Regaining Salvation...

[JLB]

They still belong to the shepherd.

The lost sheep are as sinners who must repent, or be lost forever, just exactly like a sinner who refuses to repent.

Just like the angels who sinned belonged to Him, but were cast down to hell.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Who do the angels belong to, when they were cast down to hell.

Like the the branch that was "in Him", ended up being cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Just because we belong to Him for a while, doesn't necessarily mean we are immune from being cast into the fire and burned.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You've tried to mix and match a lot of various verses. But you've not shown that the parable of the prodigal is about losing or regaining salvation.

Does a lost sinner go to heaven or hell?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Kinda odd that you bring up "opinion" since that is all you've done in your posts. Yes, you've quoted some verses, but none of them say what you claim they mean. And no one has YET shown that they mean what you claim they mean.

They all mean exactly what I claim and are backed up with scripture.

The lost sheep are as sinners who must repent, or be lost forever, just exactly like a sinner who refuses to repent.

Just like the angels who sinned belonged to Him, but were cast down to hell.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Who do the angels belong to, when they were cast down to hell.

Like the the branch that was "in Him", ended up being cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Just because we belong to Him for a while, doesn't necessarily mean we are immune from being cast into the fire and burned.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Kinda odd that you bring up "opinion" since that is all you've done in your posts. Yes, you've quoted some verses, but none of them say what you claim they mean. And no one has YET shown that they mean what you claim they mean.


I've explained what this verse actually clearly STATES numerous times.

If anyone disagrees, they are free to refute my comments about the verse, to show me how and why my comments are in error.

You been refuted [edited, staff].

yet now He has reconciled... if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith,grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

The lost sheep are as sinners who must repent, or be lost forever, just exactly like a sinner who refuses to repent.

Just like the angels who sinned belonged to Him, but were cast down to hell.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Who do the angels belong to, when they were cast down to hell.

Like the the branch that was "in Him", ended up being cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Just because we belong to Him for a while, doesn't necessarily mean we are immune from being cast into the fire and burned.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

What did Jesus mean when he said in John 8: 38, 41, & 44 " Ye are of your father the devil?

 

[smaller]

Do you understand what that means? It was in reference to pharaoh specifically. And He hardened him by allowing him to live longer.

As opposed to what? Striking him dead on the spot rather than drowning him and his in the Red Sea a short time later?

The "real pharaoh" that God raised and hardened in the "flesh/man" pharaoh was this:

Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

Here is that great dragon, again:

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

and again:

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

and again:

Ephesians 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

I know these statements of fact are not fashionable for "modern educated believers" but it is scripture, nevertheless.

And YES, God can and does harden that spirit to resist His Words and His Ways. Perhaps particularly in those who think God can't or that this is not a real (internal) matter:

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Doing this, because there are worse alternatives in the here and now through Gods Very Real Adverse dealings with "filthiness of the flesh and spirit."

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

What did Jesus mean when he said in John 8: 38, 41, & 44 " Ye are of your father the devil?

It meant that God was not their father.

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

What did Jesus mean when he said in John 8: 38, 41, & 44 " Ye are of your father the devil?

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?

JLB

 

[chessman]

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?

No.
And from the mouth of Jesus, that soil withered (because it did not have moisture), died and fell away, (was scorched by the sun) and as a result did not bear fruit.

Luke 8:6 (LEB) And other seed fell on the rock, and when it came up, it withered, because it did not have moisture.
Mark 4:16-17 And these are like the ones sown on the rocky ground, who whenever they hear the word immediately receive it with joy. And they have no root in themselves, but are temporary. Then when affliction or persecution comes because of the word, immediately they fall away.
Mark 4:6 (LEB) And when the sun rose it was scorched, and because it did not have enough root, it withered.​

Now, from the mouth of Jesus, can you post the verse from His interpretation about this soil that says that soil withered and was sent to Hell? No! You can't.

 

[dirtfarmer]

...your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”

This verse hasn't changed, nor it's meaning.





4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• The man has sheep; their are His sheep.
• One of his sheep goes astray, and is lost.
• This sheep that belonged to the shepherd, went astray and was then counted as a sinner that needed repentance.

The only way a person doesn't understand what is plainly stated by Jesus, is they have willfully rejected the knowledge from God.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

The shepherd went to find what? his sheep that was out of fellowship. He was still his sheep.

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

The shepherd went to find what? his sheep that was out of fellowship. He was still his sheep.

That's half the story.

His sheep was a sinner in need of repentance, while lost, or remain lost.

The sheep needed to regain his relationship with the Lord, or remain lost.

Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:6-7

Lost = Hell bound
Found = Heaven bound.

JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?

JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Luke 8:18 " Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. What does " he seemeth to have" mean? appearance but no possession

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Luke 8:18 " Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. What does " he seemeth to have" mean? appearance but no possession

Brother, if you want to engage with me in a discussion, then answer the question I asked, then ask me a question.

Here is the question again,[edited, staff]

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?


JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

That's half the story.

His sheep was a sinner in need of repentance, while lost, or remain lost.

The sheep needed to regain his relationship with the Lord, or remain lost.

Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:6-7

Lost = Hell bound
Found = Heaven bound.

JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Brother, if you want to engage with me in a discussion, then answer the question I asked, then ask me a question.

Here is the question again, with the scripture, that you ignored.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Those in Luke 8:13 have no root.
Ezekiel 33:31-32 " And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and sit before thee as my people, and they hear thou words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not."

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here




hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Those in Luke 8:13 have no root.
Ezekiel 33:31-32 " And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and sit before thee as my people, and they hear thou words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not."

You have given us some more of your commentary.

Thanks for that.

Could you be so kind as to answer the question?



13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?

Just an honest simple yes or no.


JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

You have given us some more of your commentary.

Thanks for that.

Could you be so kind as to answer the question?



13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?

Just an honest simple yes or no.


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

There are many things subjects that could be included in Believes and then doesn't believe, But the answer to the question that you are asking is NO. A person cannot lose their salvation once they receive it. They are kept by the power of God until the time of restitution of all things. How many times was Jesus crucified for sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6 states that if a person falls away it is impossible to renew again unto to repentance and that they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh. If what you believe about loss of salvation then according to these verses in Hebrews, how can they receive salvation again?

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

There are many things subjects that could be included in Believes and then doesn't believe, But the answer to the question that you are asking is NO. A person cannot lose their salvation once they receive it. They are kept by the power of God until the time of restitution of all things. How many times was Jesus crucified for sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6 states that if a person falls away it is impossible to renew again unto to repentance and that they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh. If what you believe about loss of salvation then according to these verses in Hebrews, how can they receive salvation again?

Thank you for your answer.

I also believe the same as you, that a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, is no longer a believer.

The scripture you gave from Hebrews addresses the very subject that Jesus is teaching about.

Even though fall away in the Hebrews verse, is a different Greek word that the fall away in Luke, it is the same context.

The context of Hebrews 6 that you quoted begins in Hebrews 3:12-14 and uses the same Greek word as Jesus used in Luke 8:13, fall away.

Hebrews 3:12 uses the English phrase "depart from" whereas Luke uses fall away.

The culmination of the context runs throughout Hebrews to Chapter 10

Thanks for your honest answer.


JLB

 

[JLB]

But the answer to the question that you are asking is NO.

Is someone who believes for a while, then longer believes, a believer?

I agree.

No. They are not a believer.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"You've tried to mix and match a lot of various verses. But you've not shown that the parable of the prodigal is about losing or regaining salvation."

Does a lost sinner go to heaven or hell?JLB

Hell, of course. But your question has no relevance to my response to your previous comments.

 

[FreeGrace]

They all mean exactly what I claim and are backed up with scripture.

You've not shown that. Anyone can claim anything. And the verses do not back up your claims.

The lost sheep are as sinners who must repent, or be lost forever, just exactly like a sinner who refuses to repent.

But the prodigal is about a son, not a sheep. Please explain when the son was unsaved.

Just because we belong to Him for a while, doesn't necessarily mean we are immune from being cast into the fire and burned.
JLB

But Jesus made these promises:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24

"and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." John 10:28

Did Jesus not really mean what He promised??

This is why your claims are not backed up with Scripture. Your claims contradict the promises of Jesus.