Regaining Salvation...

[FreeGrace]

I know what the scriptures say.

Apparently not. I showed the real meaning of the verse that you've misquoted repeatedly.

There isn't a reference to WHICH angels will be JUDGED, whether the angels who were cast down to hell, or angels of God.

See? You don't know what the Scriptures say. 1 Cor 6:3 SAYS that we will judge the angels.
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? NASB

Paul's question is for those who don't know the Scriptures.

 

[FreeGrace]

Post the scripture that says which angels will be judged by humans.

Always happy to prove my points.

Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 1 Cor 6:3 NASB

Post the scriptures that say we will be superior to the angels.

Let's do a little "math" here.

When Jesus took on human form, He was said to be "lower than the angels" in Heb 2:9 - But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Now, when believers receive their glorified resurrection bodies, the Bible says that we will be "like Him" in 1 John 3:2 - Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

So, I guess the only question left to answer is this: when Jesus was physically resurrected, was He STILL "a little while lower than the angels", or was He very clearly WAY MORE superior to the angels? Or just equal to them?

Now, when you figure out the answer to that question, I think you'll have to agree that believers in their resurrection bodies will be SUPERIOR TO THE ANGELS, since we will be LIKE HIM.

Post the scriptures that say there will be no equality between angels and humans.
JLB

I did the math.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Often, your responses are baffling and I don't see any relevance to your response to what I posted. I explained what having no regrets means, so why was John 15:2 noted??"

You mean you have no answer for the plain words of Jesus.

So, I take it that you either don't want to explain anything or you just can't. OK.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

Once again, what is the relevance that this verse has to having no regrets?

It's funny to see that one sentence from Jesus Christ, completely exposes your false man made doctrine for what it is.

Is it possible to at least try to explain your confusing statements?

Just answer the question Freegrace, if you can.

• In this passage, it says "He" takes away the branch from being [connected] "in Him". Who is the "He" that does the removing of the branch:

A. The Devil?
B. Your Pastor?
C. God?JLB

Of course Jesus was referring to God.

But that's not the issue. The question for you is what "takes away" means. Keeping in mind that Jesus was using a farming metaphor.

Now, I've answered YOUR question. Please return the favor and answer mine. And remember to inclue Scripture to prove what "takes away" means.

 

[FreeGrace]

Salvation has 3 parts:
1) we are saved from the penalty of sin
2) we are saved from the power of sin
3) when we are in the presence of Christ our savior, then we will have salvation from the presence of sin.

Excellent!! Past, present, and future. Or, justification, sanctification, and glorification.

1 John 3:8 He who practices sin is of the devil. Saints(believers) may be overtaken in a faulty(sin) but they realize that fellowship has been broken or hindered and then they confess and fellowship is restore. I didn't say relationship was broken but fellowship. If our relationship could be broken, then we would loose our salvation and I don't believe that it is possible for salvation to be lost.

It seems most who post here and believe in loss of salvation have no concept of the difference between fellowship and relationship, which you've correctly noted. It seems they only understand "relationship". So when the prodigal left the father, they can only see that as spiritual death, or loss of relationship.

 

[JLB]

It seems most who post here and believe in loss of salvation have no concept of the difference between fellowship and relationship, which you've correctly noted. It seems they only understand "relationship". So when the prodigal left the father, they can only see that as spiritual death, or loss of relationship.

It's seems those who don't believe what the bible says about faith, believing and salvation, but rather push a doctrine not found in the bible mostly post their opinion, using no scripture, such as this post, or have a track record of posting half scriptures, taken out of context to prop up their man made doctrine.

Here's the context of the prodigal son:

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• The man has sheep; their are His sheep.
• One of his sheep goes astray, and is lost.
• This sheep that belonged to the shepherd, went astray and was then counted as a sinner that needed repentance.

• Lost = A sinner who needs to repent.

This is exactly what the Lord's brother James taught:

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth. [Believer among the brethren wandered away from the truth.]
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way. [Now considered a sinner in need of turning back to the truth]
  
• save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. [ In danger of eternal death; lost needing to repent]

The Prodigal Son:

11 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living...
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:11-13,32

• your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

Those who are lost are considered as sinners that need to repent, just as the prodigal son who turned away from His Father's house and began to live sinful life, turned back [rented] to His father, and was restored to "life" again and was found.


Lost = sinner that needs to repent.

Lost is a reference to a sinner that is in danger of hell, and needs to repent.

Like the song says: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound... I was lost but now I'm found.



JLB

 

[smaller]

No, it isn't. As I explained clearly.

I agreed with your observation of Calvin. Don't know what your problem is "other than" a different discussion, freewill.

So I said this regarding your statement:
"This is quite mistaken. I believe that mankind has free will, and I can say with absolute assurance that I am saved by Jesus Christ."

What's not to see? You don't believe that those who believe in free will can say that they are saved."

To which I observed that no man, alone in their will, makes such statements, because the Holy Spirit is involved, citing 1 Cor. 12:3 showing the fact.

Then you ignored where I said I believe in free will and also claim that I am saved. Which refutes your comment.

It refutes nothing. You make one claim and then use it to try to prove another unrelated claim.

I addressed man's not operating "alone" or "freestanding" by scripture citings showing for example Gods will and the will of Satan operating in Peter as a fairly easily seen example. Hardly ignored.

Is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit overcomes the will of others? That's really Calvinism.

One might think believers understand that the Spirit of Christ dwells in them. This alone shows the will of believers does not function on it's own. I might even say believers who think their saved life is just their will in operation may also have a tad of the will of the adversarial will that is not them, in play, internally, when they don't understand that is the case. Mark 4:15.

Why should anyone think this has any effect on man's free will??

Why should anyone think that man has freewill to start with? Cited many scriptures showing the blinding of man's mind to the Gospel by a will of Satan, the god of this world, the spirit of disobedience, the spirit of slumber, upon such minds/wills of man. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2.

Of course He does. But what does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have to do with man's freedom of choice? Please explain.

Do you think you are the will of the Holy Spirit and that there is no other will indwelling?

Regardless,

Yeah, regardless of another will functioning in believers that is not the will of believers, you're still claiming freewill?

you STILL haven't shown in ANY WAY how "another will is involved" in eternal security or free will.

Perhaps a review of scriptural citings and discussion of the particulars shown therein would be in order from the prior post, which you just breezed on by.

We can make any assertions after all, but that does not mean they are accurate in light of scriptures disclosures.

My general observation of OSAS is that it is entirely void of judgments against sin for believers and likewise void of the spiritually adversarial will component in man that scriptures clearly show to be present in contentions with us in the form of evil present, indwelling sin in the flesh, temptations, deceptions, the wrestling with adversaries, etc etc.

And OSAS seeks rather to ignore the entire components of the Gospel in this direction and just heaps upon believers another typical package of one sided slant, half a mouthful nonsense.

I said this:
"and judgments of sin/evil has NO RELEVANCE or effect on one's eternal security."

Exactly my point. Your view is VOID of half the Bible.

I agree with the bottom line of OSAS. But I'm also cognizant that there are enemies of the Gospel and that these enemies operate IN man, including in believers flesh.

Not everyone that says Lord Lord is a christian. Those who fancy dance past sin, evil, judgments adverse for christians are NOT telling the truth.

Paul knew the terror of the Lord. He also knew fear of the Lord. There are reasons for these to be present with believers:

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

OSAS packs can be quite boastfully arrogant and in complete lack and denial as it applies to them in filthiness of the flesh and spirit as a present reality.

You can claim it doesn't matter and makes NO DIFFERENCE. I'd beg to differ.

 

[JLB]

Of course Jesus was referring to God.

But that's not the issue. The question for you is what "takes away" means. Keeping in mind that Jesus was using a farming metaphor.

Now, I've answered YOUR question. Please return the favor and answer mine. And remember to inclue Scripture to prove what "takes away" means.

Take away means taken away from Christ.

In which they are no longer "in Him".

Those who are in Him for a while, yet do not remain "in Him", are gathered up and throw into the fire and burned.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6

Takes away = Removed.

• In Christ = Eternal life
• Removed from Christ = thrown into the fire and burned

JLB

 

[JLB]

Just a simple Greek study will show you that ," He takes away" is actually "lifts up." the believer who is not producing fruit...........God encourages and "weeds" out the plot. He even prunes those who are producing fruit.......pruning involves cutting off of some branches!

The Lord Jesus Christ does the lifting up..........the majority of believers and professing believers in this day and age are the ones who are quick to toss them in the LoF.

New American Standard Bible
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Yes the fruit bearing branches are pruned, so that they will produce more fruit.

• The branches that are disconnected from Him are thrown into the fire and burned.

The context is clear to those who choose to read, and hear what the Lord says.

Takes away - Strong's G142 - airō

1. to raise up, elevate, lift up
   1. to raise from the ground, take up: stones
   2. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
   3. to draw up: a fish
      
2. to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
   
   
3. to bear away what has been raised, carry off
   1. to move from its place
   2. to take off or away what is attached to anything
   3. to remove
   4. to carry off, carry away with one
   5. to appropriate what is taken
   6. to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
   7. to take and apply to any use
   8. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
   9. cause to cease
      

The end result of not being "in Him", ie: removed from Him, taken away from Him, or not remaining in Him is...
thrown into the fire and burned.


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6

• In Christ = Eternal Life.
• Removed from Christ = Thrown into the fire and burned.

JLB

 

[JLB]

While I do believe that Satan goes about as a roaring lion seeking those whom he may devour, I do not believe that anyone that is a child of God can be "under the devil's domain. Unless God removes the "hedge" that he has around us or if we have unconfessed sins, the devil cannot touch us.

Unless God removes the "hedge" is the key.
...if we have unconfessed sins is the key.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Those whom you seem to be aligning yourself with, teach that a Christian can renounce Jesus Christ as Lord, and become an atheist, and still be saved.

They also teach that a Christian can take the mark of the beast and still be saved.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

It's seems those who don't believe what the bible says about faith, believing and salvation, but rather push a doctrine not found in the bible mostly post their opinion, using no scripture, such as this post, or have a track record of posting half scriptures, taken out of context to prop up their man made doctrine.

Here's the context of the prodigal son:

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• The man has sheep; their are His sheep.
• One of his sheep goes astray, and is lost.
• This sheep that belonged to the shepherd, went astray and was then counted as a sinner that needed repentance.

• Lost = A sinner who needs to repent.

This is exactly what the Lord's brother James taught:

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth. [Believer among the brethren wandered away from the truth.]
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way. [Now considered a sinner in need of turning back to the truth]
  
• save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. [ In danger of eternal death; lost needing to repent]

The Prodigal Son:

11 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living...
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:11-13,32

• your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

Those who are lost are considered as sinners that need to repent, just as the prodigal son who turned away from His Father's house and began to live sinful life, turned back [rented] to His father, and was restored to "life" again and was found.
Lost = sinner that needs to repent.
Lost is a reference to a sinner that is in danger of hell, and needs to repent.
Like the song says: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound... I was lost but now I'm found.JLB

The problem remains for those who do not discern the various contextual meanings of "dead".

 

[JLB]

The problem remains for those who do not discern the various contextual meanings of "dead".

The context is clear:

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:32

Lost = sinner that needs to repent.
Lost is a reference to a sinner that is in danger of hell, and needs to repent.
Like the song says: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound... I was lost but now I'm found.

‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I addressed man's not operating "alone" or "freestanding" by scripture citings showing for example Gods will and the will of Satan operating in Peter as a fairly easily seen example. Hardly ignored.

Actually, irrelevant to free will. Man makes his own choices, from what is available to choose from. And Paul clarified what is available in Rom 6, and to whom we present our bodies as slaves.

One might think believers understand that the Spirit of Christ dwells in them. This alone shows the will of believers does not function on it's own.

This seems to very clearly teach that man doesn't make his own choices, but that God is making the choices for him. Welcome to Calvinism.

Why should anyone think that man has freewill to start with?

Because of what the Bible says about man's choices. God doesn't blame Satan nor Himself for what man does and thinks. God DOES hold man himself accountable for his own actions and thoughts.

Cited many scriptures showing the blinding of man's mind to the Gospel by a will of Satan, the god of this world, the spirit of disobedience, the spirit of slumber, upon such minds/wills of man. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2.

And so? Those who are blinded by the devil simply chose what their "itching ears wanted to hear".
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires 2 Tim 4:3

So, what have we learned here? That men do not endure sound doctrine. They chose to give up on it. They didn't like it. So they didn't continue (endure) in it.

Second, they wanted to have their itching ears (KJV) tickled. That was their own choice.

And third, they accumulate for themselves teachers who teach in according to their OWN DESIRES.

3 examples of man's free will in operation.

Do you think you are the will of the Holy Spirit and that there is no other will indwelling?

Of course not. There is the Holy Spirit, and the person's own will.

Yeah, regardless of another will functioning in believers that is not the will of believers, you're still claiming freewill?

Sure am. Because of 2 Tim 4:3. Man chooses to whom he will listen. Which is from HIS OWN DESIRES.

My general observation of OSAS is that it is entirely void of judgments against sin for believers and likewise void of the spiritually adversarial will component in man that scriptures clearly show to be present in contentions with us in the form of evil present, indwelling sin in the flesh, temptations, deceptions, the wrestling with adversaries, etc etc.

Well, that's not because you have been repeatedly corrected as to your wrong view about OSAS. Of course there will be judgment against sins of believers. That occurs in time by God's discipline, and at the Bema, where believers will be judged thusly:
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Cor 5:10

And OSAS seeks rather to ignore the entire components of the Gospel in this direction and just heaps upon believers another typical package of one sided slant, half a mouthful nonsense.

This is pure nonsense.

I said this:
"and judgments of sin/evil has NO RELEVANCE or effect on one's eternal security."

Exactly my point. Your view is VOID of half the Bible.

Actually, you missed my WHOLE point. Eternal security isn't involved in sin and evil. They are judged in time by God's discipline (Heb 12:6) and rewards lost for eternity (1 Cor 3:15 and 2 Cor 5:10).

It seems to me that your view misses half of the Bible.

I agree with the bottom line of OSAS. But I'm also cognizant that there are enemies of the Gospel and that these enemies operate IN man, including in believers flesh.

And I wish you'd at least try to explain this very mysterious concept that I don't find in the Bible regarding one's eternal security.

If you really did agree with OSAS, then the rest of your statement wouldn't have been written.

Not everyone that says Lord Lord is a christian. Those who fancy dance past sin, evil, judgments adverse for christians are NOT telling the truth.

I fully agree that not all who claim "Lord, Lord" are believers. Just like the crowd in Matt 7:21-23. But none of that is relevant to eternal security.

Paul knew the terror of the Lord. He also knew fear of the Lord. There are reasons for these to be present with believers:

Is this a suggestion that believers be in terror of God taking away their salvation?? That's sure what it sounds like.

OSAS packs can be quite boastfully arrogant and in complete lack and denial as it applies to them in filthiness of the flesh and spirit as a present reality.

I've noticed that some who claim that salvation can be lost seem quite arrogant in their views of how to "stay saved".

You can claim it doesn't matter and makes NO DIFFERENCE. I'd beg to differ.

That's fine. But you've not shown how anyone can lose salvation, for any reason. From the Bible.

And you've NOT explained your mysterious views about demons in the flesh and how that is relevant.

 

[FreeGrace]

Take away means taken away from Christ.

In which they are no longer "in Him".

Well, this is what I actually asked:
"Please return the favor and answer mine. And remember to inclue Scripture to prove what "takes away" means."

What Scripture would lead one to your conclusion. All I'm seeing is an opinion, devoid of Scripture.

Those who are in Him for a while, yet do not remain "in Him", are gathered up and throw into the fire and burned.

You've provided an opinion, but nothing from Scripture to support your opinion.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6

And you've NOT shown from Scripture anything that supports your opinions.

Takes away = Removed.

Your view has already been refuted, but here is the source for that refutation:
The word for "takes away" is:
airō

1) to raise up, elevate, lift up
1a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones
1b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
1c) to draw up: a fish
2) to take upon one’s self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off

I don't see ANYTHING here about "removed". It seems that was only made up.

In Christ = Eternal life Removed from Christ = thrown into the fire and burned

But your opinion has not been substantiated from Scripture.

And your opinion of John 15:2 is seriously hampered by what "takes away" actually means.

 

[FreeGrace]

Unless God removes the "hedge" is the key.
...if we have unconfessed sins is the key.

The key to any theory is evidence from Scripture, which hasn't been provided as yet.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Have you been born of God? Have you sinned since you were born of God?

Those whom you seem to be aligning yourself with, teach that a Christian can renounce Jesus Christ as Lord, and become an atheist, and still be saved.

We believe and teach that those who have believed will NOT come into judgment, HAVE eternal life, and HAVE PASSED from spiritual death to spiritual life. Which is what Jesus taught in John 5:24.

They also teach that a Christian can take the mark of the beast and still be saved.JLB

First, prove such a claim. If anyone has taught this, please cite at least the post # so we can know who taught that. Second, where is the proof that any believer will take the mark? That is key for your "interpretation" to work. Please cite Scripture to back up your claim.

 

[JLB]

"Please return the favor and answer mine. And remember to inclue Scripture to prove what "takes away" means."

What Scripture would lead one to your conclusion. All I'm seeing is an opinion, devoid of Scripture.

Well here it is again for you.

Please read this post a little closer, and you will see the scripture.

• The branches that are disconnected from Him are thrown into the fire and burned.

The context is clear to those who choose to read, and hear what the Lord says.

Takes away - Strong's G142 - airō

1. to raise up, elevate, lift up
   1. to raise from the ground, take up: stones
   2. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
   3. to draw up: a fish
2. to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
   
   
3. to bear away what has been raised, carry off
   1. to move from its place
   2. to take off or away what is attached to anything
   3. to remove
   4. to carry off, carry away with one
   5. to appropriate what is taken
   6. to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
   7. to take and apply to any use
   8. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
   9. cause to cease

The end result of not being "in Him", ie: removed from Him, taken away from Him, or not remaining in Him is...
thrown into the fire and burned.


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6

• In Christ = Eternal Life.
• Removed from Christ = Thrown into the fire and burned.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

The context is clear:

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:32

Lost = sinner that needs to repent.
Lost is a reference to a sinner that is in danger of hell, and needs to repent.
Like the song says: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound... I was lost but now I'm found.

‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7JLB

Your theory only works if it can be proved that the son ceased to be the son and the father ceased to be the father.

Well?

 

[JLB]

The key to any theory is evidence from Scripture, which hasn't been provided as yet.

Here it is again, for you.
The scripture provided shows us that those who don't keep themselves, are in danger of the wicked one having access to them, to touch them.


Maybe you could clarify your position.

Do you believe that a christian who later becomes an atheist, is still saved?


Unless God removes the "hedge" is the key.
...if we have unconfessed sins is the key.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.1 John 5:18

Those whom you seem to be aligning yourself with, teach that a Christian can renounce Jesus Christ as Lord, and become an atheist, and still be saved.

They also teach that a Christian can take the mark of the beast and still be saved.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Well here it is again for you.

Please read this post a little closer, and you will see the scripture.

• The branches that are disconnected from Him are thrown into the fire and burned.

The context is clear to those who choose to read, and hear what the Lord says.

Well, the real problem is misunderstanding what "takes away" means. It doesn't mean "disconnected", as you've indicated.

Takes away - Strong's G142 - airō

1. to raise up, elevate, lift up
   1. to raise from the ground, take up: stones
   2. to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
   3. to draw up: a fish
2. to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
   
   
3. to bear away what has been raised, carry off
   1. to move from its place
   2. to take off or away what is attached to anything
   3. to remove
   4. to carry off, carry away with one
   5. to appropriate what is taken
   6. to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
   7. to take and apply to any use
   8. to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
   9. cause to cease

There it is. Or isn't, as the case may be.

The end result of not being "in Him", ie: removed from Him, taken away from Him, or not remaining in Him is...

But you have yet to prove that John 15:2 says anything about not being "in Him".

If the discussion is about being "in Him", we have to go to Eph 1:13,14 and 4:30. Where we find that believers have been sealed FOR the day of redemption, which is a clear statement of eternal security.

And no one has shown from Scripture that this seal can or has been broken by anyone for any reason.

thrown into the fire and burned.

Why keep insisting that any mention of 'fire' means hell??

1 Cor 3:15 clearly states that works will be burned up in a fire, yet the person SAVED.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:2,6

Go ahead and continue to quote these 2 verses which you have totally misunderstood in spite of being cleawrly explained.

 

[JLB]

Your theory only works if it can be proved that the son ceased to be the son and the father ceased to be the father.

Well?

All I have to do is post what the scripture says.

...your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• The man has sheep; their are His sheep.
• One of his sheep goes astray, and is lost.
• This sheep that belonged to the shepherd, went astray and was then counted as a sinner that needed repentance.

• Lost = A sinner who needs to repent.

The son left the Father and was lost.

The son repented, in which he turned back to the father and was found.

The Prodigal Son:

11 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living...
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
Luke 15:11-13,32

• your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

Those who are lost are considered as sinners that need to repent, just as the prodigal son who turned away from His Father's house and began to live sinful life, turned back [rented] to His father, and was restored to "life" again and was found.


Lost = sinner that needs to repent.

Lost is a reference to a sinner that is in danger of hell, and needs to repent.

Like the song says: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound... I was lost but now I'm found.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• The man has sheep; their are His sheep.
• One of his sheep goes astray, and is lost.
• This sheep that belonged to the shepherd, went astray and was then counted as a sinner that needed repentance.

• Lost = A sinner who needs to repent.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Well, the real problem is misunderstanding what "takes away" means. It doesn't mean "disconnected", as you've indicated.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

I see, so are you teaching that branches that are connected "in Him" are cast into the fire and burned?



JLB