Rapture?

[codenamehsk]

Are you saying you will be Raptured Before the Tribulations? or After the Tribulations? Please Explain thanks

The rapture will take place after the tribulation.

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation.

Revelation 7:14
These are they which came out of great tribulation.

You can read more here:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/FreeStu...LNG/en/7/The-Secret-Rapture/SC/R/Default.aspx

 

[Joshleet]

Well Ya'all, If ya give me a moment of yer time, I can put this discussion to rest once and for all, with one scripture.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily Sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation set up, THERE SHALL BE A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY DAYS.

• NOW, CONTRARY TO POULAR BELIEF, there is a 3 1/2 year time gap between the sacrifices being stopped, and the abomination of desolation being performed. KNOWING THE SACRIFICES ARE STOPPED in the middle of the 70th week, then wouldn't that locate the event we know as the abomination of desdolation at the end of the 70th week? And if this is true as Daniel states, and we know the abomination of desolation is the event that ushers in the day of the Lord, then doesn't that mean the TRUE day of the Lord must follow the 70th week???

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days, shall the sun be darkened...

• Immediately after the 70th week, the time of Jacob's trouble, the Day of the Lord occurs.

You see, most of today's "Prophets" Have missed their timing by 3 1/2 years. The consequences will be catastrophic. Oh, and by the way THIS RECONCILES all four rapture views.. Is it pre great tribulation? Yes! Does it occur at the time of the AOD? Yes! Does it occur at the end of the 70th week? Yes!, And does it occur before God's wrath is poured out? Yupper!!!

 

[turnorburn]

Well I though this chapter would settle it for good and all..

Zechariah Chapter 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD’S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


turnorburn

 

[St Francis]

The word rapture cannot be found in the Bible, no doubt about it....

The term "rapture" comes from th Latin "rapiemur", from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17â€â€"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]. Even though I do not believe in the popular notion of a Left Behind style rapture, in fairness, the word IS in the Bible - its just not in an "English" tranlation Bible.
Remember: The Bible was around long before the English language was.

 

[dfc1959]

i believe in a pre-trib rapture based on 1 thessalonians 4:13-18..if u notice in verse 17 it says we will be caught up to meet him in the clouds..this is before Jesus comes back to the earth to reign..we r taken out before the antichrist is made known... :P

 

[duval]

But that pasdsage says "so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

[dfc1959]

yes it does say forever we will be with the lord..we r raptured to not have to go through the tribulation..then when the 7 yrs r over we come back to the earth with Christ to rein with him for 1000 yrs..when we except Jesus he is forever with us..he says he goes to prepare a place for us and he would come again and recieve us so we can be where he is..

 

[duval]

I am unaware of any passage which places Christ return to the earth.

 

[dfc1959]

read revelations 19-22..

 

[dfc1959]

christ return is also in zechariah 14; 1-9..ive heard the eastern enterance has been sealed up and that is where Jesus will enter the city..

 

[duval]

Hidfc1959, I have just read Rev. chapters 19-22. Have not found in it indication of Christ's return to earth again. Perhaps you can be more specific. Will read Zech. soon.

 

[turnorburn]

You can read it right here my friend, question is are you prepared to meet God.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


turnorburn

 

[Rebel]

In determining when "the rapture" will occur, it seems imporant also to understand when the tribulation takes place. Occording to scripture, the "tribulation" is right now. It began at the cross and will last until the return of Jesus Christ, for throughout that time Christians have been, are being and will be persecuted for the gospel. The bible states that every believer will be persecuted--

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12

And John stated himself to be a "companion in tribulation" which means the tribulation was present at his time, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:9

As for the rapture, the bible doesn't talk about a "secret rapture" where Christians are going to disappear leaving a pile of clothes and some pocket change behind. All scripture says is that we will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17

We will go up to meet Jesus in the air when He returns, then He will judge the world.

 

[acronyte]

My friends, ALL flesh must see death until the very end of times i.e. after the 1000 years reign of christ.... Do you think that man and his sinful ways can escape death so easily?
You see even after Jesus christ returns, there wil STILL be men who sin on the face of the earth..... yes, I know ... your like "what nonsense are you talking?"
Now revelation 22:14 - speaks about the heavenly Jerusalem...Gods throne on earth
14“How blessed are those who wash their robes[e] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city! 15Outside are dogs, sorcerers, immoral people, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Even after Jesus's return there will be men outside of the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem that will be still sinning... Many have been taught that everything will be all fine when christ returns...I am saddened by the lack of knowledge by some --- Below again states that Jesus will be the light or ruler of the nations of the earth who at that time will still have its kings, queens , presidents etc. .... and they will acknowledge Christ by bringing thier riches to the gates ..... but will not be able to enter

22I saw no temple in it, because the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are its temple. 23The city doesn't need any sun or moon to give it light, because the glory of God gave it light, and the lamb was its lamp. 24The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25Its gates will never be shut at the end of the[g] dayâ€â€because there will be no night there. 26People[h] will bring the glory and wealth of the nations into it. 27Nothing unclean, or anyone who does anything detestable, and no one who tells lies will ever enter it. Only those whose names[j] are written in the lamb's Book of Life will enter it.[k]

I'ma leave ya'll with a word that God gave me concerning the 1000 yrs period :
"The first time I came, I came to shelter you from the wrath of the devil.... The second time, I will be sheltering you from the wrath of my father"

 

[duval]

Rebel, I believe you have the scriptural view. As for Zech.14 it said nothing about the 2nd coming. In my understanding Zech. 14 began to be fulfilled in Acts 1:11

 

[DeBPrpht]

Greetings Ya'll,

Actually if one considers that "The Church" is the Elect:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


And if one keeps faith, in that we have been promised that we will suffer no longer once we are in The Kingdom of Heaven, then one has tpo wonder how this is possible:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
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Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If one believes that the "rapture" has already happened.......then would Our Lord, Saviour & Redeemer allow the "spawn of Satan" to enter the Kingdom of Heaven & have his way with us?...................I SAY NO! All that is written is speaking of The Church / Elect / Saints going through a "Time of Trouble" while here on earth.
Besides that, how is it that today's gluttonous, bloated, lukewarm , half-hearted, stiff necked "christians" believe that they are so much better than the True Early Church that suffered to the point of death by the hand of the Roman Empire & later the Catholic church during the Inquisitions? No,...........I say that there is much more to "Pick up your cross & follow me"

And another thing to ponder on is that at the "last trumpet" we are to be gathered up & receive our immortal bodies,..........but I ask you, if we are to be "gathered up" at the "Last Trumpet",............what happens when the trumpets before the last one blow?

We are told what happens in Revelations when the first six trumpets blow............There is no "Pre-trib rapture",......................and sadly if your faith will not endure even unto death for keeping His Word & Name,.............then more than likely you will do anything to "save yourself" & take the Mark of the Beast.

 

[duval]

Seems to me it all begins to fade away unless you can get Christ back to earth a second time.

 

[codenamehsk]

yes it does say forever we will be with the lord..we r raptured to not have to go through the tribulation..then when the 7 yrs r over we come back to the earth with Christ to rein with him for 1000 yrs..when we except Jesus he is forever with us..he says he goes to prepare a place for us and he would come again and recieve us so we can be where he is..

I wonder where people get 7 years of tribulation from, cause its not in the Bible.

 

[Trump]

Rapture Doctrine
A Stumbling Block for Christians

Before 1830 you can find no mention of the Rapture Doctrine. That alone ought to send up a red flag. In fact, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible. So, where did this false doctrine come from?

In 1830 Margaret MacDonald had an evil revelation on her sick bed, supposedly from God, in which she was shown what would become "The Rapture Of The Church", among other names.

And, from The Incredible Cover-up by Dave Macpherson, Appendix A, you'll read:

"I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light." - Margaret MacDonald (Spring of 1830)

MacDonald's revelation would have probably died with her; however, two preachers grabbed it, cleaned it up, and presented it to Christendom. Today, you'll hear many pastors promoting that false doctrine from pulpits.

Ezekiel 13:19 "And will ye pollute Me among My People for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive the should not live, by your lying to My People that hear your lies?"

This again is what God is instructing us to say to those who are teaching these false doctrines.

Are you going to pollute My word for money [barley] and for taking vows [bread]. Are you going to pollute the world of God because of you budget, or pension program, or anything that causes you to peddle something you know to be a lie. The "souls that should not die", are those that are studying in the Scripture and hunting for the truth, and these false prophets [ministers] lie to them of the word, and lead them astray, for the sake of attendance, money, or any earthly matter.

These false prophets also are lying to those lost souls, and promising salvation to those souls that God doesn't want saved. These ministers and teachers are creating a form of salvation, and false hope, that make people believe they are saved, when they in fact are not. In fact they have no hope in the world. He will identify people shortly.

The lies are like, "We can have real peace in the world;" it is a lie, for the Bible says there will be NO real peace. "You don't need to study the book of Revelation?" That is also a lie, for that is what will prepare you for the final battle. You don't need to study the Old Testament...and you are going to fly away... and on and on. lies, lies and lies.

Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly."

Have you ever wondered what God thinks of your fly-away doctrine? Here it is.

God said, Behold, wake up, I am against your false doctrines [pillows], wherewith ye hunt the souls to make them fly. Did you get that, God is against it when you go out to teach the souls of men and women and tell they they are going to fly out of here.

Those that you have hunted with your whitewashed religion, and told them that they will fly out and not see the time of the end. You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up.

Jesus in the parable, from the mount of Olives, in Matthew 24; woe to that woman that is first take. Then He commands us, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" [verse 42]. We are to pay attention to the times we are in, there is no excuse to rely on fairy-tales, when we can know the times and signs.

the fly away doctrine never came into existence until 1830, and then by a mental ill woman, Margaret McDonald. You would think that most people would be intelligent enough that they could see through fairy-tales. Jesus didn't teach it, John, Paul, nor Peter taught it. If you are relying on the Books of Thessalonians, you had better get back to the original text.

When you rely on I Thessalonians 4:15 to the end, and rely on that to back up the fly away doctrine, you have missed the entire meaning of the book. For in 4:13 it tells you what Paul is explaining to the Christians at the Thessalonians Church. the whole chapter is talking about where are the dead, those who died and are buried in the ground.

I Thessalonians 4:13; "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [dead], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

I Thessalonians 4:14; "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep [die physical death] in Jesus will God bring with him."

If you are a Christian, you had better believe that Christ rose from the dead, or you are no better then the heathen that believe that when a person dies they are still out there in a hole in the ground. It is real sad that what is taught through is divination. God told us in Ezekiel 13:17; "Set thy face against the daughters [suppose to be the bride of Christ] of they people, ...and prophesy thou against them," are we to keep quiet and let them go unanswered? no.

For those who think their can be a compromise with them, and becoming as they are, playing with eternal death. Do you really think God meant something else when He made His hatred of this so strong? If you are so bound up in this fly-away doctrine that you can't see past it, then you have the mark of the beast already. That mark of the beast is not a electronic gadget, but what is fixed in your mind, your knowledge, your imaginations, and what you place your eternal soul in.

What God is saying is that the Mark of the Beast is this rapture doctrine. Why? If you have been trained to believe that the first "Messiah", and you haven't been trained that the first Messiah is the false Messiah, then you are prepared to receive the first Christ as Jesus Christ. With all the wonders and deceptions Satan will bring with him, you will bow to him immediately. This doctrine of the rapture is taught more in the houses of America, then in any other land, and god doesn't like it.

The above verses lets you know what God thinks about the "fly away doctrine" or "repture doctrine".

It’s time to wake up folks and smell the stench of the rapture doctrine. We are in the final days, so it’s time to stop playing with God’s Word and get serious about It. If you believe the rapture, you’ve been duped by false shepards. You will also cast your salvation at satan’s feet.

You must twist Scripture, which is satan's MO, to pull rapture from I Thessalonians.

 

[iWrecknSow]

When you rely on I Thessalonians 4:15 to the end, and rely on that to back up the fly away doctrine, you have missed the entire meaning of the book. For in 4:13 it tells you what Paul is explaining to the Christians at the Thessalonians Church. the whole chapter is talking about where are the dead, those who died and are buried in the ground.

I Thessalonians 4:13; "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [dead], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

I Thessalonians 4:14; "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep [die physical death] in Jesus will God bring with him."

If you are a Christian, you had better believe that Christ rose from the dead, or you are no better then the heathen that believe that when a person dies they are still out there in a hole in the ground. It is real sad that what is taught through is divination. God told us in Ezekiel 13:17; "Set thy face against the daughters [suppose to be the bride of Christ] of they people, ...and prophesy thou against them," are we to keep quiet and let them go unanswered? no.

Hey Trump

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
                                                                                     
1 THES. 5 [1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [2] For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION cometh upon them, as travail upon a WOMAN WITH CHILD; and they shall not escape.
 
Doesn’t [1Thes.5] explain to us that [1Thes.4] takes place on The Day of the Lord? There is no scriptural gap between the above scriptures. 1Thes.5 directly follows 1Thes.4 verse 18. It clearly says that the goins on of 1Thes.4 takes place on the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord takes place after the tribulatuion.
 
ISAIAH 26 [17] Like as a WOMAN WITH CHILD, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. [18] We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. [19] THY DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST. [21] For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniqity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
 
In Isaiah we find scriptural proof that 1Thes.4 and 1Thes.5 belong together like a horse and carriage. You find “women with child†in both scriptures. You find the dead rising in the 1st resurrection in both scriptures. Lastly you find the bad guys gettin the what for in both scriptures. Yup. The Day of the Lord.