Regaining Salvation...

[FreeGrace]

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, still a believer?

If they don't believe, then they aren't "believers". But we all know that isn't the issue.

An honest answer would go along way, towards sorting out what's true and what's false.

That goes both ways, you know, right?

I think we both agree that eternal life is promised to believers.

Here's the real issue. Where does the Bible warn that eternal life will be taken away from anyone for any reason?

Now, let's remember your comment about "an honest answer", ok?

Do those who no longer believe in Jesus Christ, still have the Son?
JLB

Actually, the Bible says that He has them.
"and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." John 10:28

And, no verses about taking eternal life away from anyone for any reason. Honestly.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"How about this: so what in regard to eternal security?"

It is appropriate to recognize that God in Christ is not in alignment with any of this "in" believers:

I do not understand what any of that means. And it sure didn't address my comment.

So, again, what does your rather cloudy views on what "dwells in the flesh" have to do with eternal security?

How can anyone have a discussion when they don't have any idea what you're talking about?

Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

What does this verse have to do with eternal security?

We can all blow Holy Smoke all day long to ourselves about our "right standing" with God using "eternal security" or "works" but in the end, we find out that God in Christ condemns the above, regardless of such blowing.

I don't know what you're smoking, and I really don't care, but I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

Or maybe, you're not really trying to communicate anything. Just blowing smoke, as you say.

btw, to have right standing with God doesn't depend on "using" eternal security, whatever that means. It depends solely on what Christ did for us when we believed in Him for eternal life.

I am wondering if you understand that.

 

[chessman]

Tell us what the difference in the genetic make up of male marijuana, and female marijuana.

What does marijuana plants have to do with wheat plants? And it's called the parable of the wheat and the tares, not the parable of female wheat and the male wheat.

They are geneticallydifferent seeds. Darnel seeds are genetically different than wheat seeds. Thus, darnel was sown by the enemy, not wheat. Like I said, they even look different once their grain start to appear (bud). That's how the slaves knew to go tell the master that he had darnel in his field, well before the harvest season. Their grains look different.

Tares/darnel is not 'female wheat'. It's a weed. Wheat is wheat, not a weed. Weeds are weeds with lots of different types. One species of which that happens to look a lot like (not exactly like as you say) wheat until they start to bud their grains.

But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. Matthew 13:26

That's my point, all red text for you to read. THEN, the tares also appeared. You can look at the grain of the wheat and tell a distinct difference from the grain of tares. They are two different plants with different seeds/fruit/grains. For goodness sake, the story tells you this fact.

Matthew 13:25 (LEB) But while his people were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed darnel in the midst of the wheat and went away. ​

The enemy didn't sow 'male wheat', he sowed darnel seeds. Where do you get darnel seeds from if it does not produce grains?

 

[JLB]

What does marijuana plants have to do with wheat plants? And it's called the parable of the wheat and the tares, not the parable of female wheat and the male wheat.

Same situation.

Wheat plant with no wheat is a weed.

JLB

 

[JLB]

The enemy didn't sow 'male wheat', he sowed darnel seeds. Where do you get darnel seeds from if it does not produce grains?

Yes seed that grows and look exactly like wheat, and can not be distinguished from wheat until the wheat puts forth fruit.

JLB

 

[OzSpen]

Same situation.

Wheat plant with no wheat is a weed.

JLB

No, wheat plants have any number of reasons why they don't bear grain. These may include disease in the plant or infected grain. However, this does not mean the grain that was planted was not wheat.

The parable of the wheat and the tares is that of wheat and look-alike wheat. That's why modern translations have wheat and weeds (Matt 13:36-43 ESV). See 'What is the parable of the wheat and the tares?'

Oz

 

[JLB]

No, wheat plants have any number of reasons why they don't bear grain. These may include disease in the plant or infected grain. However, this does not mean the grain that was planted was not wheat.

The parable of the wheat and the tares is that of wheat and look-alike wheat. That's why modern translations have wheat and weeds (Matt 13:36-43 ESV). See 'What is the parable of the wheat and the tares?'

Oz

I said: A wheat plant with no wheat is a weed.


You answered, No.

Then you say... The parable of the wheat and the tares is that of wheat and look-alike wheat. That's why modern translations have wheat and weeds??

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Did you understand what I said about the marijuana plants.

A male marijuana plant does not produce "fruit", but is considered a weed.

A stem with leaves, but no buds, though it's still marijuana.

Likewise the wheat and tares:

It looks the same while growing, and can only be distinguished when the wheat puts forth it fruit, and the tares does not.


That's the point I was making.




JLB

 

[smaller]

I do not understand what any of that means. And it sure didn't address my comment.

You're not sure if God in Christ is against sin and evil? I really don't know what to say. Tossing "eternal security" at the equations is probably not going to change the fact.

Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

I understand that the notions of eternal security without judgment is a nice notion, but it is that. A notion. Half a loaf. A one sided equation only.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

2 Corinthians 5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord,

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Vacating Gods Judgments, adverse, is not truthful to the scriptures.

If a believer is snarred by the devil, taken at the will of the devil, do we convey only eternal security to that person? Uh, no. There is more than just "the person" engaged in that exercise.

Freewill sees only man. That sight is not truthful to the scriptures. Scriptures, The Word, also sees our spiritual adversaries "in man."

Do we speak only eternal security to them also?

Never. Never will this happen. There are liars aplenty in the pulpits and the pews. There is a "need" to "try the spirits." Because there are also liars and murderers, present.

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Whoever vacates Gods Adverse Judgments against wicked spirits, is not telling the whole story, of what the flesh presently contains.

1 Corinthians 1:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

The argument about eternal security from Matthew is an example of not rightly dividing the word of truth, also. not comparing scripture with scripture. Matthew was written to the Jewish audience and not the Church, the body of Christ had not been established yet.

How can you reconcile 1 John 3:9 with the loss of salvation?
1 John 3:9 " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot (practice)sin, because he is born of God."

Whosoever is born of God- perfect participle- a condition that remains from the beginning.
To be born of God and to continue in sin is an impossibility

Genesis 39:9 " There is none greater in this house than I, neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?. Joseph's concern was that if he had sex with Potiphar's wife was sinning against God. God would know but it was possible that Potiphar would never find out.

A born again person does not practice sin even if no one is present because God's seed is in him.

 

[dirtfarmer]

You're not sure if God in Christ is against sin and evil? I really don't know what to say. Tossing "eternal security" at the equations is probably not going to change the fact.

Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

I understand that the notions of eternal security without judgment is a nice notion, but it is that. A notion. Half a loaf. A one sided equation only.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

2 Corinthians 5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord,

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Vacating Gods Judgments, adverse, is not truthful to the scriptures.

If a believer is snarred by the devil, taken at the will of the devil, do we convey only eternal security to that person? Uh, no. There is more than just "the person" engaged in that exercise.

Freewill sees only man. That sight is not truthful to the scriptures. Scriptures, The Word, also sees our spiritual adversaries "in man."

Do we speak only eternal security to them also?

Never. Never will this happen. There are liars aplenty in the pulpits and the pews. There is a "need" to "try the spirits." Because there are also liars and murderers, present.

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Whoever vacates Gods Adverse Judgments against wicked spirits, is not telling the whole story, of what the flesh presently contains.

1 Corinthians 1:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

In your reference to 2 Corinthians 5:10-11, while it is true that we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, there are other scriptures that need to be considered.
Romans 14:10-12 " But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost they set at nought thy brother? we shall all stand before the jufgment seat of Christ. For it is written, as I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God. So every one of us shall give account of himself to God." There is the Bema seat of Christ and also the great white throne judgment.

At the Bema seat those that are in Christ will be judged, not for entry into heaven, but for rewards: 1 Corinthians 3:12 -15 " Now if any man build upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built there upon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. " This is not the great white throne judgment.

It is only after the Bema seat of Christ and the 1000 year reign that the dead(lost) will be judged. That judgment is to determine the degree of punishment according to how many time the gospel has been rejected and there will be no one that there that was once saved and then lost their salvation.

You need to also include 1 Peter 4:18-19 " And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful creator."

 

[FreeGrace]

Same situation.

Wheat plant with no wheat is a weed.
JLB

No, it's a fruitless plant. Plants aren't weeds. Ever.

Weeds never produce fruit.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said: A wheat plant with no wheat is a weed.

No, ANY plant without fruit is STILL a plant. Always.

 

[smaller]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

In your reference to 2 Corinthians 5:10-11, while it is true that we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, there are other scriptures that need to be considered.
Romans 14:10-12 " But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost they set at nought thy brother? we shall all stand before the jufgment seat of Christ. For it is written, as I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God. So every one of us shall give account of himself to God." There is the Bema seat of Christ and also the great white throne judgment.

At the Bema seat those that are in Christ will be judged, not for entry into heaven, but for rewards: 1 Corinthians 3:12 -15 " Now if any man build upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built there upon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. " This is not the great white throne judgment.

Believers, to the person, are all quite entirely too generous with these workings in our flesh:

Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

God has not vacated adverse judgments to any of the above and never will.

Indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with(IN) us is NOT forensic. We can not "cut open" the flesh, the mind and the heart to "see" or observe these things. THEREFORE it is a working of spiritual adversity that Paul precisely termed "NO MORE I."

We do not stand as "believers only." We also stand with "NO MORE I" in our flesh, which is the working of adverse spiritual agents. Do we not stand in judgment against these workings? Of course we do, lest we be taken "captive" by them and blinded by them.

Do we then justify these workings? Never. It can't be done. No good work will or can justify the presence of evil. The presence of evil always stands, condemned, as does sin in the flesh.

Believers are never prone and do NOT like to see themselves standing under the condemnation of Christ, but we do:

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

There is no way to avoid this sight, for those "in Truth."

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

"Have" is a present tense matter. We are never made 'sinless' in the flesh. Not by works, not by confessions, not by repentance, not by the declarations of eternal life upon that working.

It is as Paul noted, "NO MORE I" that do it. But it does do what it does. That much is certain.

IF it was "no more I" as Paul noted, then where do we look to find understandings?

The Word exposes this. That these accounts are not "just and only" about man. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, 2 Cor. 12:7, Eph. 2:2, Eph. 6:11-12 and many many more do bring the the 'other party(s)' into these equations.

The notion that scriptures are only about "man" are not true. The spirit of disobedience also is IN operation, in the flesh. And it IS, as Paul said, "NO MORE I."

Do we vacate adverse judgments to that working? Never. Because it won't happen. The CONDEMNATION of Christ resides upon indwelling sin, and evil present.

 

[FreeGrace]

You're not sure if God in Christ is against sin and evil?

This is really a far out question. Where in the world did that come from? And you're STILL not explaining yourself. Just more and more ridiculous questions that have NO BEARING on eternal security.

I really don't know what to say.

Well, I know what you COULD and SHOULD say. Explain how eternal security is effected by your ideas of "thorn in the flesh".

Tossing "eternal security" at the equations is probably not going to change the fact.

No, the fact is that you're not going to explain yourself in any kind of rational terms.

btw, what "equations" are you referring to? Where did that come from? I thought your view was that this "evil or thorn in the flesh" is somehow related to eternal security. So please don't start throwing in new words into the mix. Let's just stay with what you've posted so far. And explain them, please.

I understand that the notions of eternal security without judgment is a nice notion, but it is that. A notion. Half a loaf. A one sided equation only.

So, please fill me in on the other side of this "equation" then. btw, everyone will be judged, both believer and unbeliever. So what's (so what) your point? Believers will be judged at the Bema in 2 Cor 5:10 and unbelievers at the Great White Throne in Rev 20:11-15.

So, what "side of the equation" have I missed here?

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

2 Corinthians 5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord,

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Vacating Gods Judgments, adverse, is not truthful to the scriptures.

And who has done that?

If a believer is snarred by the devil, taken at the will of the devil, do we convey only eternal security to that person? Uh, no. There is more than just "the person" engaged in that exercise.

Well, here we GO again!! Please, for heaven's sake, explain HOW a believer who has been snared by the devil, has no eternal security.

Freewill sees only man.

Your opinion is refuted by EVERY person I know who believe that man has free will. Free will refers to the available options that God gives to man. So your view of free will is wrong.

That sight is not truthful to the scriptures.

Your misunderstanding of free will is not at all truthful to the facts.

Scriptures, The Word, also sees our spiritual adversaries "in man."

So what? How do these so-called "spiritual adversaries in man" effect or relate to eternal security? This is the crux of your problem. You haven't yet explained any of this. Or answered any of my questions in trying to understand your very nebulous views.

Do we speak only eternal security to them also?

Your question is nebulous. Give me some context and I'll answer your question.

Whoever vacates Gods Adverse Judgments against wicked spirits, is not telling the whole story, of what the flesh presently contains.

Could you explain how one "vacates God's adverse judgment against wicked spirits"? That doesn't even make sense.

btw, we know from Matt 25:41 that Satan and all his fallen angels have already been judged, and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

But, just explain how one "vacates God's judgment".

{QUOTE]1 Corinthians 1:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.[/QUOTE]
I see that you like quoting verses, but I DON'T see how any of them relate to these "adverse spiritual judgments" and "spiritual adversaries" or eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

dirtfarmer here

The argument about eternal security from Matthew is an example of not rightly dividing the word of truth, also. not comparing scripture with scripture. Matthew was written to the Jewish audience and not the Church, the body of Christ had not been established yet.

How can you reconcile 1 John 3:9 with the loss of salvation?
1 John 3:9 " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot (practice)sin, because he is born of God."

Whosoever is born of God- perfect participle- a condition that remains from the beginning.
To be born of God and to continue in sin is an impossibility

Genesis 39:9 " There is none greater in this house than I, neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?. Joseph's concern was that if he had sex with Potiphar's wife was sinning against God. God would know but it was possible that Potiphar would never find out.

A born again person does not practice sin even if no one is present because God's seed is in him.

I'd like a clarification. Do you believe that a born again person continues to sin, regardless of frequency?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Believers, to the person, are all quite entirely too generous with these workings in our flesh:

Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

God has not vacated adverse judgments to any of the above and never will.

Indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with(IN) us is NOT forensic. We can not "cut open" the flesh, the mind and the heart to "see" or observe these things. THEREFORE it is a working of spiritual adversity that Paul precisely termed "NO MORE I."

We do not stand as "believers only." We also stand with "NO MORE I" in our flesh, which is the working of adverse spiritual agents. Do we not stand in judgment against these workings? Of course we do, lest we be taken "captive" by them and blinded by them.

Do we then justify these workings? Never. It can't be done. No good work will or can justify the presence of evil. The presence of evil always stands, condemned, as does sin in the flesh.

Believers are never prone and do NOT like to see themselves standing under the condemnation of Christ, but we do:

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

There is no way to avoid this sight, for those "in Truth."

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

"Have" is a present tense matter. We are never made 'sinless' in the flesh. Not by works, not by confessions, not by repentance, not by the declarations of eternal life upon that working.

It is as Paul noted, "NO MORE I" that do it. But it does do what it does. That much is certain.

IF it was "no more I" as Paul noted, then where do we look to find understandings?

The Word exposes this. That these accounts are not "just and only" about man. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, 2 Cor. 12:7, Eph. 2:2, Eph. 6:11-12 and many many more do bring the the 'other party(s)' into these equations.

The notion that scriptures are only about "man" are not true. The spirit of disobedience also is IN operation, in the flesh. And it IS, as Paul said, "NO MORE I."

Do we vacate adverse judgments to that working? Never. Because it won't happen. The CONDEMNATION of Christ resides upon indwelling sin, and evil present.

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

Colossians 3: 8-10 " But now ye also put off also these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communications out of your mouth, Lie not to one another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge, after the image of him that created him."

 

[smaller]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

Colossians 3: 8-10 " But now ye also put off also these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communications out of your mouth, Lie not to one another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge, after the image of him that created him."

I am not apt to be kind to indwelling sin and evil present. Nor will I be made a liar or a hypocrite by that working, by saying I don't have these identically as Paul stated for himself. Not interested.

Paul provided us Godly and Spiritual INsight toward these matters:

Galatians 5:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

We are to bear this "contrariness" toward our own flesh. Not as it's ally, but it's opposer. IF some see otherwise, then let them condone to their own perils.

 

[FreeGrace]

Believers, to the person, are all quite entirely too generous with these workings in our flesh:

Do you really not see how vague your comments are? What do you mean by being "too generous"? And what are these "workings in our flesh".

When I digest my food, I'd call that "workings in my flesh". And it results in a production.

So, hopefully now you'll see how much your statements are in need of more clear explanation.


God has not vacated adverse judgments to any of the above and never will.

Indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with(IN) us is NOT forensic.

What do you mean by "not forensic"? And how does this sin and evil present IN us effect eternal security?

We can not "cut open" the flesh, the mind and the heart to "see" or observe these things. THEREFORE it is a working of spiritual adversity that Paul precisely termed "NO MORE I."

What does Paul mean by "no more I"? That I am not present any more? Or what? Or, so what?

We do not stand as "believers only."

So, what do we stand AS?

We also stand with "NO MORE I" in our flesh, which is the working of adverse spiritual agents.

Your statements are getting weirder and weirder. If "I" isn't in our flesh, where is it? Where did it go?

Do we not stand in judgment against these workings? Of course we do, lest we be taken "captive" by them and blinded by them.

Could you provide some Scripture here, to support your claims?

Do we then justify these workings? Never. It can't be done. No good work will or can justify the presence of evil. The presence of evil always stands, condemned, as does sin in the flesh.

Well, so what? What does this have to do with eternal security?

Believers are never prone and do NOT like to see themselves standing under the condemnation of Christ, but we do:

No, we do NOT!! Christ took the condemnation that was for us. He bore OUR sin in Himself.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

There is no way to avoid this sight, for those "in Truth."

This verse in NO WAY supports your claim that believers "stand under the condemnation of Christ".

Here's what the Bible SAYS about it:
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Rom 5:1

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I don't think anyone on this thread thinks otherwise. That they don't have sin. Of course we do. Which is why we need to confess our sins: 1 Jn 1:9

"Have" is a present tense matter. We are never made 'sinless' in the flesh. Not by works, not by confessions, not by repentance, not by the declarations of eternal life upon that working.

I would just like to know how all this relates to eternal security.

It is as Paul noted, "NO MORE I" that do it. But it does do what it does. That much is certain.

What is certain is that your posts are not clear enough to follow and understand.

The Word exposes this. That these accounts are not "just and only" about man. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, 2 Cor. 12:7, Eph. 2:2, Eph. 6:11-12 and many many more do bring the the 'other party(s)' into these equations.

HUH?

The notion that scriptures are only about "man" are not true. The spirit of disobedience also is IN operation, in the flesh. And it IS, as Paul said, "NO MORE I."

What does it have to do with eternal security?

Do we vacate adverse judgments to that working?

This question has no meaning to me. I have no idea what you're trying to communicate.

The CONDEMNATION of Christ resides upon indwelling sin, and evil present.

So, how does this relate to eternal security?

 

[smaller]

This is really a far out question. Where in the world did that come from? And you're STILL not explaining yourself. Just more and more ridiculous questions that have NO BEARING on eternal security.

Where then is adverse judgment of God applied in your pat one sided formula? Does it exist?

We know it exists:

Romans 8:
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Do you hear only "eternal life?" I hear condemnation, quite clearly.

 

[FreeGrace]

I am not apt to be kind to indwelling sin and evil present. Nor will I be made a liar or a hypocrite by that working, by saying I don't have these identically as Paul stated for himself. Not interested.

Paul provided us Godly and Spiritual INsight toward these matters:

Galatians 5:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

We are to bear this "contrariness" toward our own flesh. Not as it's ally, but it's opposer. IF some see otherwise, then let them condone to their own perils.

How does any of this relate to eternal security?