come. I would wish that someone researched that for me. I am not sure where that came from but I'm sure I read it.

 

[turnorburn]

No way no how and that's final there isn't any rapture it was a spoof a hoax a bait and switch.
All created by that great mother of harlots, what better way to cause division a schism in the body of Christ, dissension all manner of foul skulduggery, a secret evacuation and most importantly
"A Lie" Somebody made a bunch of

turnorburn

 

[jsnbrown]

Those who do not believe in the Rapture:

That's cool.. Everyone has their own beliefs..

But study prophecy you can name it what you will, but the bible describes two different comings.. One which is swift and silent.. The other with an Army of Saints from Heaven.. The first, Christian's have coined the term "Rapture" to describe that event.. As we will be haprazo (Or how ever you spell it).. The other is the Traditional second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, believe what you will, but there is proof for the rapture and I don't think it was made up for money.. :-?

 

[turnorburn]

You are here: Spiritual Warfare

Spiritual Warfare: What is it?
Spiritual warfare exists in the unseen, supernatural dimension, where God is all-powerful and Satan is in revolt. As any Christian soon discovers, although spiritual warfare is unseen, it’s absolutely real. The Bible speaks of spiritual warfare in many places, but most directly in Ephesians 6:12, where Paul speaks of putting on the full armor of God:

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.â€Â

Spiritual Warfare: How Do We Go Into Battle as Christians?
Spiritual warfare is an image that many of us would rather reject. However, since the Bible uses terms of warfare, it’s best that we accept God’s imagery, so that we’re properly prepared for real battle. As Christians, we’re going through more than a mere “struggle†on earth – and its seems that war imagery captures this reality better than anything else. Since it’s warfare, God instructs Christians to use a very specific set of armor and weapons in Ephesians 6:14-18:

“Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit...â€Â

God’s list of weaponry is rather unique – these are “weapons of peace.â€Â

Throughout the Bible, you will find examples of God’s weaponry in action. For instance, King Jehoshaphat sent out praise singers in front of his soldiers to cause disarray among the enemy; Joshua used singing and trumpets to bring down the great city of Jericho; and what better example of using faith in battle than David fighting Goliath with a slingshot. Of course, the lesson in all these examples (as in all spiritual warfare today) is that it’s only God who allows us to claim victory over evil!

Spiritual Warfare: Be Strong in the Lord
Spiritual warfare is a reality of the Christian life. But remember, we know the ending – our side wins. Since the Devil has already lost, he has nothing to lose in trying to take as many people with him in defeat. Therefore:

“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.†(Ephesians 6:10-11).

allaboutfollowingjesus.org/

This isn't a game its spiritual warfare, if your not prepared then you've been deceived.

mud josh says So, believe what you will, but there is proof for the rapture and I don't think it was made up for money.. :-?

It wasn't done for money that I know about although there has been a lot of money made off of the rapture series books. I said it came from that great harlot, the one that sits upon seven hills. Have you never heard of "The Society Of Jesus" more commonly known as "The Order Of Jesuits", they are masters at starting trouble and have even been banned from several countries for their mischievous ways.

Ignatius of Loyola was clever, dynamic, disciplined and ambitiousâ€â€qualities that make captains and kings. But instead of a great empire builder, Ignatius became a great saint; instead of an army, he crated and commanded the Society of Jesusâ€â€the Jesuits. "The Popes Unseen Army"


turnorburn

 

[Grog]

The apsotle John"s spiritual grandson,Ephraim the syrian pretty much explained a pre-trib rapture...this is fact.there.no darby-ism...no macdonaldism...none of that.so there.DONE!! ...so ..yeah-feels good,huh?hey-Why not look him up??that would be....oh no ...lets just not do that ,better to just say that we are appointed to the whole ,full WRATH OF GOD,huh?--OH -and but the gates of hell wont prevail against the church,but power will be given to the antichrist to KILL US ALL!!well ,at least he wont prevail....i just wish that we were of the day and not of the night,that day wouldnt have overcome us.

 

[John]

The apsotle John"s spiritual grandson,Ephraim the syrian pretty much explained a pre-trib rapture...this is fact.there.no darby-ism...no macdonaldism...none of that.so there.DONE!! ...so ..yeah-feels good,huh?hey-Why not look him up??that would be....oh no ...lets just not do that ,better to just say that we are appointed to the whole ,full WRATH OF GOD,huh?--OH -and but the gates of hell wont prevail against the church,but power will be given to the antichrist to KILL US ALL!!well ,at least he wont prevail....i just wish that we were of the day and not of the night,that day wouldnt have overcome us.

I did not know that.... sweet :D

 

[Paidion]

Now, back to the Bible, I remember reading that the Spirit of God must be removed from the earth before the spirit of the anti-christ could come. I would wish that someone researched that for me. I am not sure where that came from but I'm sure I read it.

I don't think you read it in the Bible, Josh. I think you read the idea in somebody's INTERPRETATION of the Bible. I think you read in II Thessalonians 2:y

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Your heard teachers who taught that the present restrainer of lawlessness is the Holy Spirit, and so the Spirit must be gone at the time of Antichrist discussed in II Thessalonians 2. But there is no evidence that the restrainer is the Spirit of God. That is no more than speculation. The early Christians thought the restrainer was the Roman government. It was the world government at the time, and it kept evil in bay. From our point of view, the restrainer may be government itself. But when government fails during the tribulation period, then the lawless one, the Antichrist will be revealed.



The pre-tribulation rapture view was unknown before the 19th century. The historic church, though futurist, believed in just one second coming ---- after the tribulation.

But study prophecy you can name it what you will, but the bible describes two different comings.. One which is swift and silent..

Nowhere in the Bible, do you read of two second comings, Josh. Nowhere do you read about a "silent" one.

Generally, I Thessalonians 4:13-18 is considered to be a description of "the rapture". All the pre-tribbers I know so consider it. Let's examine it for a moment.

But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Now tell me, Josh. Would you consider our Lord descending from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God, a SILENT coming?

Not only that, but in II Thessalonians, Paul addresses some concerns that the Thessalonian church who had read some letters supposedly coming from Paul to the effect that the rapture had already occurred. They upset and wondered whether they had missed it. So Paul wrote the following in his second letter:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him...

Paul introduces his next topic. He is obviously addressing the "rapture" which he described in his first letter. It is our ASSEMBLING TOGETHER to MEET THE LORD
II Thessalonians 2:1

Then he says:

... we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming.

So this passage clearly reveals a SINGLE second coming when those who are alive at the time will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air, and triumphantly return with Him to the earth, where He will slay the Antichrist (already established in the earth) by his breath (perhaps by the word He will speak), by his very appearing and coming.

 

[duval]

I have never read where Jesus will return to this earth, where is that?

 

[turnorburn]

You'll find out sooner or later.. :smt045

turnorburn

 

[duval]

we all will. but where in the bible does it say He will return to earth?

 

[turnorburn]

And that old rugged cross will be no more.


Zechariah 14: 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[duval]

Why do you suppose that passage to refer to the 2nd coming?

 

[St Francis]

I voted for "Other (please share if you pick this one)"

This is what I believe, an excerpt from a tract called "The Rapture":

Amillennialism

The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of "binding the strong man" (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, "I saw Satan fall like lightning" (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.....

....As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17â€â€"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).

source link:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

 

[Ant]

http://www.christianityboard.com/?page=rapture

The Rapture
Christianity Board is firmly against what is known as the Rapture Doctrine which teaches a pretribulational rapture; the idea being that all Christians will be taken away before the antichrist appears. It is crystal clear from God's Word that this is a message taught to deceive God's children. The rapture is a false doctrine. This is a teaching that is taught all across the modern church world and it encourages Christians not to open up God's Word and know the signs that he has given. How dare rapture believers want to fly away when they can be teaching and sharing the wonderful love of God to those who are lost!

I saw this posted on another Christian forum.

 

[codenamehsk]

The word rapture cannot be found in the Bible, no doubt about it. It simply means; to be carried away with power. The rapture is going to take place after the tribulation and it's not secret. I'm going to discuss the final events using the scriptures so that there can be no doubt.

When is the rapture going to take place?
After the tribulation. You can find this in revelation 7.

Revelation 7:9,13,14
I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. ... And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

To further understand it, look at the examples in the Bible;
The children of Israel were not saved from the plagues that fell on egypt but they were saved through them.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego were not saved from the fiery furnace but they were saved through it.
Daniel was not saved from the den of lions but he was saved through it.

What will happen when Jesus comes the second time?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What will happen to the wicked?

2 Thessalonians 2:8
Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume ... and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

The saved will go to heaven with Christ and spend 1000 years there while the wicked remain dead in their graves.

Revelation 20:4,5
They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

What will happen to the earth when Jesus comes?

Revelation 16:18,19,20,21
And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. ... And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent[about 75 pounds].

What will be the state of the earth after the rapture (during the 1000 years)?

Isaiah 24:1
Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down.

Jeremiah 4:23-26
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled. ... I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jeremiah 25:33
And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried.

The earth will be totally devastated by the earthquake and hailstorm
that strike at Jesus’ second coming. It will be left in complete darkness. Dead
people will lie strewn across the earth’s surface, with no one mourning, because
none will be left alive. The righteous will all be in heaven, and the wicked will
all be dead.

 

[Elijah_101]

Many Beleive there is a Rapture, Rapture is not in the bible, All will Go through the Tribulation, But acording to the Bible Jesus is Coming after the Great Tribulations not before the Tribulations as what Jesus says in

Matt 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Thess 4:16 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

PLEASE NOTE IN VERSE 17


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Note what Jesus Says ALIVE and REMAIN from what??? Lets go t the Revelation One of the Elders says which of these ariaed in White robes and he Said unto him SIR thou Knowest these are they that Came out of Great Tribulations, All will Go through the Tribulations, None will Excape except those that have the SEAL of God

Rev 7:14And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Dont you know that the RAPTURE is not for the CHRISTIANS but for the Wicked for the Ungodly and those who do not OBEY God? Jesus is going to Gather all of them that offend and Cast them in a furnace of Fire, do you want to be Raptured?

Matt 13:41-The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Cornelius]

I'm sure this has been brought up many times before, but I have not been a part of it. :D So to make it a little easier to voice your opinion let's make it a poll. What do you believe about the rapture? I know many christian that believe in it, and some that don't, there's also the matter of when. Let the voting begin!! :-D

I do not understand why people do not know when the "rapture" (word not in the Bible) will be , because God tells us when it will be. God did not leave us without the timing !

Here it is, a child can understand it.

Mat 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet(last trumpet), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Rapture)

We really have to be hard of heart and hard of hearing NOT to see, that the Lord says it will be AFTER the tribulation, and then He will send His angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Any addition to this scripture is :Rev 22:18 I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

 

[Elijah_101]

Cornelius Stated

Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet(last trumpet), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Rapture)

Are you saying you will be Raptured Before the Tribulations? or After the Tribulations? Please Explain thanks